M:tG Planeswalker mafia - Town wins!

[DoomYoshi]

Rodion, your claim isn't that great. Also, you don't seem to realize that your blatant role fishing is a bad thing. You have to die.

[Rodion]

Rodion, your claim isn't that great. Also, you don't seem to realize that your blatant role fishing is a bad thing. You have to die.

I made a big post this very page explaining how it's not a bad thing. Can you (or anyone else) prove the contrary with facts/numbers?

I still do not regret forcing Shield to give Edoc's name and I think that is good for town. If you're going to freak out, then at least try to argue rationally instead of answering with half baked 1-liners that end with "you have to die".

[DoomYoshi]

Your numbers/ facts are based on hypothetical situation. What has happened here is that you were role fishing. After the fact you are trying to justify it. I doubt you ran through a simulation like presented above when you asked shield to tell us about edoc. What you are doing is not rational thought, it is just trying to protect yourself.

If having two confirmed townies is such a good thing, why isn't it normal protocol for masons to claim themselves right off the bat? Until you can answer that question, all your numbers are meaningless. The only way your actions have helped town is if you flip scum. Otherwise, we are wasting our lynch for today and you have really screwed town.

[wildwilliam]

What is the point of Mason's? Why are they a power role. They just seem like a waste except they know each other is town. but what benefit is that when there are tow of them. not a lot really.

And why the fast posting of who your mason partner is? That seems really odd.

My vote is on Rodin, because there is no reason to try and out potential townies. But this is not sitting right with me for some reason....

[Iron Butterfly]

Let me add this.

SG7 had absolutely no bussiness posting in this game at all. He was not one of the listed plyers yet he makes three unsolicited posts.Then he is allowed to take a roll that is already on the bandwagon to be lynched? Thats messed up.

I do not know the solution but his BS has drasticly affected the game.

Slow Reactor needs to clear this up.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Stop trying to distract people from focusing on Rodion. Obvious distraction is obvious.

What it was was frustration at what transpired. no more no less. I was just venting.

UNVOTE RODION

I hate bullies. I found it odd that you where trying to hammer jgordon for his poor choice of words and yet completely ignored the red flags that Lietz was bringing up and wich actually puts us in the position we have today.

You voted jgordan while everyone was focusing on Lietz...you were giving jordan stupid ass busy work while lecturing him on backing up what he claims and yet you tell him you dont want to lynch him because you belkive hes town.

You more or less threatened me that I would be lynched after Rodion.

I voted Rodion because I felt intimidated to do so. Somthing is amiss and I dont have all the answers.

So much a boring day one.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

What is the point of Mason's? Why are they a power role. They just seem like a waste except they know each other is town. but what benefit is that when there are tow of them. not a lot really.

And why the fast posting of who your mason partner is? That seems really odd.

My vote is on Rodin, because there is no reason to try and out potential townies. But this is not sitting right with me for some reason....

In more classic mafias, masons are actually pretty worthwhile. You have to remember that really the mafia is just a minority that knows who each other are, traditionally with one NK. It's only with the addition of all these extra power roles that masons don't seem so impressive to you.

Knowing for certain that another player is town, and being able to collaborate and share ideas at night is a huge play advantage (again this is all the mafia faction really is). This is a text-based games where, if you're town, you're largely in the dark about others' roles, unless you have investigative abilities or something. Extra info, like who else is town, is a huge help.

-Tails

[DoomYoshi]

What it was was frustration at what transpired. no more no less. I was just venting.

Ok, fair enough.
UNVOTE RODION

I hate bullies. I found it odd that you where trying to hammer jgordon for his poor choice of words and yet completely ignored the red flags that Lietz was bringing up and wich actually puts us in the position we have today.

Mafia is a game of communication. If I write a sentence, I expect the other players to understand what I mean and then reply accordingly. My problem with jgordon was, and still is, that he doesn't even understand what I am talking about. Either he is too young to understand what I meant, or he is too new to English to understand what I meant. Clarity is very important. When I say he needs proof, he shows no evidence of understanding the word 'proof'. That is not poor choice of words. That is a severe issue which I tried to address as soon as possible.

Leitz was not dropping red flags. A player comes along who I have never heard of before, posts once and then vanishes. That isn't a red flag, that's the norm around here. Welcome to the mafia forum Iron.

You voted jgordan while everyone was focusing on Lietz...you were giving jordan stupid ass busy work while lecturing him on backing up what he claims and yet you tell him you dont want to lynch him because you belkive hes town.

I can vote whoever I want. Just because town has decided to place attention elsewhere doesn't mean that I have to follow them. Furthermore, when you say everyone you must realize of course, that Rodion also voted for jgordon, so he is not part of everyone.

See my answer to your first paragraph. I must point out that even now, jgordon has still not replied with an answer to the question. At the time, nothing serious was going on. An inactive case does nothing to keep a thread alive and nothing to stimulate conversation. I was keeping conversation going.

I believed that this was merely a misunderstanding. Just because someone can't understand the questions I am asking him doesn't mean that he is scum. However, I noticed that you defended jgordon as well as Rodion, so if Rodion flips scum, you are next, followed by jgordon.

You more or less threatened me that I would be lynched after Rodion.

It wasn't more or less. I did threaten you. And it worked. Panicked, you voted Rodion. However, you still defended him and tried to move the case away from him.

I voted Rodion because I felt intimidated to do so. Somthing is amiss and I dont have all the answers.

Intimidation happens. Don't be afraid to stand your ground. However, be aware, that if any player flips scum, those who defended that player get burned usually.

So much a boring day one.

I realize that edoc probably thinks this is the worst day 1 ever, but at least it is exciting

[Rodion]

This is exactly why I don't worry a lot about who defended who nearly as much as I worry about what reasons one used to defend the other.

There is always the possibility that a mafia-aligned player will be accused for the wrong reasons. It happened, for instance, in Terminator Mafia when Strike, through a mistake, concluded that Freezie was the mafia godfather (while Freezie was indeed the mafia godfather, the thought process behind the conclusion was totally flawed). If such a situation occurs, there is a good chance that a town-aligned player will defend the accused mafia-player. After seeing a mafia flip, saying "you defended him so you must be scum" is as good a case as saying the third player that confirms is always scum or some other random jibber-jabber.

Right now, not only is Yoshi pushing heavily for my lynch, but he has also already lined up not one but two other people for future lynches in case I flip mafia. It's just stupid.

Regarding Jgordon, I think a town player that appears committed enough to read several games in order to notice patterns should not object to revealing those. The lack of good faith present in his dodging the requests (not presenting the evidence he claimed he had researched), while also threatening Yoshi twice as a defensive move were the motivating forces that led me to voting Jgordon. I'd still have my vote there if not for VS pressuring for a premature hammer that would only be detrimental to town.

[Iron Butterfly]

What it was was frustration at what transpired. no more no less. I was just venting.

Ok, fair enough.
UNVOTE RODION

I hate bullies. I found it odd that you where trying to hammer jgordon for his poor choice of words and yet completely ignored the red flags that Lietz was bringing up and wich actually puts us in the position we have today.

Mafia is a game of communication. If I write a sentence, I expect the other players to understand what I mean and then reply accordingly. My problem with jgordon was, and still is, that he doesn't even understand what I am talking about. Either he is too young to understand what I meant, or he is too new to English to understand what I meant. Clarity is very important. When I say he needs proof, he shows no evidence of understanding the word 'proof'. That is not poor choice of words. That is a severe issue which I tried to address as soon as possible.

Leitz was not dropping red flags. A player comes along who I have never heard of before, posts once and then vanishes. That isn't a red flag, that's the norm around here. Welcome to the mafia forum Iron.

You voted jgordan while everyone was focusing on Lietz...you were giving jordan stupid ass busy work while lecturing him on backing up what he claims and yet you tell him you dont want to lynch him because you belkive hes town.

I can vote whoever I want. Just because town has decided to place attention elsewhere doesn't mean that I have to follow them. Furthermore, when you say everyone you must realize of course, that Rodion also voted for jgordon, so he is not part of everyone.

See my answer to your first paragraph. I must point out that even now, jgordon has still not replied with an answer to the question. At the time, nothing serious was going on. An inactive case does nothing to keep a thread alive and nothing to stimulate conversation. I was keeping conversation going.

I believed that this was merely a misunderstanding. Just because someone can't understand the questions I am asking him doesn't mean that he is scum. However, I noticed that you defended jgordon as well as Rodion, so if Rodion flips scum, you are next, followed by jgordon.

You more or less threatened me that I would be lynched after Rodion.

It wasn't more or less. I did threaten you. And it worked. Panicked, you voted Rodion. However, you still defended him and tried to move the case away from him.

I voted Rodion because I felt intimidated to do so. Somthing is amiss and I dont have all the answers.

Intimidation happens. Don't be afraid to stand your ground. However, be aware, that if any player flips scum, those who defended that player get burned usually.

So much a boring day one.

I realize that edoc probably thinks this is the worst day 1 ever, but at least it is exciting

I just dont like double standards.

Threats are OK as long as you make them.

"If you make a claim be prepared to back it up." unless you disagree when one should claim.

You dont lynch noobs yet created a possible bandwagon on one, the pressure on him only stopped when the logic of what was being done was pointed out.

I dont condider what I am bringingup a distraction as unlike some I can multi task several thing at once, *grin*.

WOW lots of pretty colors

[slowreactor]

Vote Count

Iron Butterfly (1)- shieldgenerator7
shieldgenerator7 (2)- drake_259, jgordon1111
Victor Sullivan (2)- Iliad, Rodion
Rodion (6) - DoomYoshi, edocsil, wildwilliam, sheepofdumb, Victor Sullivan, freezie (L-2)

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

[DoomYoshi]

I just dont like double standards.

Threats are OK as long as you make them.
This is a distortion of reality. I am threatening you because I have a reason. Jgordon threatening me was because I asked him to prove a point. A major scum tell. If you don't believe me, start a poll. Although I should note that jgordon wasn't actually threatening me, I just misread his post.
"If you make a claim be prepared to back it up." unless you disagree when one should claim.
A role claim is a special case.when you ruin somebody else's game in the process, even more so.
You dont lynch noobs yet created a possible bandwagon on one, the pressure on him only stopped when the logic of what was being done was pointed out.
Asking someone to clarify a point is part of the game. I don't like to lynch n00bs on day 1 for the same reason this site doesn't allow farming of new recruits.
WOW lots of pretty colors

[DoomYoshi]

Vote Count

Iron Butterfly (1)- shieldgenerator7
shieldgenerator7 (2)- drake_259, jgordon1111
Victor Sullivan (2)- Iliad, Rodion
Rodion (6) - DoomYoshi, edocsil, wildwilliam, sheepofdumb, Victor Sullivan, freezie (L-2)

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Please prod Jake and Iliad.

[DoomYoshi]

Vote Count

Iron Butterfly (1)- shieldgenerator7
shieldgenerator7 (2)- drake_259, jgordon1111
Victor Sullivan (2)- Iliad, Rodion
Rodion (6) - DoomYoshi, edocsil, wildwilliam, sheepofdumb, Victor Sullivan, freezie (L-2)

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Please prod Jake and Iliad.

Drake, not jake. Damn you autocorrect!

[jgordon1111]

UNVOTE sheildgenerator

[freezie]

Long post that goes over what happened since, while it doesn't really add anything new to current cases, hell, it's my oppinion and I am gona say it anyway:

Slow Reactor needs to clear this up.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I won't quote everything you said up to this point as this pretty much sums up everything, even though Edoc cleared it, I will be this precise:

Slow has done it, ever before that discussion. He said EXACTLY when shield entered the game, ''Leitz has been replaced by shield''. Everything else doesn't really mater. Slow is the mod, therefor the law, and he decides wether he will take action or not.

As for slow, you're doing fine. Basicly, you handle the things you want to. If you want an outside player not posting in the game, you tell him to shut the hell up, and he will need to. Same goes for, basicly, anything. Keep the game running smooth and it will be smooth. Every mods is different, and players agree to that upon signing up for a game. If you don't beleive me, go look at how much spam fircoal allowed in his games.

I voted Rodion because I felt intimidated to do so. Somthing is amiss and I dont have all the answers.

So much a boring day one.

Day one are normally boring, this isn't, at least we got something to work out with. Second, you shouldn't vote becausr you're intimidated to do so. LIke said, stand your ground and express your oppinion. It is, after all, our only power. ( aside those sneaky cops, but that's another story )

You dont lynch noobs yet created a possible bandwagon on one, the pressure on him only stopped when the logic of what was being done was pointed out.

By pressuring someone who clearly avoids revealing something and dodging the whole subject in general is a good way to gather some hidden information. Lynching may or may not have been the conclusion, but at least breaking trought and make him reveal what he didn't want to was, at least in my oppinion, the whole goal. Although I used that opportunity to give him a feel of the game and why exactly he should be ready to back what he says.

When is someone going to hang Rodion?

-Sully

I am in no way removing my vote from Rodion, but VS, don't be so bloodthirsty...-.- no deadlines and more conversation going on.





Rodion, I am now used to your playing style, and this long post with many numbers isn't unfamilliar of you. And I didn't read it. I somewhat caught a few words, but I won't spend time going trought it more than that.

Point: you rolefished.

Conclusion: you have possibilites to harm the town. And have done it.


Numbers or not, you forced someone who didn't need to claim, to do it. I'll give you one more reason to keep a mason in the dark: It keeps a confirmed townie for the endgame, whose mafia either failed to kill. In the case they killed him, they COULD have been trying to get the cop instead. Granted, EVERY scenario is different, so you may not agree with me. And I don't care wether you do or not.

There is always the possibility that a mafia-aligned player will be accused for the wrong reasons. It happened, for instance, in Terminator Mafia when Strike, through a mistake, concluded that Freezie was the mafia godfather (while Freezie was indeed the mafia godfather, the thought process behind the conclusion was totally flawed). If such a situation occurs, there is a good chance that a town-aligned player will defend the accused mafia-player. After seeing a mafia flip, saying "you defended him so you must be scum" is as good a case as saying the third player that confirms is always scum or some other random jibber-jabber.

That game was awesome, but again proved how dangerous strike can be. Even if wrong, he is right. Let me tell you that town lynched their own cop in that game due to super long posts with huge numbers from Rodion, too. OK and a bad claim from Naxus....

[Iron Butterfly]

I just dont like double standards.

Threats are OK as long as you make them.
This is a distortion of reality. I am threatening you because I have a reason. Jgordon threatening me was because I asked him to prove a point. A major scum tell. If you don't believe me, start a poll. Although I should note that jgordon wasn't actually threatening me, I just misread his post.
"If you make a claim be prepared to back it up." unless you disagree when one should claim.
A role claim is a special case.when you ruin somebody else's game in the process, even more so.
You dont lynch noobs yet created a possible bandwagon on one, the pressure on him only stopped when the logic of what was being done was pointed out.
Asking someone to clarify a point is part of the game. I don't like to lynch n00bs on day 1 for the same reason this site doesn't allow farming of new recruits.
WOW lots of pretty colors

Reality is a matter of perception as well. You threaten me because I am arguing a different point of view, which is just as valid.

You admit you were wrong about jgorden because you misread his post...yet up until other possibilities were brought up you treated it like it was reality. You misread the situation. You were so caught up in what you thought was the truth.

Who ruined whos game? SG7? Rodion? You? gimme a break...This IS the game.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

That game was awesome, but again proved how dangerous strike can be. Even if wrong, he is right. Let me tell you that town lynched their own cop in that game due to super long posts with huge numbers from Rodion, too. OK and a bad claim from Naxus....

If only people would listen to me...lol.

I never tricked Shield into claiming his role (I don't think I've ever voted Leitz or Shield on this game). Besides, checking the validity of a claim is not the same as rolefishing. The thing is that he used his power role claim to be let off the hook, and this claim was a mason one, which links another player to him. If the other player is not announced, it becomes extremely easy for scum to fakeclaim town mason and say they are trying to preserve another townie's identity.

The protocol now consists in waiting for Edoc to confirm or deny his role, then we go from there.

Which makes you all the more dangerous, as you could easily put me at L-1 or hammer if you aren't already on the bandwagon. Hence why I didn't take your demands lightly

AARGH ffs people! When will people understand that scum are pretty much never going to hammer an unclaimed role just to get rid of a townie (on fucking D1 no less when the balance is greatest for town). It's an immediate fucking klaxon to the town warning them that the hammer be investigated or lynched the next day. What scum is going to try this? It only alerts the town to their presence. This only happens endgame. C'mon, people, let's use some strategy here. If you were a scum on D1 (15 players so maybe 4-5 scummies) are you really going to risk an investigation or potentially losing 20-25% of your manpower so you can take away 1 townie of the other 10-11 players (~10%). IT MAKES NO SENSE. The best bet for scum early on is to avoid notice and pick off quiet or talented players during the night.

SO MUCH RAGE!!!!

