M:tG Planeswalker mafia - Town wins!

[DoomYoshi]

Having read the flavor on those two, they work together and seem pretty close. I wouldn't doubt it if they're telling the truth.

how so? reading the cards they have nothing in common.

+2: Sorin Markov deals 2 damage to target creature or player and you gain 2 life.
-3: Target opponent's life total becomes 10.
-7: You control target player during that player's next turn.

+1: Search your library for a card named Nissa's Chosen and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
+1: You gain 2 life for each Elf you control.
-7: Search your library for any number of Elf creature cards and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

Their entire story is about them working together.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Sorin_Markov

[wildwilliam]

Having read the flavor on those two, they work together and seem pretty close. I wouldn't doubt it if they're telling the truth.

how so? reading the cards they have nothing in common.

+2: Sorin Markov deals 2 damage to target creature or player and you gain 2 life.
-3: Target opponent's life total becomes 10.
-7: You control target player during that player's next turn.

+1: Search your library for a card named Nissa's Chosen and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
+1: You gain 2 life for each Elf you control.
-7: Search your library for any number of Elf creature cards and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

Their entire story is about them working together.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Sorin_Markov

unvote

I read the cards, I did not know of the back story.

[jgordon1111]

Seems slowreactor knew what he was doing when he set those 2 characters,and gives some creedence to their claim,what say you Rodion? Not enough yet for my vote,but it is looking bad for you at this point

[edocsil]

Interesting, in that little blurb SG didn't really seem to be my Ally, although it did explain to some degree why we were masoned.

[DoomYoshi]

Sorin is forced into action and allies himself with Nissa.

[Rodion]

Seems slowreactor knew what he was doing when he set those 2 characters,and gives some creedence to their claim,what say you Rodion? Not enough yet for my vote,but it is looking bad for you at this point

I say what I have already said before: we let both Shield and Edocsil live until we get more evidence on them. Until then, keep our minds open to the possibility that they may both be town or mafia. From my perspective, we pressure someone else into a claim and go from there (Victor Sullivan is my biggest bet), but it's an unique perspective derived from the fact that I'm 100% sure I'm town, a knowledge the other townspeople do not share yet.

Basically, the options are:

a) lynch Shield or Edocsil -> high risk, high reward move, but we can lower (or even completely eliminate) the risk by waiting more days, so I don't see that as a viable option
b) lynch Rodion -> lynching an uncounterclaimed protective power role D1 (the game probably only has 2 protective town power roles aside from the occasional 1-shot JOAT). My chances of avoiding a NK are twice the chances of a doctor (since I can avoid a kill by protecting the target OR by blocking the killer). Everything reckoned, it's a higher risk move than "a" with an even smaller reward
c) seize the opportunity of not having a deadline and look for another lead -> my suggestion, since both A and B are not great moves
d) no lynch -> should only be done if the deadline approaches and "c" didn't work

[edocsil]

You claimed Jailkeeper. Now you are saying you are a protective town power role? A jailkeeper is only useful for keeping people like me alive, claimed townies with no night action. Otherwise you are just mucking things up if you try to protect townies, as all you are doing is preventing their actions. In reality you are a role blocker that can protect vanilla townies. Not a power role.

[jgordon1111]

Rodion fishing is what got you into this,and you almost declared then but not quite. I admit you keep coming up with almost viable reasons not to lynch you but still somewhat fishy. Forcing someone else to declare does not at this time seem to be the best gameplan,Unless you choose to go ahead and freely declare,which in its self may not be best gameplan and would be suspect,beings there isnt someone who could back you up.

[Rodion]

You claimed Jailkeeper. Now you are saying you are a protective town power role? A jailkeeper is only useful for keeping people like me alive, claimed townies with no night action. Otherwise you are just mucking things up if you try to protect townies, as all you are doing is preventing their actions. In reality you are a role blocker that can protect vanilla townies. Not a power role.

I'm not going to argue semantics with you. If your opinion is that jailkeeper is not a protective power role, cool.

For the others: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

Gordon, not sure whether I understood your last post. What I'm saying is that there is no deadline yet, so we can keep discussing without fear of missing a lynch. From the new discussion, we may get new leads and a better lynch option (then again, we may not). It's the best course of action in my opinion.

[jgordon1111]

Rodion you are correct about getting more info.But making someone else declare I dont think is the best course of action at this point.

