Stool Pigeon Mafia - Game Over! Mafia Win!!! MVP- Zimmah

[trinicardinal]

The list can be refined further by removing sets with 3, 6, 18 or all odd numbers:

I am not sure I get this completely, I get the all odd numbers, and I know these people are dead (3,6,18), but why are ALL sets containing these numbers removed?

18, 19, 4 = 41. just because 18 is gone, doesn't mean that 19 is not the guy we are looking for correct?


I could understand removing 3-6-18 (if it equaled 41) but not all combinations containing just one number.

Good point. I am glad you noticed. I am just confused by the whole thing

Trust me, you're not the only one confused! this is more difficult since we don't knot the actual roles... and I suspect that LSU was either pigeon or informant

[wildwilliam]

The list can be refined further by removing sets with 3, 6, 18 or all odd numbers:

I am not sure I get this completely, I get the all odd numbers, and I know these people are dead (3,6,18), but why are ALL sets containing these numbers removed?

18, 19, 4 = 41. just because 18 is gone, doesn't mean that 19 is not the guy we are looking for correct?


I could understand removing 3-6-18 (if it equaled 41) but not all combinations containing just one number.

Good point. I am glad you noticed. I am just confused by the whole thing

Trust me, you're not the only one confused! this is more difficult since we don't knot the actual roles... and I suspect that LSU was either pigeon or informant

I understand what they are saying. It just does not make sense. Why get rid of all the combinations just because one of the numbers is dead?

[edocsil]

The table means nothing until we find actual scum. No one can really be eliminated from it at this point from the standpoint of roles. The odd/even hypothesis is valid, but nothing is valid if it assumes the allegiance of the dead.

[shieldgenerator7]

Yeah, i agree, how do we know who the dead are? Is the mod going to tell us when we hit down a mafia member? I sure hope so, since we don't have any vigs or anything.

I'll try to reread the thread and see what i come up with

[skillfusniper33]

I believe it is all on the informants to leave enough hints to who each player is, and if possible try to help keep them alive so we don't have any miss-lynches. But that seems like it would be an extremely difficult thing to do.

[Eldario]

The list can be refined further by removing sets with 3, 6, 18 or all odd numbers:

I am not sure I get this completely, I get the all odd numbers, and I know these people are dead (3,6,18), but why are ALL sets containing these numbers removed?

18, 19, 4 = 41. just because 18 is gone, doesn't mean that 19 is not the guy we are looking for correct?


I could understand removing 3-6-18 (if it equaled 41) but not all combinations containing just one number.

I agree with wildwilliam on this one, the list can't be made any shorter,(with our current information) than a correct list made according to the original clue

[skillfusniper33]

The list can be refined further by removing sets with 3, 6, 18 or all odd numbers:

I am not sure I get this completely, I get the all odd numbers, and I know these people are dead (3,6,18), but why are ALL sets containing these numbers removed?

18, 19, 4 = 41. just because 18 is gone, doesn't mean that 19 is not the guy we are looking for correct?


I could understand removing 3-6-18 (if it equaled 41) but not all combinations containing just one number.

I agree with wildwilliam on this one, the list can't be made any shorter,(with our current information) than a correct list made according to the original clue

Now that we have come to a better conclusion that it is probably a SK instead of a group of scum, which was my first initial thoughts, so the list I created and removed numbers from is no longer valid.

[VioIet]

Yeah, i agree, how do we know who the dead are? Is the mod going to tell us when we hit down a mafia member?

Sorry shield, but no roles will be revealed at any point in the game.
I know it is a very challenging variant. All will be revealed at the end. Game ends when only one faction remains, and of course, I'll announce when this happens.

show

[thehippo8]

The list can be refined further by removing sets with 3, 6, 18 or all odd numbers:

I am not sure I get this completely, I get the all odd numbers, and I know these people are dead (3,6,18), but why are ALL sets containing these numbers removed?

18, 19, 4 = 41. just because 18 is gone, doesn't mean that 19 is not the guy we are looking for correct?


