M:tG Planeswalker mafia - Town wins!

[jgordon1111]

Thanks Rodion,food for thought and edoc responding in the positive about your response is helpful.

[Rodion]

Tail, still on the fence?

We need to spike the activity in here to avoid a deadline being established. =/

[edocsil]

Yeah, a lag in activity is only going to end one way for you.

[Victor Sullivan]

Tail, still on the fence?

We need to spike the activity in here to avoid a deadline being established. =/

Vote Tails

Get off the fence, Garfield!

-Sully

[Iron Butterfly]

Tail, still on the fence?

We need to spike the activity in here to avoid a deadline being established. =/

Vote Tails

Get off the fence, Garfield!

-Sully

you doing that cause you beleive hes guilty?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Tail, still on the fence?

We need to spike the activity in here to avoid a deadline being established. =/

Honestly, that line of questioning leads me down the cursed road of wifom. I know you to be an intelligent and crafty player. You fooled nearly everyone in Terminator, and even though I was town and didn't believe you, I must admit it was beautifully executed. Oh! the lament of inactivity on my part!

I'm faced with the two possible scenarios I mentioned earlier. I find it unlikely that you would bring attention to yourself early on, as scum, yet I also find it unlikely that your intentions were pure, as detailed in my previous post. The worst part about your defense is that you believe scum would fakeclaim masons. Here's why this is false:

• If a scum fakeclaimed mason and named another scum as his partner, he's effectively killed off half his team in a game this size, should info come out that he is indeed scum.
• The only way I can see that you would believe this is if the initial claim(er?) was the GF or otherwise investigative proof. Yet he must name his partner, whom is unlikely to also be investigative proof. Again, this kills half the mafia.

You can't take such liberties as scum; mason is one of the shittiest fakeclaims for scum. So I've come to questions your reasons for using this as a defense.

People blaming me for "wrecking 2 town power role claims" does not make any sense because:
a) Shield wrecked his claim before I did anything and I can't take blame for that
b) Shield and Edocsil were not confirmed when I asked my question (newsflash: they are STILL not confirmed and could both be mafia)

a) true
b) irrelevant. He only provided his claim, and then exposed edoc upon your request, which is the deal here. We had no actual case on shield and his claim was mason which I believe to be a shit fakeclaim. Really he shouldn't have had to confirm. That's what cops and other such fancy roles are for.

I mean, you can try and claim rolefishing isn't that harmful and you single-handedly won a game doing so, but we both know that isn't the case. What if, with your question, you outed the doctor? (here's some backdrop info-- in Mr. Squirrel's Briarsburg game, I believe there was a whole group of people who knew who doctors were and such, to protect them or something iirc.)

Your claim of jailkeep is ideal. You've got a nice double-edged sword there in that role because of its abilities; you can't be accused of trying to make yourself necessary to town survival, which is a good play.

vote Rodion

I only do so because I believe you're attempting to discredit others to save your skin; to distract, which is classic scum tactics. You say that edoc and shield are unconfirmed, yet logically this doesn't make sense with their claim. I know edoc to be too smart to accept the mason as a scum fakeclaim. Let's pose this hypothetical: they are scum (edoc and shield), and shield has just exposed edoc as his partner. What would you do in edoc's shoes? I would say he's (shield) crazy, and that I don't know what he's talking about. When he is lynched, you can say "see, he is scum trying for a last-ditch free lynch." By this I mean, in this hypothetical situation, that edoc is scum, yet sold out shield so that he can appear as an innocent townie painted as a patsie. (f*ck, I hope that makes sense) This is at least more logical then accepting the fakeclaim which can be easily falsified.

-Tails

[slowreactor]

FYI I won't have much internet access over Thanksgiving break, at least not until Sunday, so I won't be able to update as much until then. Just a heads-up.