[edocsil]

You claimed Jailkeeper. Now you are saying you are a protective town power role? A jailkeeper is only useful for keeping people like me alive, claimed townies with no night action. Otherwise you are just mucking things up if you try to protect townies, as all you are doing is preventing their actions. In reality you are a role blocker that can protect vanilla townies. Not a power role.

I'm not going to argue semantics with you. If your opinion is that jailkeeper is not a protective power role, cool.

For the others: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

Gordon, not sure whether I understood your last post. What I'm saying is that there is no deadline yet, so we can keep discussing without fear of missing a lynch. From the new discussion, we may get new leads and a better lynch option (then again, we may not). It's the best course of action in my opinion.

That was borderline rude, and that is something unusual for you. I do not understand your actions this game, you know better to rolefish and you are always polite.

[pancakemix]

You claimed Jailkeeper. Now you are saying you are a protective town power role? A jailkeeper is only useful for keeping people like me alive, claimed townies with no night action. Otherwise you are just mucking things up if you try to protect townies, as all you are doing is preventing their actions. In reality you are a role blocker that can protect vanilla townies. Not a power role.

I'm not going to argue semantics with you. If your opinion is that jailkeeper is not a protective power role, cool.

For the others: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

Gordon, not sure whether I understood your last post. What I'm saying is that there is no deadline yet, so we can keep discussing without fear of missing a lynch. From the new discussion, we may get new leads and a better lynch option (then again, we may not). It's the best course of action in my opinion.

That was borderline rude, and that is something unusual for you. I do not understand your actions this game, you know better to rolefish and you are always polite.

Maybe that's how he plays town. I'VE never seen him as town. Have you?

To be fair, that would explain why he'd be upset.

[edocsil]

My first reply was a quick kneejerk, "Of Course!" But now that I think about it.... I don't know, this whole thing is odd to me and something is wrong. I honestly think it is the best shot we have got a pegging scum.

[Iron Butterfly]

My first reply was a quick kneejerk, "Of Course!" But now that I think about it.... I don't know, this whole thing is odd to me and something is wrong. I honestly think it is the best shot we have got a pegging scum.

Please expand on what you find odd and wrong.

It seems to me that people are prejudiced by how players have played games in the past. Im not sure if that is good or bad. Perahps a little of both.

I truly am on the fence and depending on the argument I could vote either way. I beleive SG7/Ed are Town. If I were mafia and needed to claim the last thing I would do would be to draw some one from my team in unless it was called for.

The focus on Rodion boils down to either he was role fishing as a mafia player or he is Town and wanted confirmation, which could still be classified as role fishing.

The folks who have played with Rodion only know him as a mafia player. I am assuming he knows what he is doing in this regard. Tailgunner makes a very good point. Would Rodion expose himself so early? Would an experienced player from the mafia side not know he would be called to task for doing such a thing? He must know he would be investigated and draw attention to himself.

One more important point.

Why is everyone assuming that there are only 4 Mafia? There could be any myriad of combos. Granted 4 mafia is standard and this is SRs first game. we could have a third party Goblin Brigade out there.

[Iron Butterfly]

And for the record ed I want your opinion on my question it is by no means antagonistic so please dot take it that way.

[Rodion]

You claimed Jailkeeper. Now you are saying you are a protective town power role? A jailkeeper is only useful for keeping people like me alive, claimed townies with no night action. Otherwise you are just mucking things up if you try to protect townies, as all you are doing is preventing their actions. In reality you are a role blocker that can protect vanilla townies. Not a power role.

I'm not going to argue semantics with you. If your opinion is that jailkeeper is not a protective power role, cool.

For the others: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

Gordon, not sure whether I understood your last post. What I'm saying is that there is no deadline yet, so we can keep discussing without fear of missing a lynch. From the new discussion, we may get new leads and a better lynch option (then again, we may not). It's the best course of action in my opinion.

That was borderline rude, and that is something unusual for you. I do not understand your actions this game, you know better to rolefish and you are always polite.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude, my comment was not supposed to be borderline rude as much as the realization that some people simply are so stubborn that they cannot be convinced once they've made up their minds and that arguing with you after you've decided that I need to be lynched is as effective as banging my head against a brickwall. If that makes you feel better, I could just as easily think the same of Freezie ("I didn't read that part of your post") or VS ("Why didn't anyone lynch him already?").

