burninchaoz, GallantPellham, donny the bull, and D[CLOSED]ES

[Namliam]

Simple solution--take deferred troops out of the game--just do not allow them--wake up CC--you could fix so many issues just not giving players def troops--If the miss a turn--tough on them--seems like the right thing to do but when has that ever meant much in the real world

Agree.

Thirded - will add as a suggestion

Totally agree!

[Royal Panda]

From the revised rules of this tournament.................

"As with deliberate missed turns / 'time outs', the opposing team will be automatically awarded a victory for the game in question if strong evidence is proivided."

Playing speed games while missing the turn in this very important tournament game, looks like plenty of evidence to me!

Guys this is a tournament issue, not a C&A issue. Under the rules of the tourny, DJ will have to award FOED the game, regardless of the end result. Not a site issue.

[jefjef]

Simple solution--take deferred troops out of the game--just do not allow them--wake up CC--you could fix so many issues just not giving players def troops--If the miss a turn--tough on them--seems like the right thing to do but when has that ever meant much in the real world

Agree.

Thirded - will add as a suggestion

Search the suggs rejected... CC, for whatever reason, thinks people that miss turns should rewarded and not be punished.

As for:
"As with deliberate missed turns / 'time outs', the opposing team will be automatically awarded a victory for the game in question if strong evidence is proivided."
The rules also specifically state that no spoils games do not apply. Right above where this came from...

[L M S]

Re: burninchaoz, GallantPellham, donny the bull, and DJ Tefl

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:33 pm
This situation was covered under the rules that jefjef quoted. You joined the tourney so you must abide by the rules posted. Moving this to CLOSED.

This thread is more about the INTENTIONAL turn miss than he game in question.........

Answer one question and you have your proof.
Why did/would Burnin intentionally miss the turn?

[patrickaa317]

Re: burninchaoz, GallantPellham, donny the bull, and DJ Tefl

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:33 pm
This situation was covered under the rules that jefjef quoted. You joined the tourney so you must abide by the rules posted. Moving this to CLOSED.

This thread is more about the INTENTIONAL turn miss than he game in question.........

Answer one question and you have your proof.
Why did/would Burnin intentionally miss the turn?

As the accuser it is on you to provide the answer to that and you failed to provide any evidence as to why he would intentionally miss his turn. There is no benefit to this given the map & settings.

If you feel there is an advantage, I'd suggest to have your team miss two or three turns to really get an edge on them. That'll show them.

[Namliam]

Re: burninchaoz, GallantPellham, donny the bull, and DJ Tefl

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:33 pm
This situation was covered under the rules that jefjef quoted. You joined the tourney so you must abide by the rules posted. Moving this to CLOSED.

This thread is more about the INTENTIONAL turn miss than he game in question.........

Answer one question and you have your proof.
Why did/would Burnin intentionally miss the turn?

As the accuser it is on you to provide the answer to that and you failed to provide any evidence as to why he would intentionally miss his turn. There is no benefit to this given the map & settings.

If you feel there is an advantage, I'd suggest to have your team miss two or three turns to really get an edge on them. That'll show them.

He was online, playing speed games before the miss happened. He CHOSE not to take the turn. As far as the advantage to the miss, well, that will be very clear in a few days.

[jefjef]

There are CC rules against deadbeating. No rules against missing an occasional turn.

If it was intentional you could call it cheap tactics and rate it that way but in this situation I would call an intentional miss dumb strategy.

[L M S]

Since this got sideways and became more about the particular game noted instead of the larger issue of intentionally missing turns and deferred troops (as intended)...this is also from the tourney rules:

Deadbeating
Deadbeating will not be considered to be a deliberate act unless evidence is provided to the contrary (e.g. evidence of the player turns being taken in other games when they could have taken place in the game in question). As with deliberate missed turns / 'time outs', the opposing team will be automatically awarded a victory for the game in question if strong evidence is proivided. .

[TheForgivenOne]

If it's about a Clan war (I assume), why not take it up with, you know, the Clan Mods?

[patrickaa317]

Re: burninchaoz, GallantPellham, donny the bull, and DJ Tefl

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:33 pm
This situation was covered under the rules that jefjef quoted. You joined the tourney so you must abide by the rules posted. Moving this to CLOSED.

This thread is more about the INTENTIONAL turn miss than he game in question.........

Answer one question and you have your proof.
Why did/would Burnin intentionally miss the turn?

As the accuser it is on you to provide the answer to that and you failed to provide any evidence as to why he would intentionally miss his turn. There is no benefit to this given the map & settings.

If you feel there is an advantage, I'd suggest to have your team miss two or three turns to really get an edge on them. That'll show them.

