TRAFALGAR [12.4.2012] QUENCHED (V65)

[cairnswk]

...
so answer me this - on your map cairns metro there is a region called cairnswk. is that a real region of cairns or did you slot yourself in there?

that where i live, there is no real place called cairnswk

and as for the previous comment by someone re: bombarding. i have found no issue with it in the 1v1 games that i play.

Good

also i have a Best At Beta tournament running on this map - pm the participants for some feedback.

I don't have time to do that, they can come into this forum like you have and leave feedback if they have anything to contribute.

[perchorin]

Just wanted to say that when I first saw this map, my reaction was "WTF" but the more I play it the more fantastic I realize it is. Fast becoming one of my favorites, thanks cairns!

[laughingcavalier]

Nice looking map & great to have a new challenge.
Playing no spoils team games, I think the bonuses are too hard to get. They discourage you from even trying to get a bonus. I would suggest:
- Make the neutrals in the flagships 2 armies not 3
- Reduce the number of ships you have to hold to get a bonus, and offer higher bonuses if more are held. Eg could be
- 4 ships of one nation in a division +2 bonus
- 6 ships of one nation in a division +3 bonus
etc

[cairnswk]

laughingcavalier, so far from what i can see you've only got two team games underway !
Don't you think you're request is a bit premature?

[cairnswk]

Just wanted to say that when I first saw this map, my reaction was "WTF" but the more I play it the more fantastic I realize it is. Fast becoming one of my favorites, thanks cairns!

Nice to hear perchorin. Thank-you.

[iancanton]

Playing no spoils team games, I think the bonuses are too hard to get. They discourage you from even trying to get a bonus.

of the first 5 quads games completed that have an 8-digit game number, at least one flagship bonus was held in each game and at least one line bonus was held in the 4 no spoils games but not the escalating one. both flagship and line bonuses were held by the eventual losers in 2 games. the second team to play won 4 out of 5.

from the above small sample of quads games, it appears that the line bonuses are mostly not ignored, the losing side can hold bonuses successfully (though we don't have enough evidence to say whether the latter is true for most games rather than just a minority) and the usual first turn advantage does not play a significant role. although it's possible to increase the lee line bonuses a touch, i don't think there's much wrong with the map if kept as is.

ian.

[Oneyed]

this map is amazing. very nice graphics, interesting theme and interesting gameplay.

just I play one game, so it is too soon say feedbacks. I will come later

Oneyed

[thenobodies80]

Cairnswk, what's your current thoughts about the map and the changes applied to it with the last update? Are you happy, there's something else you'd like to discuss, hear suggestions, feedback?
I'm starting a bunch of games to test it a bit more, let me know if there're gameplay aspects I should pay more attention while playing.

Btw is there someone who can give me an idea about how team games work out on this map? Any flaws? (I'm not a team games guy)

[cairnswk]

Up to this point 28/1/12 AEST
937 games started,
- 689 x 2 player, 282 for tournaments
- 16 x 3 player,
- 77 x 4 player, 66 for doubles, 3 doubles tournaments
- 21 x 5 player,
- 62 x 6 player, 27 for triples, 4 triples tournaments
- 9 x 7 player
- 93 x 8 player, 31 for quads, 2 quads tournaments

198 games no spoils
290 cloudy

Oneyed is still playing two games, so feedback will be slow...
Games have been slow to start this last month, possibly because this is not an easy map, and other maps arriving for BETA.

I'd leave it here for another month to see if there is any further reaction.

[Oneyed]

I finished one game and still play another two. my feelings are fine. I must say that hold bonus for any ships line is possible. and in each game was (are) held.

only one thing, what about to add attack route (with intermediary vessel) between Swiftsure and Minotaur or between Polyphemus and Minotaur. because there are five british ships a little out of game and easy held by secure only Agamemnon and Ajax.

the map is very nice done

Oneyed

[cairnswk]

I finished one game and still play another two. my feelings are fine. I must say that hold bonus for any ships line is possible. and in each game was (are) held.

only one thing, what about to add attack route (with intermediary vessel) between Swiftsure and Minotaur or between Polyphemus and Minotaur. because there are five british ships a little out of game and easy held by secure only Agamemnon and Ajax.

the map is very nice done

Oneyed

Thank-you Oneyed and thank-you for returning to comment.
These 5 British ships are yes, easily held, but only if you're not fighting battles on other fronts.
I won't rule this request possibility out completely, but as always, let's see if there is any other call for it.
Otherwise i would be reluctant to start moving graphics around on the request of one person.

[Oneyed]

These 5 British ships are yes, easily held, but only if you're not fighting battles on other fronts.
I won't rule this request possibility out completely, but as always, let's see if there is any other call for it.
Otherwise i would be reluctant to start moving graphics around on the request of one person.

then maybe Lee line 10 British +8 could be 10 British +9.

Oneyed

[cairnswk]

well tnb80...that game didn't last too long for you.