I could understand removing 3-6-18 (if it equaled 41) but not all combinations containing just one number.

I agree with wildwilliam on this one, the list can't be made any shorter,(with our current information) than a correct list made according to the original clue

Now that we have come to a better conclusion that it is probably a SK instead of a group of scum, which was my first initial thoughts, so the list I created and removed numbers from is no longer valid.

My reasoning is that the puzzle is a logic puzzle.

Again

LSU Tiger Josh wrote:
We have 3 players who's game numbers equal 41. Who they are, I cannot say by rule, but one of them will surely cause a death each day by choosing to make a dead dude. The numbers are not all even or all odd, but the person surely is odd. Heed my advice town because once I state this, I cannot interpret any answers

Normally with logic puzzles you define the sets (as we have done) and then remove the sets which cannot apply. With 3, 6 and 18 removed it was my view that logic would hold that with those numbers removed you are left with some sets of 3 numbers and some sets of two numbers. Given the clue requires sets of 3 then the remaining sets of two can be removed. I accept that this is simple logic but it fits the clue and leaves us with a more defined group to concentrate on. THen relating this shortened lists to the various postings (or lack of them) we have suspects of who the SK is. I agree this does not help us with respect to who Mafia are and the clue never suggested it would. The only question we need to consider now is whether the SK is Mafia, Town or third party. I do not believe there is a third party because of what Vio said at the beginning:

This was the original way I learned to play Mafia. In my high school theatre class, we would often play mafia as an ice breaker activity. There were about 18 students in the class. There were 6 mafia, and 12 townies. One of the townies was a Stool Pigeon. The stool pigeon is an ex-mafia member, who escaped and changed his/her identity. The stool pigeon knows all of the mafia, and the townies. Mafia and town do not know who the stool pigeon is. The pigeon cannot reveal himself/herself, nor mention anyone's role directly.

Logically that leaves the SK as being Mafia or Town. But look again at the lynch ...

But Basically, all of the vanilla townies, as well as the fake vanilla townies and the disguised vanilla townies all gathered in the middle of the city to discuss who could be the mafia amongst them.
One particular citizen seemed to mysteriously disappear and reappear throughout the day.

The aroused the VT's suspicions, and they all decided to lynch him.


Victor Sullivan has been lynched.

Unfortunately, a search of his body proved fruitless. They have no way of knowing whether he was a true vanilla townie, mafia, or someone with top secret information.

Everyone walked away disappointed, not knowing if they made the right decision. However, amongst the 21 people that were left remaining, only one was aware of Victor's true role.

And compare that to the night kill ...

The "Vanilla townies" wake up in the morning to find two people dead.

Zimmah - ?????? has died.


LSU Tiger Josh- ????? has died.

Some in the crowd, knew the identity of one or both of these people. But to most, it remains a mystery.

Given LSU was trying to give us information I believe him to be Town. The question is whether Zimmah was Town or Mafia. If Zimmah was Mafia then the SK is town and we would be insane to kill them. If Zimmah is Town then the SK is Mafia and we desperately need to kill them.

Just to remove another possible misconception, aafter the lynch Vio hinted at four factions:
1.vanilla townies,
2.fake vanilla townies,
3.disguised vanilla townies, and
4. mafia.

But after the night kill Vio subsumes all Town into one group "vanilla townies". Add to that Vio's original quote which sets apart Town from Mafia leaves me with the belief that the idea of factions is a red herring and there is just Town and Mafia.

So I agree we need to focus on removing Mafia.

Another piece to the puzzle is whether we are certain on whether Victor was Town or Mafia. If Victor was Town then there are at least two Town gone, if Mafia then possibly two Mafia are gone.

I will go back and see what I can glean from the posts but at least we have more mysteries to ponder!

[chapcrap]

The table means nothing until we find actual scum. No one can really be eliminated from it at this point from the standpoint of roles. The odd/even hypothesis is valid, but nothing is valid if it assumes the allegiance of the dead.

Agreed on this. This will be very difficult to get information about anything without roles being revealed.

If there are 2 factions it will make it even harder because when someone dies at night you can't even definitively say that they were a town member.

The question I have is why do we think the second faction is a SK? This whole process is just confusing for me. I was understanding the numbers, but now we're saying that the numbers don't matter anymore? Can someone help me?

[skillfusniper33]

off of the clue LSU gave there are a few key words that I first overlooked and am now pretty sure it is one person instead of a fraction.

We have 3 players who's game numbers equal 41. Who they are, I cannot say by rule, but one of them will surely cause a death each day by choosing to make a dead dude. The numbers are not all even or all odd, but the person surely is odd. Heed my advice town because once I state this, I cannot interpret any answers

I am sure if he was referring to a whole set of numbers he could have said one of these sets be bad. But instead he refers to one person in a set, so it makes me lean more towards it being one person instead of a second fraction.

I am also pretty sure we could continue to remove sets a little bit, as long as we keep every number available. I think the only number that wouldn't be available, and would be willing to put back in would be the 22 18 1. Since whoever is 1 only appears on the list once.

If there is a SK, and they are town, I would advise them to not kill unless they were completely sure of one person's alignment.

[chapcrap]

off of the clue LSU gave there are a few key words that I first overlooked and am now pretty sure it is one person instead of a fraction.

We have 3 players who's game numbers equal 41. Who they are, I cannot say by rule, but one of them will surely cause a death each day by choosing to make a dead dude. The numbers are not all even or all odd, but the person surely is odd. Heed my advice town because once I state this, I cannot interpret any answers

I am sure if he was referring to a whole set of numbers he could have said one of these sets be bad. But instead he refers to one person in a set, so it makes me lean more towards it being one person instead of a second fraction.

I am also pretty sure we could continue to remove sets a little bit, as long as we keep every number available. I think the only number that wouldn't be available, and would be willing to put back in would be the 22 18 1. Since whoever is 1 only appears on the list once.

If there is a SK, and they are town, I would advise them to not kill unless they were completely sure of one person's alignment.

Ok, I guess that makes a little more sense to me. It still doesn't make sense as to why he grouped them in 3 though...

Anyway, he does say the person is surely odd, does that mean it's an odd numbered person or just weird? (bad joke) I guess we should focus on odd numbered people who are scummy.

[Eldario]

@theHippo8

Victor Sullivan has been lynched.

Unfortunately, a search of his body proved fruitless. They have no way of knowing whether he was a true vanilla townie, mafia, or someone with top secret information.

Everyone walked away disappointed, not knowing if they made the right decision. However, amongst the 21 people that were left remaining, only one was aware of Victor's true role.

correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact that only one person knew his role would that not suggest that he was not Mafia, since a Mafia members role would have been known to his fellow Mafiosi

[thehippo8]

@theHippo8

Victor Sullivan has been lynched.

Unfortunately, a search of his body proved fruitless. They have no way of knowing whether he was a true vanilla townie, mafia, or someone with top secret information.

Everyone walked away disappointed, not knowing if they made the right decision. However, amongst the 21 people that were left remaining, only one was aware of Victor's true role.

correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact that only one person knew his role would that not suggest that he was not Mafia, since a Mafia members role would have been known to his fellow Mafiosi

My point entirely which lead me to believe that either Sens is evil or terrafutan can explain somtheing that he knows!

[terrafutan]

My point entirely which lead me to believe that either Sens is evil or terrafutan can explain something that he knows!

I'm totally lost. The math went right over my head, so I'm ignoring it

The only thing I do know, is that reading LSU's information, in my mind he was pointing out the SK.

I am not sure how the role works here on CC because in games I play, SK is always 3rd party and has to kill every night, which ties in with what LSU said which I bolded.

but one of them will surely cause a death each day by choosing to make a dead dude

[thehippo8]

My point entirely which lead me to believe that either Sens is evil or terrafutan can explain something that he knows!

I'm totally lost. The math went right over my head, so I'm ignoring it

The only thing I do know, is that reading LSU's information, in my mind he was pointing out the SK.

I am not sure how the role works here on CC because in games I play, SK is always 3rd party and has to kill every night, which ties in with what LSU said which I bolded.

but one of them will surely cause a death each day by choosing to make a dead dude

I knew a prod would have something great come back from you.

How's this for a theory ... the SK is the pogeon! Ex-mafia (so used to killing) but now town!

So, the only reason to keep an eye on the clue must be to ensure we don't kill the pigeon!!

On that note, my focus remains on Sens!

[shieldgenerator7]

My point entirely which lead me to believe that either Sens is evil or terrafutan can explain something that he knows!

I'm totally lost. The math went right over my head, so I'm ignoring it

The only thing I do know, is that reading LSU's information, in my mind he was pointing out the SK.

I am not sure how the role works here on CC because in games I play, SK is always 3rd party and has to kill every night, which ties in with what LSU said which I bolded.

but one of them will surely cause a death each day by choosing to make a dead dude

I knew a prod would have something great come back from you.

How's this for a theory ... the SK is the pogeon! Ex-mafia (so used to killing) but now town!

So, the only reason to keep an eye on the clue must be to ensure we don't kill the pigeon!!

On that note, my focus remains on Sens!

What! That makes no sense! I claim BS!

And I agree that the logic used on sens does paint him as scum but I don't think Vio paid any special attention to him or his role, thus invalidating the case. However, sens does seem to have been very silent this game.

And I looked back through the first 13 pages and I noticed that right before LSU gave his hint, edoc tried to speedlynch zimmah, with skillfusniper quickly posting after BWing on zimmah. FOS edoc and zimmah I don't think this is all that much of a case, but it did arouse my suspicion. But then edoc tried to be helpful in interpreting the clue, so I doubt he's scum because of that. Skillfusniper, on the other hand, doesn't seem all that protown to me, although his BW vote might be a joke vote. I think I might look back again at skill's posts, but TBH i don't really want to take the time to surf thru 20 pages of text... *moan*

Back in mah' day, the game was well over with by page 20! You hooligans take way too long!

-SG7 ( )

[dazza2008]

Why is GH7 FOS the dead guy? Does he want to lynch the dead? Seems a waste to me

[shieldgenerator7]

Why is GH7 FOS the dead guy? Does he want to lynch the dead? Seems a waste to me

Oh crash is zimmah dead? oop... I forgot. Me ole' noggin ain't what it used ta be.

[skillfusniper33]

Yes shield I did have a quick bandwagon vote for Zimmah, but that was more of a plan to try and get us off of all the joke voting, and start working some actual pressure.

I am pretty sure the SK would have killed off LSU since he was pointing them out, and not wanting LSU to continue to try and help lead to their lynch. Which leaves Zimmah being killed by mafia.

And that is a very bold statement that the Pigeon is the SK hippo, I don't possibly see that happening. I also think the rules explained the pigeon to be pro town.

All pigeons and informants are town in this game.

[thehippo8]

Yes shield I did have a quick bandwagon vote for Zimmah, but that was more of a plan to try and get us off of all the joke voting, and start working some actual pressure.

I am pretty sure the SK would have killed off LSU since he was pointing them out, and not wanting LSU to continue to try and help lead to their lynch. Which leaves Zimmah being killed by mafia.

And that is a very bold statement that the Pigeon is the SK hippo, I don't possibly see that happening. I also think the rules explained the pigeon to be pro town.

All pigeons and informants are town in this game.

But that is entirely my point, who says that the sk is not pro-town?

[dazza2008]

Yes shield I did have a quick bandwagon vote for Zimmah, but that was more of a plan to try and get us off of all the joke voting, and start working some actual pressure.

I am pretty sure the SK would have killed off LSU since he was pointing them out, and not wanting LSU to continue to try and help lead to their lynch. Which leaves Zimmah being killed by mafia.

And that is a very bold statement that the Pigeon is the SK hippo, I don't possibly see that happening. I also think the rules explained the pigeon to be pro town.

All pigeons and informants are town in this game.

But that is entirely my point, who says that the sk is not pro-town?

It is crazy. If the SK knows who the mafia are the game would be done quick. Also it would not be a sk it would be a vig. No?

Sometimes your posts make loads of sense and I think you are ok then you do some crazy shit

[shieldgenerator7]

I doubt we have any town vigs, TBH. I guess it's a possibility but it seems Vio said the only town PRs would be pigeons and informants. Right, Vio?

But it would be cool to have a town vig in this game

[chapcrap]

What! That makes no sense! I claim BS!

And I agree that the logic used on sens does paint him as scum but I don't think Vio paid any special attention to him or his role, thus invalidating the case. However, sens does seem to have been very silent this game.

And I looked back through the first 13 pages and I noticed that right before LSU gave his hint, edoc tried to speedlynch zimmah, with skillfusniper quickly posting after BWing on zimmah. FOS edoc and zimmah I don't think this is all that much of a case, but it did arouse my suspicion. But then edoc tried to be helpful in interpreting the clue, so I doubt he's scum because of that. Skillfusniper, on the other hand, doesn't seem all that protown to me, although his BW vote might be a joke vote. I think I might look back again at skill's posts, but TBH i don't really want to take the time to surf thru 20 pages of text... *moan*

Back in mah' day, the game was well over with by page 20! You hooligans take way too long!

-SG7 ( )

Ok, when you FOS someone who is already dead, I think that is a little bit screwy.

Hippo, you have to be wrong about the pigeon being an SK. That would be ridiculous. That doesn't add up at all. dazza is spot on with his assessment.

Even with LSU's riddle kind of pointing to a serial killer, that's all that it did, IMO. It doesn't really tell us how to find them except to say that the person is surely odd. And that doesn't even help, because as you can see from the OP, Vio has renumbered everyone after taking out the dead players. I was number 10 and now I'm number 8. So, even the numbers in front of people's names don't really help.

So, after reviewing the riddle, the clues, deaths, and actions (mods included) it seems to me that the only thing that LSU was saying was that there is a SK and all of the rest of the riddle was fluff.

[thehippo8]

What! That makes no sense! I claim BS!

And I agree that the logic used on sens does paint him as scum but I don't think Vio paid any special attention to him or his role, thus invalidating the case. However, sens does seem to have been very silent this game.

And I looked back through the first 13 pages and I noticed that right before LSU gave his hint, edoc tried to speedlynch zimmah, with skillfusniper quickly posting after BWing on zimmah. FOS edoc and zimmah I don't think this is all that much of a case, but it did arouse my suspicion. But then edoc tried to be helpful in interpreting the clue, so I doubt he's scum because of that. Skillfusniper, on the other hand, doesn't seem all that protown to me, although his BW vote might be a joke vote. I think I might look back again at skill's posts, but TBH i don't really want to take the time to surf thru 20 pages of text... *moan*

Back in mah' day, the game was well over with by page 20! You hooligans take way too long!

-SG7 ( )

Ok, when you FOS someone who is already dead, I think that is a little bit screwy.

Hippo, you have to be wrong about the pigeon being an SK. That would be ridiculous. That doesn't add up at all. dazza is spot on with his assessment.

Even with LSU's riddle kind of pointing to a serial killer, that's all that it did, IMO. It doesn't really tell us how to find them except to say that the person is surely odd. And that doesn't even help, because as you can see from the OP, Vio has renumbered everyone after taking out the dead players. I was number 10 and now I'm number 8. So, even the numbers in front of people's names don't really help.

So, after reviewing the riddle, the clues, deaths, and actions (mods included) it seems to me that the only thing that LSU was saying was that there is a SK and all of the rest of the riddle was fluff.

I agree with you completely! At least now we can stop anxting about the puzzle!

All I can suggest now is that we hammer the submariners and hope like hell that works!!