[freezie]

I know edoc to be too smart to accept the mason as a scum fakeclaim. Let's pose this hypothetical: they are scum (edoc and shield), and shield has just exposed edoc as his partner. What would you do in edoc's shoes? I would say he's (shield) crazy, and that I don't know what he's talking about. When he is lynched, you can say "see, he is scum trying for a last-ditch free lynch." By this I mean, in this hypothetical situation, that edoc is scum, yet sold out shield so that he can appear as an innocent townie painted as a patsie. (f*ck, I hope that makes sense) This is at least more logical then accepting the fakeclaim which can be easily falsified.

-Tails

I am French and I understood, so yea it makes sense.

[wildwilliam]

vote rodin

I do not see the point in this role, and seems non beneficial.

[Rodion]

vote rodin

I do not see the point in this role, and seems non beneficial.

Quick question before I adress Tail's post later.

William, what exactly do you think I'll flip after/when I die?

In case you don't know what a flip is, I'll give you examples from the official Futurama Mafia. Each "line" is a different flip.

5. Talapus- Nibbler, Town Sane Cop killed Night 1
14. nagerous- Dr. Zoidberg, Town CPR Doc killed Night 1
8. freezie- Lrrr, Mafia Goon lynched Day 2
10. kwanton- Elzar, Mafia Goon killed Night 2
2. /- Santa Claws, Third Party Serial Killer lynched Day 3
11. AndyDufresne- Cubert Farnsworth, Vanilla Townie killed Night 3
15. Commander9- Bender, Town Thief (Flavor Cop) lynched Day 4
9. Haggis_McMutton- Leela, Town Busdriver/Lover killed Night 4
16. TheSaxlad replaced by drunkmonkey- Fry, Town Lover killed Night 4
1. Metsfanmax- Amy Wong, Vanilla Townie lynched Day 5
7. Fircoal replaced by God Emperor Q- Mom, Mafia Godfather lynched Day 6

[wildwilliam]

vote rodin

I do not see the point in this role, and seems non beneficial.

Quick question before I adress Tail's post later.

William, what exactly do you think I'll flip after/when I die?

In case you don't know what a flip is, I'll give you examples from the official Futurama Mafia. Each "line" is a different flip.

5. Talapus- Nibbler, Town Sane Cop killed Night 1
14. nagerous- Dr. Zoidberg, Town CPR Doc killed Night 1
8. freezie- Lrrr, Mafia Goon lynched Day 2
10. kwanton- Elzar, Mafia Goon killed Night 2
2. /- Santa Claws, Third Party Serial Killer lynched Day 3
11. AndyDufresne- Cubert Farnsworth, Vanilla Townie killed Night 3
15. Commander9- Bender, Town Thief (Flavor Cop) lynched Day 4
9. Haggis_McMutton- Leela, Town Busdriver/Lover killed Night 4
16. TheSaxlad replaced by drunkmonkey- Fry, Town Lover killed Night 4
1. Metsfanmax- Amy Wong, Vanilla Townie lynched Day 5
7. Fircoal replaced by God Emperor Q- Mom, Mafia Godfather lynched Day 6

you keep bringing up other mafia games. who cares about other mafia games. that has nothing to do with this game or this setup. no one knows what roles are in this game, and just because something was one way in another game doe not mean it is the same in this game. this to me also seems like you are trying to hard and are hiding something. why don't you go on ahead an address tails post now.

[Rodion]

The game I mentioned is irrelevant. It just occured to me that you are new and might not know what a flip is, so I provided you examples to keep you from dodging the question without actually adressing it, but you did it anyway! How about you give an answer? You can disregard the model from the other game I was nice enough to give you, but I still want an answer.

I'll adress Tail's post later when I have the time. It is much bigger and obviously more well thought than yours, so it will take more time and effort to reply.

[wildwilliam]

obviously more well thought than yours, so it will take more time and effort to reply.

ok prick

[Rodion]

Sigh.

If you go back to my original post asking you the question, you'll see the words "in case you don't know what a flip is". It clearly shows that I only referenced another game to give you a sample of the answer I was asking you to give. Yes, that WAS me being nice to you. Logic dictates that in case you DO know what a flip is, you can simply disregard the rest of the post and simply answer the question that was asked. Your answer WAS stupid because you argued a poor reason to be exempted from answering (the answer being "screw other games, this game can be different than other games").