[thenobodies80]

Yeah

A thing, not related with that game but with others....
I've found a bit hard to go directly on the weather line side from the british ships to the french ones. The only connection point is passing through all the spanish troops (S. Trinidad) or moving to south in the Lee line (real Sovreigne - Temerarie/or Victory). Both require to me to take lot of regions before I'm able to attack the opponents that is "hidden" in the upper right corner with his spanish/french ships. And obviously also the opposite, from french to english ships.
Maybe it's not in this way for large games, but with 4 players i had the felling of a lack of a quick connection point....
On the contrary on the Lee side is much more easier to go around from a ship group to another.

What do you think?

[chapcrap]

i had the felling of a lack of a quick connection point....

I would agree with this, but I don't necessarily think that's bad.

It is difficult to maneuver around the map at times and it makes finishing a game take longer, but I think the expanse of it because you have to plan better. I see what you're saying, I just don't have a problem with it.

The same goes with Oneyed's thought about adding a ship between the Weather and Lee lines of the British on the left side of the map. So what if you can control 5 British ships by only holding 2 terts. You have to hold 9 for a bonus, so I don't really think that matters.

[thenobodies80]

I would agree with this, but I don't necessarily think that's bad.

It is difficult to maneuver around the map at times and it makes finishing a game take longer, but I think the expanse of it because you have to plan better. I see what you're saying, I just don't have a problem with it.

Yeah, it was just a feeling and I can also live without that connection. Afterall cairnswk rarely developes maps that can be played in just 5 turns

[cairnswk]

Yeah

A thing, not related with that game but with others....
I've found a bit hard to go directly on the weather line side from the british ships to the french ones. The only connection point is passing through all the spanish troops (S. Trinidad) or moving to south in the Lee line (real Sovreigne - Temerarie/or Victory). Both require to me to take lot of regions before I'm able to attack the opponents that is "hidden" in the upper right corner with his spanish/french ships. And obviously also the opposite, from french to english ships.
Maybe it's not in this way for large games, but with 4 players i had the felling of a lack of a quick connection point....
On the contrary on the Lee side is much more easier to go around from a ship group to another.

What do you think?

tnb80, i have to agree with you. it is quite difficult to attack between British and French in the Weather line.
I think i had done this for perception from what i had read at research time in putting this together.
Your insight i don't recall being discussed at the time of development either although i could be wrong...and i don't have time to recall pages to see of that is the case.

The pivoting point i would say would have to be the Leviathon, so that if that change was made, the connection
Leviathon <> Conqueror
would be replaced by a connection
Leviathon <> Victory Stern

What do you think about that connection? Let me know and i cando the changes quite quickly

These 5 British ships are yes, easily held, but only if you're not fighting battles on other fronts.
I won't rule this request possibility out completely, but as always, let's see if there is any other call for it.
Otherwise i would be reluctant to start moving graphics around on the request of one person.

then maybe Lee line 10 British +8 could be 10 British +9.

Oneyed

Oneyed. I would have say no to your request at this time since no-one else is calling for it. I am also incliined to agree with chapcrap's analysis on this one.

I would agree with this, but I don't necessarily think that's bad.

It is difficult to maneuver around the map at times and it makes finishing a game take longer, but I think the expanse of it because you have to plan better. I see what you're saying, I just don't have a problem with it.

Yeah, it was just a feeling and I can also live without that connection. Afterall cairnswk rarely developes maps that can be played in just 5 turns

What? Me develop hard maps? Common on, you jest Sire!

[cairnswk]

Files deleted and re-posted below

[thenobodies80]

I've alerted the players of all active games that the above version is going to be uploaded.
Files sent to lackattack!

[DiM]

the large image in the previous post is completely messed up.
it is supposed to be 1.040px × 719px and instead it is 1.023px × 707px. hence the whole image looks awfully blurry.

older version at the right size: http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/trafalgar/trafalgar_V61Lcdf.jpg
current version at the wrong size: http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/trafalgar/trafalgar_V65Lx.png

open them in different tabs and switch from one image to another to notice the huge difference.

hopefully i won't hear the usual ramblings like "most people don't care about a bit of blur or it's only a few pixels so why do you care"
the blurriness is extremely visible and i can't believe neither cairns nor tnb80 noticed.


PS: imagine how hideous the image will look after lack compresses it even further.

[thenobodies80]

I noticed it, infact I've deleted the PM....just I posted here before to check them...

Cairnswk can you fix the big version since it's smaller.Blurriness is for that reason DiM. When he exported the file probably resized it.
Thanks

[DiM]

.Blurriness is for that reason DiM. When he exported the file probably resized it.

yeah i know the blurriness is from the shrinking of the image. that's why i posted the sizes.
it could be from the way he exported the file but my money is on photobucket auto-resizing it

[thenobodies80]

It's more than a year that I don't use photobucket or any other hosting service so I don't know if they have that feature.

[cairnswk]

Change on version 65

The above discussion requires a change to the connections on the British Weather Line to facilitate a better connect between British and French ships on the western Weather Line.
Leviathan now connects to Victory Stern, not Conqueror

Click image to enlarge.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... r_V65S.png
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... r_V65L.png
XMLhttp://www.peeje.com/files/359452923/_Trafalgar_V65.xml

[DiM]

the file you uploaded is either deleted or you put the wrong link.
my cache is clear so it's not an error on my side.
here's what i see: