The SquirrelMasters' Quest (25/25) Night 1~A quick getaway

[spiesr]

Wow, so you are making your doctor claim on D1. Congrats, failtown, ya' did good! See where your strategies led you? Yet me, laying low is not an acceptable strategy. Great job...

On this site at least, seriously voting no lynch on Day 1 is not laying low. It will attract significant amounts of attention. If you hadn't done that and been so stubborn and argumentative, you probably could have got by with "laying low" to an extent. I mean there are at least a handful of players who didn't do anything to attract any sort of attention today and didn't get called out on it. At least partially because they didn't announce their intention to lay low.

Do I need to provide any more information? Hasn't failtown embarrassed themselves enough? Now I am stuck protecting myself since I have outed. So any other power role that outs, sorry! You are just screwed.

As others have said, in order for me to believe your claim I am going to need you to provide whatever flavor information you can without crossing a line into "quoting" your role pm.

You would think that would be the case with a game of this size. Not true here to my knowledge. I was not told about any others and it was not specified that I cannot target myself.

Depending on what your role is exactly I would not expect you to be informed if there were other players with similar powers or not.

either way someone needs to watch the general tonight. if he does get killed, at least we know who did it.
i think general should protect someone else, there will probably be somoene protecting general anyway, i don't think a big game like this only has 1 doctor.

While it is you are probably just trying to be helpful, I should let you know that I consider attempting to direct power role to be a scum tell or sorts. So, a small FOS for that, noted for future reference.

[zimmah]

Wow, so you are making your doctor claim on D1. Congrats, failtown, ya' did good! See where your strategies led you? Yet me, laying low is not an acceptable strategy. Great job...

On this site at least, seriously voting no lynch on Day 1 is not laying low. It will attract significant amounts of attention. If you hadn't done that and been so stubborn and argumentative, you probably could have got by with "laying low" to an extent. I mean there are at least a handful of players who didn't do anything to attract any sort of attention today and didn't get called out on it. At least partially because they didn't announce their intention to lay low.

Do I need to provide any more information? Hasn't failtown embarrassed themselves enough? Now I am stuck protecting myself since I have outed. So any other power role that outs, sorry! You are just screwed.

As others have said, in order for me to believe your claim I am going to need you to provide whatever flavor information you can without crossing a line into "quoting" your role pm.

You would think that would be the case with a game of this size. Not true here to my knowledge. I was not told about any others and it was not specified that I cannot target myself.

Depending on what your role is exactly I would not expect you to be informed if there were other players with similar powers or not.

either way someone needs to watch the general tonight. if he does get killed, at least we know who did it.
i think general should protect someone else, there will probably be somoene protecting general anyway, i don't think a big game like this only has 1 doctor.

While it is you are probably just trying to be helpful, I should let you know that I consider attempting to direct power role to be a scum tell or sorts. So, a small FOS for that, noted for future reference.

well in case he is the doctor, it's bad enough to lose a doctor N1 allready, if he goes down without anyone knowing who killed him, it's a total waste, (even tho i don't really believe him to begin with).

i don't think it hurt town much to help the noober power roles to pick a target, and the good ones will know who to target anyway.

with 25 people in the game, i'd feel a little lonely if noone visits me tonight tho, so i hope i'll have some company, as long as it's not one of those 4.

[trinicardinal]

Wow, so you are making your doctor claim on D1. Congrats, failtown, ya' did good! See where your strategies led you? Yet me, laying low is not an acceptable strategy. Great job...

A) You did not lay low - You got on like a General Idiot and drew attention to yourself as a result. You're still getting on like an idiot imo and there are a lot of people who do not believe you as a result. You are also receiving pressure in your other mafia game as a result of your "playing style" as you would put it although I would say it is more as a result of your rudeness.

B) A claimed Doc D1 is not the end of the world...or the game there are several ways that the Doc can be protected normally or that someone would see who killed you (if you are killed) so that at least 1 scum member would be found. I would assume that a game of this size has a busdriver, watcher and or tracker along with cop and doctor... or at least roles with some sort of traits adjusted for flavour. Quite frankly also I empathise with the feeling that although your are town you are a waste to us because of your manner. I'm hoping that you will work with us still.

C) Given the claim I now have to shift attention elsewhere.

spiesr was another one who seemed possible scum

Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.

in my ears that sounds like you have seen the list of possible player roles, which would mean you'd be one of the 4, because if i remember correctly those 4 were allowed to pick their role from a list.

I think you may onto something.

Grapple spiesr.

so Attack spiesr

Warning: If we get a counterclaim I will be forced to take another look at the general

[DoomYoshi]

Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.

in my ears that sounds like you have seen the list of possible player roles, which would mean you'd be one of the 4, because if i remember correctly those 4 were allowed to pick their role from a list.

