Actors Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

[jonty125]

I don't think you should tell the difference between vig and SK by their weapon

[safariguy5]

I don't think you should tell the difference between vig and SK by their weapon

This. I've had SKer's use guns, knives, fists, laser guns, whatever to make their kills. It's possible that the weapon may reveal some flavor about the person who used it, but all I see is two lone gunman in this case.

[drake_259]

What we got to add to the equation here is that Rodion was targeted. I think a vig is more likely to target him due to the fact that he was 90% he was scum anyway which would lead to think it is a new player who will be trigger happy but not new enough to know rodion is scum most games (someone like MOB for example). But this doesn't mean we have a more experienced player who is trigger happy.

However why would a SK want to target him? That i am not too sure of. Any Ideas?

[Victor Sullivan]

I don't think you should tell the difference between vig and SK by their weapon

This. I've had SKer's use guns, knives, fists, laser guns, whatever to make their kills. It's possible that the weapon may reveal some flavor about the person who used it, but all I see is two lone gunman in this case.

*shrugs* I suppose you're right.

-Sully

[safariguy5]

What we got to add to the equation here is that Rodion was targeted. I think a vig is more likely to target him due to the fact that he was 90% he was scum anyway which would lead to think it is a new player who will be trigger happy but not new enough to know rodion is scum most games (someone like MOB for example). But this doesn't mean we have a more experienced player who is trigger happy.

However why would a SK want to target him? That i am not too sure of. Any Ideas?

Well SKer wants to be the last person standing. So, he basically wants to shoot everyone. A good SKer will try to keep town and mafia numbers relatively even. If the town start losing members too quickly, the probability that the mafia kill targets the SKer increases. A good example of good SKer play would be Gangster Mafia. At the end, it was 2 townies, 1 mafia member and the SKer. Mafia killed a townie and the SKer killed the mafia member. Endgame, SKer win.

Whether or not this was a deliberate kill or just a random shot by the SKer I do not know. It could also be a very good town vig who picked up on a scumtell by Rodion and hit him.

However, the fact that one of the kills was stopped on Night 1 could signal either a vig or a SKer. I tend to lean towards SKer, but there are enough newer people here that it could be a noob vig. Too bad Conozo died, he could have inadvertently got lucky and blocked the SK or mafia kill.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Bgthebrain
blake
Zimmah
Mr. Squirrel
Jonty
drunkmonkey
edocsil (3)-Pancakemix, safariguy, drunkmonkey
victor sullivan
newguy
spiesr
mob deadly
pancakemix
drake 259
safariguy
No lynch

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

7 days until deadline.

[new guy1]

hey guys, just advanced warning, i am leaving this weekend for a paintball game. i will have my phone but it is in the mountains for 2 days. i will have my charger so when i get back from the game on day one i will try to remember to read up on everything before i pass out. if not then i will read it after day two. just wanted you all to know that.

[safariguy5]

hey guys, just advanced warning, i am leaving this weekend for a paintball game. i will have my phone but it is in the mountains for 2 days. i will have my charger so when i get back from the game on day one i will try to remember to read up on everything before i pass out. if not then i will read it after day two. just wanted you all to know that.

Lucky...what I wouldn't give to go woodsballing sometime.

[new guy1]

lol, its fulda gap, in NC. its the largest game in the state. im not missin it for anything

[zimmah]

lol, its fulda gap, in NC. its the largest game in the state. im not missin it for anything

sounds awesome. have fun.

[new guy1]

thank you, i will . im heavy AT so im takin out tanks most of the day . anyways, back to scum huntin'!

[pancakemix]

So if I had just shut up and let the day go by where would we be D3? We would be headed to no lynches and perusing ridiculous and trivial cases. In a way I am glad I am in the hotseat, its got people talking participating and thinking. Perhaps we will be able to get past my perceived misdeeds and get on to hanging scum. I will say this now, I am town and I intend to find and hang scum today. I do not intend to sit back and let another uneventful and wasted day go by.

Tracker is a hard one to investigate, there is lots of WIFOM involved and the chance of a busdriver ruins the whole process. It was better this way.

Well, if we hadn't it's highly likely we would've gotten at least one investigative result as opposed to nothing. Concrete evidence is what we need; lynches give us that but only in the rearview. Granted, it does allow some degree of certainty as we know now for a fact that drunkmonkey wasn't visited N1, but what good does that small tidbit do us? Keep in mind we're trying to solve a puzzle here and we need all the info we can get.