Now, you mentioned I'm always polite, implying the borderline rudeness of my previous post was a deviation from my town metagame, thus further evidence that I am scum and must be lynched. Since there are a lot of people that don't know me here and could actually buy what you've just said and mislynch me, I'm going to provide some fun facts to counter your "evidences".

Fun facts:

1 - most games I've played had me either as mafia (Terminator, Clue, Zelda, Actors), cult (Team CC, Unknown) or 3rd-party (Golden Pantheon Native Americans, Golden Pantheon Egyptian, Game of Thrones, Memebase)

2 - my town metagame can only be derived from 3 games (Pokémon Mafia, Quickie Mafia and Mafia Mafia), none of which Edocsil was part of

3 - the game I got lynched due to rolefishing accusations (Unkown Mafia) had multiple anti-town factions and as such I was trying to scum hunt (people from the other factions). Even now, several months later, you can't even argue that it was proven that my way of playing hurt town as the two people I got accused of rolefishing (Bleed Green and Gimli) have yet to flip their actual alignments

4 - my best town performance was in Mafia Mafia, a game I single-handedly won for town due to the use of...





wait...





just a little more...





I bet you're going to like that...





ROLEFISHING!!! ( viewtopic.php?f=610&t=147058 )

[Rodion]

Why is everyone assuming that there are only 4 Mafia? There could be any myriad of combos. Granted 4 mafia is standard and this is SRs first game. we could have a third party Goblin Brigade out there.

There could be more or less mafia, but, absent more clues, my usual "blind" prediction for a 15 player game is 10-4-1 (10 town, 4 mafia, 1 third-party, usually a SK).

[wildwilliam]

jail keeper seems to be a pointless role. You have the protection of a doc but at the same time you block their actions.

Benefits: you role block a mafia killer, or protect a vanilla townie
Drawbacks: you protect mafia, or role block a power town role.

Seems like unless you know for sure who people are that it has a strong potential to greatly benefit mafia.

[Victor Sullivan]

Okay, okay, I'm starting to think I was wrong. pancakemix just blew my mind:

You claimed Jailkeeper. Now you are saying you are a protective town power role? A jailkeeper is only useful for keeping people like me alive, claimed townies with no night action. Otherwise you are just mucking things up if you try to protect townies, as all you are doing is preventing their actions. In reality you are a role blocker that can protect vanilla townies. Not a power role.

I'm not going to argue semantics with you. If your opinion is that jailkeeper is not a protective power role, cool.

For the others: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

Gordon, not sure whether I understood your last post. What I'm saying is that there is no deadline yet, so we can keep discussing without fear of missing a lynch. From the new discussion, we may get new leads and a better lynch option (then again, we may not). It's the best course of action in my opinion.

That was borderline rude, and that is something unusual for you. I do not understand your actions this game, you know better to rolefish and you are always polite.

Maybe that's how he plays town. I'VE never seen him as town. Have you?

To be fair, that would explain why he'd be upset.

unvote

-Sully

[Victor Sullivan]

EBWOP: unvote

-Sully

[edocsil]

Anything else aside, you have been eloquent in your own defense. The question is just whether or not we can afford to trust you.

[Victor Sullivan]

I'd also like to say, as the mod of Mafia Mafia, you can't really use that. Like, at all. For anything. It was incredibly broken. naxus and I had a great formula for a balanced no-rules mafia, but he disappeared and I lost it

-Sully

[jgordon1111]

and edoc hit it,rodion its about trusting you.then VS comes in and says one of the games you were using for your defense was a broken game and not a good specimen to use. As I said before you are making great defensive move not to lynch you,but each time someone throws a shadow on them.Can you put up a solid unbreakable defense?

[Rodion]

Gordon, you'll have to get used to the fact that a good ammount of cases (and most D1 cases) in a mafia game are argumentative and as such ultimately fall into trusting someone or not. The "smoking guns" are usually counterclaims, poorly made fakeclaims (either when they don't logically add up or another player has proof that the claim is false) and guilty/innocent results, things you're more likely to see later on in the game.

To answer your question, in this case, there is no such thing as a solid unbreakable defense, just like it would be foolish to assume that Yoshi/Edocsil/whomever has put up a solid unbreakable case against me.

[edocsil]

Just for the record Rodion's last line is absolute correct. Make no mistake about that.