I think you may onto something.

Grapple spiesr.

by DoomYoshi on Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:14 pm

You should not vote spiesr. He knows a lot about the setup in general. I am pretty sure he is town.

by DoomYoshi on Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:19 pm

??? wtf

My first intinct was to FOS him (that's my grapple). Then, I read and changed my mind. Then, when I started putting out my post to explain myself, I did a 180 again.

[DoomYoshi]

Anyways, about the general. Even if you are doctor, you said: "Congrats, failtown, ya' did good". That means that you don't think of yourself as town or as part of the town. Now I realize that you don't have to be scum to not identify with town. However, if you are the doctor, then you are part of town. Therefore, the failtown is yourself.

I am torn here. Part of me wants to kill you on principle so I can foe you and live my life free of your miserable existence. Part of me wants to not succumb to the emotional argument and think logically. However, thinking logically still results in your death. If you are a townie who is going to do nothing to help town, then you are just as good as scum.

So, now I will ask you a question I asked before:

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO HELP TOWN?

This time, if you ignore the question, it will be worse than skimming, it will be deliberate suicide.

[jonty125]

Just throwing my two cents in here but I say we accept General as doc as he could be useful later and return to the case on speiser; but if there is a counter claim then I'll not hesitate to lynch TheGeneral

[zimmah]

Just throwing my two cents in here but I say we accept General as doc as he could be useful later and return to the case on speiser; but if there is a counter claim then I'll not hesitate to lynch TheGeneral

who sais a game this size cannot have 2 docs?

[zimmah]

Just throwing my two cents in here but I say we accept General as doc as he could be useful later and return to the case on speiser; but if there is a counter claim then I'll not hesitate to lynch TheGeneral

who sais a game this size cannot have 2 docs?

and besides, if there's a doc, or another doc, counterclaiming will only make the situation worse, if he is mafia trying to trick the doc into claiming, you're only helping his cause.

[jonty125]

Just throwing my two cents in here but I say we accept General as doc as he could be useful later and return to the case on speiser; but if there is a counter claim then I'll not hesitate to lynch TheGeneral

who sais a game this size cannot have 2 docs?

and besides, if there's a doc, or another doc, counterclaiming will only make the situation worse, if he is mafia trying to trick the doc into claiming, you're only helping his cause.

Yes, but if the doc doesn't counterclaim and he ends up being pressurized to claim and claims doc we won't listen. String him up. And then General would die the following day after we believed him to be doc along (not that is a bad thing but it's just the series of events that would happen)

[Rodion]

I just did a little research and General's experience comes from Epicmafia, as the following link shows.

viewtopic.php?p=3492689#p3492689

And to whomever called me a newb earlier (I think it was hippo), kindly STFU. Or hit me up on EpicMafia to see what kind of a player I am.

I never voted General for suggesting a no-lynch because we do not have any evidence that he was attempting to harm town (for all I know, he could be town here and mafia in Soundman's, where he didn't suggest the no-lynch).

I still don't know how General thinks and I have no idea what are the acceptable strategies in Epic Mafia. General, if you can provide us with links proving that the no-lynch strategy is acceptable there (or at least that your account there endorses it when playing as town), it would be of extreme value.

The accusations based on rudeness are bullshit. I, for one, can get quite rude when I perceive people to be sucking heavily (check the latest Rodion BWs out there). In fact, if he can prove that the no-lynch option is legitimate on the other side, I'd say he's very much entitled to his failtown rants, as you've transformed an accepted strategy into a reason for him to claim without doing your proper research first. Saying you want someone to be lynched on principle because they are being rude is a great cop out for mafia to get a town power role lynched when they have no other reason to argue.

Fastposted by Zimmah: if he's mafia trying to trick the doctor into claiming, then I say the joke's on him. Trading 1 doctor for 25% of the mafia in a 25-player game seems awesome to me.

[MoB Deadly]

Found a post he made, which has his profile, but someone needs an account to actually view his profile.

http://www.epicmafia.com/topic/34994

[zimmah]

Found a post he made, which has his profile, but someone needs an account to actually view his profile.

http://www.epicmafia.com/topic/34994

he has karma -4 which probably means he wasn't very popular out there, the games show 29 losses, 17 wins and 1 suicide, roles, (i am assuming the first number is games won as that role, the second number the number of times he played that role, i just made an account to look at the website, the website looks nice to me btw, i might try a few games sometime)

3/4 cop
2/3 jester (called fool there)
5/11 mafia
6/17 town
1/5 doctor (makes me believe he was quite a bad doctor there)
0/1 Yakuza (mafia-aligned person who can sacrifice himself to convert someone else to mafia)
0/2 vigilante
0/3 hooker (sort of a roleblocker)

apperantly the general left because he was mad about the lack of updates on epic-mafia, altho most of the voters in the poll seem to disagree (which does not necessarily proof him wrong, because people who agree with him tend to leave the site, while people who tend to disagree are fanboys of the site, which obviously be more active at the game, so a poll like that is doomed to get a lot of negative votes)

sadly the website won't allow me to review his games, for some reason the website thinks i want to join the game and tells me i should have played at least 4 unranked games to 'play' a ranked game, while i just tried to watch the logs.

[sensfan]

Doc claim? Huh. Do we believe him?

-sens

[safariguy5]

I just did a little research and General's experience comes from Epicmafia, as the following link shows.

viewtopic.php?p=3492689#p3492689

And to whomever called me a newb earlier (I think it was hippo), kindly STFU. Or hit me up on EpicMafia to see what kind of a player I am.

I never voted General for suggesting a no-lynch because we do not have any evidence that he was attempting to harm town (for all I know, he could be town here and mafia in Soundman's, where he didn't suggest the no-lynch).

I still don't know how General thinks and I have no idea what are the acceptable strategies in Epic Mafia. General, if you can provide us with links proving that the no-lynch strategy is acceptable there (or at least that your account there endorses it when playing as town), it would be of extreme value.

The accusations based on rudeness are bullshit. I, for one, can get quite rude when I perceive people to be sucking heavily (check the latest Rodion BWs out there). In fact, if he can prove that the no-lynch option is legitimate on the other side, I'd say he's very much entitled to his failtown rants, as you've transformed an accepted strategy into a reason for him to claim without doing your proper research first. Saying you want someone to be lynched on principle because they are being rude is a great cop out for mafia to get a town power role lynched when they have no other reason to argue.

Fastposted by Zimmah: if he's mafia trying to trick the doctor into claiming, then I say the joke's on him. Trading 1 doctor for 25% of the mafia in a 25-player game seems awesome to me.

I would like to disagree with you here about attitude. Certainly, being a very negative player isn't enough to convict in and of itself, but I interpret ad hominem attacks as someone who is backed into a corner and decides that he has nothing else to lose. It makes me less willing to listen to his defense, and it adds nothing productive to the discussion.

I too would like to hear where theGeneral got his strategy from.

Specifically:
What happens if the cop doesn't get a guilty result Day 2,3, 4....?
If we rely on night investigations, how do we find the Mafia Godfather?
What are we going to do if the cop is killed?

[ghostly447]

In my opinion (and it is just an opinion) here is what I think will happen depending on what we decide:

Lynch him now, we may lose a doctor. But 1. We dont have to worry about any other doctors counterclaiming (I believe there are more than 1) due to skimming and not seeing "A counterclaim would be bad" and 2. We dont have to listen to him rant.

OR

We leave him. Several things could go wrong. Someone skimming decides they will counterclaim, and now mafia or not, he and the 4 adventurers know who 2 of our potential doctors are. Kill them consecutive nights (because lets be honest, even if someone had the power to defend him, who would after his disrespect. I am all about respect and I MYSELF would have to think long and hard about it) and now 2 of our medics are gone. ON TOP OF THIS, he may prove to be mafia. If he lived through the night, we would have to debate whether it was him being defended, or if he was mafia. Could lead to us lynching him next turn, but the damage is done and he potentially takes down a PR N1.

Just my opinion. This is my first major game, but the way I see it, half of us hate him already. His attitude of "I will just protect myself and no one else" isnt helping anyone.

[TheGeneral2112]

On em you can create 4 additional linked accounts called alts. Also, only ranked games show in stats. I have played hundereds of unranked. To play uperteir games, you must spend 10 karma and points to play. I simply got negged after spending all my karma. But, as far as strategy, it is different for every setup, but you don't Lynch on day 1, deal with cop ccs on day 2, and wait for a confirmed power role to begin leading a semi random Lynch. If one cop is super scummy, you can Lynch between CVS, but usually a good idea to no lynch again.

With all of my accounts averaged I have a 60 percent win rate.

[safariguy5]

On em you can create 4 additional linked accounts called alts. Also, only ranked games show in stats. I have played hundereds of unranked. To play uperteir games, you must spend 10 karma and points to play. I simply got negged after spending all my karma. But, as far as strategy, it is different for every setup, but you don't Lynch on day 1, deal with cop ccs on day 2, and wait for a confirmed power role to begin leading a semi random Lynch. If one cop is super scummy, you can Lynch between CVS, but usually a good idea to no lynch again.

With all of my accounts averaged I have a 60 percent win rate.

So we basically play follow the cop?

Easily negated by mafia roleblockers and framers, and advocating a semi-random lynch is no different from what's going on now, except that your strategy involves more townies claiming, giving mafia information.