Refusing to answer a question with no legitimate reasoning makes you more likely to be lynched in the future. This is the last warning I give you.

[wildwilliam]

Sigh.

If you go back to my original post asking you the question, you'll see the words "in case you don't know what a flip is". It clearly shows that I only referenced another game to give you a sample of the answer I was asking you to give. Yes, that WAS me being nice to you. Logic dictates that in case you DO know what a flip is, you can simply disregard the rest of the post and simply answer the question that was asked. Your answer WAS stupid because you argued a poor reason to be exempted from answering (the answer being "screw other games, this game can be different than other games").

Refusing to answer a question with no legitimate reasoning makes you more likely to be lynched in the future. This is the last warning I give you.

you have hand enough time to write all this BS, but not answer Tail. Answer the questions posted to you before you start telling others to do the same.

[Rodion]

Tail, still on the fence?

We need to spike the activity in here to avoid a deadline being established. =/

Honestly, that line of questioning leads me down the cursed road of wifom. I know you to be an intelligent and crafty player. You fooled nearly everyone in Terminator, and even though I was town and didn't believe you, I must admit it was beautifully executed. Oh! the lament of inactivity on my part!

If that makes you feel any better, I think that defense was raised back in Memebase when Safari claimed a false positive guilty on me in order to help people vote for my lynch. The boy who cried wolf? =/

I'm faced with the two possible scenarios I mentioned earlier. I find it unlikely that you would bring attention to yourself early on, as scum, yet I also find it unlikely that your intentions were pure, as detailed in my previous post. The worst part about your defense is that you believe scum would fakeclaim masons. Here's why this is false:

• If a scum fakeclaimed mason
  
  Stop right there. At the point I asked my question to Shield, he had not named his partner. That means that I could have potentially caught Shield as scum in 2 different manners:
  
  1 - Shield refuses to give a name, suspicion arises after someone (that someone would be me, by the way) threatens to lynch him unless he reveals his partner and yet he refuses to do so. He is lynched for failing to back his original claim.
  2 - Shield gives a name and the named player actually denies the liaison. Evident fakeclaim exposed, correct D1 lynch, no questions asked.
  
  and named another scum as his partner, he's effectively killed off half his team in a game this size, should info come out that he is indeed scum.
  
  You see, Shield became more likely to be town AFTER he named his partner. My plan's effect was not only to link 2 people (in this case, Shield and Edocsil), but also to see if the failure to have a link established (either by Shield refusing to cooperate or by the claimed partner denying the link) would instantly get Shield lynched.
  
• The only way I can see that you would believe this is if the initial claim(er?) was the GF or otherwise investigative proof. Yet he must name his partner, whom is unlikely to also be investigative proof. Again, this kills half the mafia.

That's a double-edged sword. If the godfather is investigated, 2 scum are falsely confirmed as town and are likely to win the game unless there is a Serial Killer out there. If the goon is investigated, 2 scum are caught. Conceptually, the double-edged sword has both a good and a bad side.

You can't take such liberties as scum; mason is one of the shittiest fakeclaims for scum. So I've come to questions your reasons for using this as a defense.

People blaming me for "wrecking 2 town power role claims" does not make any sense because:
a) Shield wrecked his claim before I did anything and I can't take blame for that
b) Shield and Edocsil were not confirmed when I asked my question (newsflash: they are STILL not confirmed and could both be mafia)

a) true
b) irrelevant. He only provided his claim, and then exposed edoc upon your request, which is the deal here. We had no actual case on shield and his claim was mason which I believe to be a shit fakeclaim. Really he shouldn't have had to confirm. That's what cops and other such fancy roles are for.

I mean, you can try and claim rolefishing isn't that harmful and you single-handedly won a game doing so, but we both know that isn't the case. What if, with your question, you outed the doctor? (here's some backdrop info-- in Mr. Squirrel's Briarsburg game, I believe there was a whole group of people who knew who doctors were and such, to protect them or something iirc.)