You've really mucked this up, shield. You should never have claimed. You had a bullshit wagon that would've gone away naturally, by just you posting upon replacement of leitz. Lookit, if Rodion is town, then he's concerned about your claim (personally I'm not too sure about his reasons...

The thing is that he used his power role claim to be let off the hook, and this claim was a mason one, which links another player to him. If the other player is not announced, it becomes extremely easy for scum to fakeclaim town mason and say they are trying to preserve another townie's identity.

meh, that's easily testable. If scum were ballsy enough to claim masons, I'm sure someone would investigate one of them. Bam, next two day lynches.), but if he's scum then A) he's bluffing, in which case you easily call his bluff by telling him to kick rocks, or B) he hammers you, in which case we catch scum.

WOOOODDDRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!

Now, to move on to the issue at hand, I suppose: Rodion. As you may have gathered from the rest of my post, I'm kinda on the fence with him, leaning towards scum. I mean, he gave this kinda paltry reason about "the scum will claim masons" but it does sound like rolefishing, especially considering the target. I must mull it over some more, I guess.

-Tails

[Victor Sullivan]

*Sigh* I miss Woodruff

-Sully

[wildwilliam]

I am tempted to hammer shield. Yes, he is my mason partner. Yes, I still have him Foed. It is things like this that have earned him his place on my foe list. I PMed the mod about the situation before Shield blew it, but now it is to damn late.

since we know part of your role, can you please claim the rest, like your who you are. This will solidify my vote on rodin.

[Rodion]

I am tempted to hammer shield. Yes, he is my mason partner. Yes, I still have him Foed. It is things like this that have earned him his place on my foe list. I PMed the mod about the situation before Shield blew it, but now it is to damn late.

since we know part of your role, can you please claim the rest, like your who you are. This will solidify my vote on rodin.

viewtopic.php?p=3459210#p3459210

[wildwilliam]

I am tempted to hammer shield. Yes, he is my mason partner. Yes, I still have him Foed. It is things like this that have earned him his place on my foe list. I PMed the mod about the situation before Shield blew it, but now it is to damn late.

since we know part of your role, can you please claim the rest, like your who you are. This will solidify my vote on rodin.

viewtopic.php?p=3459210#p3459210

Thanks.

These two do not make sense as masons.

unvote vote shield

If he comes up as a mason, edocil is clean and can be trusted, go after rodin tomorrow. If not, we get two scum.

[pancakemix]

Having read the flavor on those two, they work together and seem pretty close. I wouldn't doubt it if they're telling the truth.

[shieldgenerator7]

We have a lot of discussion going on in here. Yay

A lot of people are saying I screwed up and I can't tell whether that's actually their opinion or whether they are just agreeing with what everyone else is saying. And if I id mess up I must admit it was a new situation for me and I didn't realize that the case on Leitz was just for his silence (I had read the thread, but I didn't take the posts leading up to that point in consideration).

And who says I ruined the game? As long as we're all still having fun, the game's not ruined.

I am not sure about the case on Rodion. I think he was just town trying to scumhunt but on the other hand we do need a lynch today and he's the biggest BW so far. But we still have a few days left so I'm not in a hurry.

I also find it fishy that jgordon placed a vote on Leitz after I had replaced him, and after I had already claimed. I find that very suspicious...

Fear not, this day is still salvagable.

FASTPOSTED

-SG7 ( )

[drake_259]

First of all Unvote, should have been done ages ago, sorry not been here to do so.

anyway with rodion, a jailkeeper is an easy role for mafia to claim. but from being d1 we cant even check his night actions to tell whether he has a roleblocking skill, if he is mafia, i'm willing to bet he is the roleblocker.

Now with shield and edoc, i truely believe both of these are masoned together, i can't see them lying as it would give us 2 scum later on to lynch as we will find out the truth before this game ends.

now i wanna place a FOS: william for the vote place on shield.

[wildwilliam]

Having read the flavor on those two, they work together and seem pretty close. I wouldn't doubt it if they're telling the truth.

how so? reading the cards they have nothing in common.

+2: Sorin Markov deals 2 damage to target creature or player and you gain 2 life.
-3: Target opponent's life total becomes 10.
-7: You control target player during that player's next turn.

+1: Search your library for a card named Nissa's Chosen and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
+1: You gain 2 life for each Elf you control.
-7: Search your library for any number of Elf creature cards and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.