How does one confirm a power role exactly?

So basically, you're waiting for cops to get counterclaimed, and then picking between one of them to lynch. Assuming no cops are counterclaimed, then no lynch again.

So not only is the probability of catching mafia almost as low as it is Day 2 as it is Day 1, you're also encouraging the cops to claim, hoping mafia is going to counterclaim them. If that doesn't happen, then either semi-random lynch or no lynch again.

So mafia roleblockers could easily negate this, we're going to be down at least 1 townie due to Night 1 kill, and you've shown mafia exactly who the cops are. I don't see how this is a winning strategy. Town basically passively sits there and waits for cops to deliver guilty results, while the mafia knows exactly who to roleblock and picks the rest of us off one by one.

[zimmah]

something doesn't add up.

according to your strategy (which honestly only leads to failure) it's a benefit for town to have a claimed and confirmed power role as early as day 2, yet, you're furious that we made you claim doctor (which is a power role too) by your logic, shouldn't you have been happy to take the lead, now that you're a claimed power role?

[spiesr]

according to your strategy (which honestly only leads to failure) it's a benefit for town to have a claimed and confirmed power role as early as day 2, yet, you're furious that we made you claim doctor (which is a power role too) by your logic, shouldn't you have been happy to take the lead, now that you're a claimed power role?

Well, not every power role would be equal in that consideration. Having a claimed doc doesn't do you any good as a doc action will almost never catch a scum, whereas a handful of other roles could.

[safariguy5]

according to your strategy (which honestly only leads to failure) it's a benefit for town to have a claimed and confirmed power role as early as day 2, yet, you're furious that we made you claim doctor (which is a power role too) by your logic, shouldn't you have been happy to take the lead, now that you're a claimed power role?

Well, not every power role would be equal in that consideration. Having a claimed doc doesn't do you any good as a doc action will almost never catch a scum, whereas a handful of other roles could.

Right, but either way, Follow the Cop is a very brittle strategy that can easily be derailed by a number of things. Roleblocking is the main thing, but busdriving, framing, and cop sanity all can lead to bad results.

Not to mention that it still doesn't reliably find the Godfather.

[Victor Sullivan]

according to your strategy (which honestly only leads to failure) it's a benefit for town to have a claimed and confirmed power role as early as day 2, yet, you're furious that we made you claim doctor (which is a power role too) by your logic, shouldn't you have been happy to take the lead, now that you're a claimed power role?

Well, not every power role would be equal in that consideration. Having a claimed doc doesn't do you any good as a doc action will almost never catch a scum, whereas a handful of other roles could.

Right, but either way, Follow the Cop is a very brittle strategy that can easily be derailed by a number of things. Roleblocking is the main thing, but busdriving, framing, and cop sanity all can lead to bad results.

Not to mention that it still doesn't reliably find the Godfather.

Though I'm not so sure one can reliably say there is a Godfather in this game, as the leader, the priest, I wouldn't expect to come up as a baddie upon investigation

-Sully

[zimmah]

according to your strategy (which honestly only leads to failure) it's a benefit for town to have a claimed and confirmed power role as early as day 2, yet, you're furious that we made you claim doctor (which is a power role too) by your logic, shouldn't you have been happy to take the lead, now that you're a claimed power role?

Well, not every power role would be equal in that consideration. Having a claimed doc doesn't do you any good as a doc action will almost never catch a scum, whereas a handful of other roles could.

Right, but either way, Follow the Cop is a very brittle strategy that can easily be derailed by a number of things. Roleblocking is the main thing, but busdriving, framing, and cop sanity all can lead to bad results.

Not to mention that it still doesn't reliably find the Godfather.

Though I'm not so sure one can reliably say there is a Godfather in this game, as the leader, the priest, I wouldn't expect to come up as a baddie upon investigation

-Sully

lol is sully serious?

[Victor Sullivan]

Yes, you just misinterpreted the use of "as" in that sentence.

-Sully

[chapcrap]

Yes, you just misinterpreted the use of "as" in that sentence.

-Sully

I don't think it was misinterpreted. Maybe misused...

Also, I don't hate General. Someone said something about everyone hating General. That's not the case. I'm not voting because of his attitude. I was voting because of the fact that he was acting like a scum. However, to all the people that are still talking about lynching a claimed doctor on Day 1: WTF?!?!

He has claimed doctor, don't lynch him without a counter claim. You are all talking about how he's got bad strategy (which I can't argue with), but how is lynching a doctor good strategy? Ridiculous.

[drunkmonkey]

Not much to add, other than retreat*. I disagree with General's strategy, and I loathe his attitude, but it doesn't mean we lynch a doc over it.


*Have we established that "retreat" = "unvote", and "surrender" = "vote no lynch"? If not, unvote just in case.