It was a risk I thought was worth taking. As far as the doctor bit, they did not have to claim any possible extra roles (cop, doc, whatever), just confirm they share the same alignment for future reference. Edocsil then freaked out and in his meatshield post made it clear that he did not have any other powers, but that can't be put on my tab either.

Your claim of jailkeep is ideal. You've got a nice double-edged sword there in that role because of its abilities; you can't be accused of trying to make yourself necessary to town survival, which is a good play.

My role is what my role is.

vote Rodion

I only do so because I believe you're attempting to discredit others to save your skin; to distract, which is classic scum tactics. You say that edoc and shield are unconfirmed, yet logically this doesn't make sense with their claim. I know edoc to be too smart to accept the mason as a scum fakeclaim. Let's pose this hypothetical: they are scum (edoc and shield), and shield has just exposed edoc as his partner. What would you do in edoc's shoes? I would say he's (shield) crazy, and that I don't know what he's talking about. When he is lynched, you can say "see, he is scum trying for a last-ditch free lynch." By this I mean, in this hypothetical situation, that edoc is scum, yet sold out shield so that he can appear as an innocent townie painted as a patsie. (f*ck, I hope that makes sense) This is at least more logical then accepting the fakeclaim which can be easily falsified.

Again, wait a second. We didn't know Edocsil of all people would be the one named by Shield. It could be a newbie. It could be someone that actually didn't despise Shield. As I mentioned before, it could be that Shield would flat out refuse to give his partner away.

Now, if I were in Edoc's shoes (assuming Edoc is mafia), my choices were between letting Shield hang and assuredly losing 1 partner or backing him up and running future risks, which is the equivalent of a "double or nothing" bet. My decision would depend on a myriad of things:
a) are either of us a godfather? Is the godfather also bulletproof?
b) do we have a lawyer or a busdriver?
c) how likely is this game to have a Serial Killer?

I can't answer the question because I have no idea what mafia power roles are out there to possibly make the double or nothing bet a good one.


-Tails

Rodion, in blue

[Rodion]

Sigh.

If you go back to my original post asking you the question, you'll see the words "in case you don't know what a flip is". It clearly shows that I only referenced another game to give you a sample of the answer I was asking you to give. Yes, that WAS me being nice to you. Logic dictates that in case you DO know what a flip is, you can simply disregard the rest of the post and simply answer the question that was asked. Your answer WAS stupid because you argued a poor reason to be exempted from answering (the answer being "screw other games, this game can be different than other games").

Refusing to answer a question with no legitimate reasoning makes you more likely to be lynched in the future. This is the last warning I give you.

you have hand enough time to write all this BS, but not answer Tail. Answer the questions posted to you before you start telling others to do the same.

You're up.

[wildwilliam]

Sigh.

If you go back to my original post asking you the question, you'll see the words "in case you don't know what a flip is". It clearly shows that I only referenced another game to give you a sample of the answer I was asking you to give. Yes, that WAS me being nice to you. Logic dictates that in case you DO know what a flip is, you can simply disregard the rest of the post and simply answer the question that was asked. Your answer WAS stupid because you argued a poor reason to be exempted from answering (the answer being "screw other games, this game can be different than other games").

Refusing to answer a question with no legitimate reasoning makes you more likely to be lynched in the future. This is the last warning I give you.

you have hand enough time to write all this BS, but not answer Tail. Answer the questions posted to you before you start telling others to do the same.

You're up.

you really said nothing new.

Anyways. I believe you will flip scum. Which is why my vote stands.

[Rodion]

Interesting.

How did your delay to answer such a simple question with such a simple answer enhance the town's odds of winning the game?

[freezie]

Sigh.

If you go back to my original post asking you the question, you'll see the words "in case you don't know what a flip is". It clearly shows that I only referenced another game to give you a sample of the answer I was asking you to give. Yes, that WAS me being nice to you. Logic dictates that in case you DO know what a flip is, you can simply disregard the rest of the post and simply answer the question that was asked. Your answer WAS stupid because you argued a poor reason to be exempted from answering (the answer being "screw other games, this game can be different than other games").