He was online, playing speed games before the miss happened. He CHOSE not to take the turn. As far as the advantage to the miss, well, that will be very clear in a few days.

Yes, it was proven that some speed games before the miss happened but there is still no evidence that he intentionally missed or gained an advantage by doing so. There is no requirement that you must play all your 24 hour games prior to playing a speed game; or that you must play your 24 hour games in order. Just because he was playing other games shows no proof that he intentionally missed.

As far as whether they win or not, there is no way to link the missed turn with a win; there is a lot more to each game. It has been decided by the majority of the community that there is no advantage to getting troops a round later than you normally would. If they lose, is it safe to say that this was completely filed in error and that 4 apologies should be issued asap?

[Leehar]

As for:
"As with deliberate missed turns / 'time outs', the opposing team will be automatically awarded a victory for the game in question if strong evidence is proivided."
The rules also specifically state that no spoils games do not apply. Right above where this came from...

Just being a Devil's advocate here, and no offense to DJ, but perhaps Foed also considers the addendum as a premeditated stance by the bofm member to leave a loophole in the rules so that they can experiment with such actions?

Also for those who've said in this thread or others that there's no perceivable advantage in missed turns, I've seen it happen myself that instead of deploying and creating a stack earlier where the opponents can work on trimming it, it sometimes helps to instead have that stack some in later where it's more immediately useful to attack the oppo, or if you want to create a sudden stack to defend a bonus you get later. (where instead of being defending it with a three when you get it, you can suddenly pop up with 6 or 9 that makes it impossible for the oppo. to break)

Then for those here or elsewhere who also suggested that if this tactic is so beneficial, you should try using it yourselves, shame on you. If the proponents of this C&A report see this action as an immoral and illegal act, then why would they themselves use such a detestable action to deliberately miss a turn?

And then finally someone else mentioned that the player in question has a 100% turn taken record? That must surely bring more scrutiny on him being able to play speed games yet miss a crucial clan turn?

[L M S]

The only (Chewbaca style) defense we have heard so far from the Mermaids on this is 'Shut up L M S, you are crazy.'

Lets just look at it again.
Burnin STARTED at least 3 speed games during the time in question. I haven't even looked yet to see if he took any OTHER turns.
So that means he logged on, went straight to his active games , decided NOT to take the turn in the Hive then went to the create a game menu, set up 3 different speed games, WAITED for them to fill, played through all three of them to the end, then KNOWING he had a turn up in at least the Hive game where time was running down, logged off and forgot to take the turn.
How long do we suppose that entire process took? Assuming he did NOTHING else on CC during the time in question (a full 24 hours).

The way I see it there are only a few explanations.
Either:
-He was scared to take the turn.
-Someone other than Burnin' was logged in to his account during the time in question and played some speeders but was uncomfortable taking the turns for him in a clan war/tourney game. (which is also against site rules)
-He was truly unavailable and his sitters failed and didn't realize that he was about to miss a crucial turn in a clan war/tourney game and no-one in his clan noticed, (that is going to decide the winner of the round) which also means that someone OTHER than Burnin played those speeders.
-He didnt have the time (we already know this is untrue).
-His team DECIDED to DELIBERATELY miss the turn in order to try and gain a tactical advantage in the game. Keep in mind, they don't have to win this game outright, all they have to do is PROLONG it past 25 rounds to get the win in the tourney. Since they have a player on the ropes this is TACTICALLY, the only reason to attempt this type of strategic stall tactic.

Lets look at what was done with the deferred troops turn.
Burnin deployed on himself then attacked team one, reducing his army/terit count therefore his next troop deployment, then dropped the deferred troops on the player near elimination in a far corner of the map...so instead of 4 extra troops this turn he will have 20 extra troops to help him stay alive instead of 8. Burnin WOULD NOT HAVE been able to accomplish this had he taken his turns, he would have had to choose between dropping his teammate and attacking or splitting his drop between the two. Even had he taken both turns and split his drop he would have been unable to take as many troops/terits from team one as he would have had fewer troops to drop in the first place, the fact not withstanding that orange may have been eliminated anyway by then. Again they don't have to win outright, all they have to do is prolong the game and since team 1 is currently winning the game this is their only shot at winning the match even though they are going to lose the game.

Lets have the game chat posted, unedited from the time in question...PROVE me wrong and I'll shut up, and since I know for a fact the the Fatty's religiously communicate turns and the like on SKYPE, lets see that too..unedited.

Not to mention the tourney rules also specifically state that deliberately missing a turn results in the game being awarded to the other team.

[TheForgivenOne]

Did you take my advice and bring it up with the Clan Directors? They would be the ones handing out the punishment in the ACC anyways.