Refusing to answer a question with no legitimate reasoning makes you more likely to be lynched in the future. This is the last warning I give you.

you have hand enough time to write all this BS, but not answer Tail. Answer the questions posted to you before you start telling others to do the same.

Whoa whoa whoa. William,you are beeing very disrespctful here and quite honestly, there is no need to be. So keep these harsh words for when they will be needed, which should be not at all. To answer your original question, Jailkeeper is not exactly a common role, but seen once in a while and can work as either a roleblocker or good doc IF used correctly. A hard to use role, really.

[wildwilliam]

Sigh.

If you go back to my original post asking you the question, you'll see the words "in case you don't know what a flip is". It clearly shows that I only referenced another game to give you a sample of the answer I was asking you to give. Yes, that WAS me being nice to you. Logic dictates that in case you DO know what a flip is, you can simply disregard the rest of the post and simply answer the question that was asked. Your answer WAS stupid because you argued a poor reason to be exempted from answering (the answer being "screw other games, this game can be different than other games").

Refusing to answer a question with no legitimate reasoning makes you more likely to be lynched in the future. This is the last warning I give you.

you have hand enough time to write all this BS, but not answer Tail. Answer the questions posted to you before you start telling others to do the same.

Whoa whoa whoa. William,you are beeing very disrespctful here and quite honestly, there is no need to be. So keep these harsh words for when they will be needed, which should be not at all. To answer your original question, Jailkeeper is not exactly a common role, but seen once in a while and can work as either a roleblocker or good doc IF used correctly. A hard to use role, really.

no intention to offend, but I do not like be threatened, which you should agree is completely unnecessary as well.

[pancakemix]

Can I ask a few questions here? What good is there in shield NOT revealing his partner? And what bad is there if he does? This is an NV game, right? The argument that we're more likely to lose a power role tonight is a fallacy. No shit we're going to lose a power role. On the other hand, if he doesn't tell us and he dies somehow we never know who his mason partner is and lose potential for a townie whose insight we can trust unconditionally.

I put forward that Rodion actually did a GOOD thing by asking for shield's mason partner. I see no reason why he should be persecuted the way he is right now.

[Iron Butterfly]

Can I ask a few questions here? What good is there in shield NOT revealing his partner? And what bad is there if he does? This is an NV game, right? The argument that we're more likely to lose a power role tonight is a fallacy. No shit we're going to lose a power role. On the other hand, if he doesn't tell us and he dies somehow we never know who his mason partner is and lose potential for a townie whose insight we can trust unconditionally.

I put forward that Rodion actually did a GOOD thing by asking for shield's mason partner. I see no reason why he should be persecuted the way he is right now.

If Rodion is lynched and turns out to be Mafia I wonder what Doom Yoshi would say about your opinion.

[rdsrds2120]

I've been reading, and tbh, I can see Rodion going either way here, because both make sense. Now I just don't know what to do =\.

-rd

[Rodion]

Can I ask a few questions here? What good is there in shield NOT revealing his partner? And what bad is there if he does? This is an NV game, right? The argument that we're more likely to lose a power role tonight is a fallacy. No shit we're going to lose a power role. On the other hand, if he doesn't tell us and he dies somehow we never know who his mason partner is and lose potential for a townie whose insight we can trust unconditionally.

I put forward that Rodion actually did a GOOD thing by asking for shield's mason partner. I see no reason why he should be persecuted the way he is right now.

If Rodion is lynched and turns out to be Mafia I wonder what Doom Yoshi would say about your opinion.

Iron, this is the kind of comment you hold until Yoshi posts. You had a nice chance of catching Yoshi in an inconsistency by waiting to see how he would react to PCM, but once you publicly called him out that immediately got much harder.

For further record, next time an opportunity like this arises you should patiently wait for the person under scrutiny to voice their opinions (or at least post in the thread once, acknowledging he read the post and is simply ignoring it) and only then show the inconsistency (if there is one).

Question to everyone: do you feel my latest response to Tail (page 18, in blue) didn't say anything new?