I'm going to sidetrack here for a moment and address something that's more theory-based than relevant to this game. I do believe that the lynch is the town's most powerful weapon. However, it's terribly unwieldy if used inefficiently. It requires a large number of us to collaborate and if we're wrong, it can be severely damaging depending on the revealed role. That's part of why I don't have much of a problem with D1 No Lynches. It gets info into the open and gives us the night to mull things over. It's a slow approach to the process but I believe it's more efficient than lynching for the sake of lynching.

That's a weak argument at best. A watcher can easily be countered if someone is/isn't visited by Player X, and if a busdriver screwed it up he can just as easily fix it by coming forward. I'm not sure what context you mean by WIFOM there, you'll have to clarify that.

[edocsil]

Lets say a watcher claims. He is telling the truth and barring a scum busdriver everything is largely verifiable. If you have a scum who claims tracker he "tracks" his scum mate and they agree in the morning. It is risky but if the game is close it is a gamble i would be comfortable pulling.

[pancakemix]

Lets say a watcher claims. He is telling the truth and barring a scum busdriver everything is largely verifiable. If you have a scum who claims tracker he "tracks" his scum mate and they agree in the morning. It is risky but if the game is close it is a gamble i would be comfortable pulling.

Why did you switch to tracker? A tracker can be easily faked, yes, but a watcher isn't comparable in that regard because there are too many variables. You're presenting an argument that doesn't apply to the situation and causes your earlier argument to fall apart as well.

[safariguy5]

Lets say a watcher claims. He is telling the truth and barring a scum busdriver everything is largely verifiable. If you have a scum who claims tracker he "tracks" his scum mate and they agree in the morning. It is risky but if the game is close it is a gamble i would be comfortable pulling.

Why did you switch to tracker? A tracker can be easily faked, yes, but a watcher isn't comparable in that regard because there are too many variables. You're presenting an argument that doesn't apply to the situation and causes your earlier argument to fall apart as well.

Yeah, the lynch was a town watcher...hardly a WIFOM role. Definitely more useful than a tracker and MUCH more difficult to fakeclaim.

[edocsil]

Lets say a watcher claims. He is telling the truth and barring a scum busdriver everything is largely verifiable. If you have a scum who claims tracker he "tracks" his scum mate and they agree in the morning. It is risky but if the game is close it is a gamble i would be comfortable pulling.

Why did you switch to tracker? A tracker can be easily faked, yes, but a watcher isn't comparable in that regard because there are too many variables. You're presenting an argument that doesn't apply to the situation and causes your earlier argument to fall apart as well.

That was a tracker, that would be correct. This really isn't a game I am on top of here... A ballsy scum could just claim no one visited his target. If there are few enough night actions the odds could really be in his favor. That being said PCM i really should have had to explain that to you. You have been around longer then me, you know how a watcher, a tracker, a cop, or any other role in the book for that matter, can be fooled. I don't get why you are grilling me over that detail when you should be able to readily supply the answer yourself. I suppose it is keeping the pressure on me and the conversation flowing, but I question if you were really looking for my answer of if you were looking for continued pressure.

[safariguy5]

Lets say a watcher claims. He is telling the truth and barring a scum busdriver everything is largely verifiable. If you have a scum who claims tracker he "tracks" his scum mate and they agree in the morning. It is risky but if the game is close it is a gamble i would be comfortable pulling.

Why did you switch to tracker? A tracker can be easily faked, yes, but a watcher isn't comparable in that regard because there are too many variables. You're presenting an argument that doesn't apply to the situation and causes your earlier argument to fall apart as well.

That was a tracker, that would be correct. This really isn't a game I am on top of here... A ballsy scum could just claim no one visited his target. If there are few enough night actions the odds could really be in his favor. That being said PCM i really should have had to explain that to you. You have been around longer then me, you know how a watcher, a tracker, a cop, or any other role in the book for that matter, can be fooled. I don't get why you are grilling me over that detail when you should be able to readily supply the answer yourself. I suppose it is keeping the pressure on me and the conversation flowing, but I question if you were really looking for my answer of if you were looking for continued pressure.

Ionno edoc, if we're really playing the whole Meta experience card here, let's take a look at you then.

Veteran player, logical, usually collected. Can rise to the occasion and play absolutely brilliantly or unconventionally.

This game: Apparently out of it, making mistakes, somewhat frustrated. Something seems "off".

I don't know what it is, but your gameplay is off this game and I'm not detecting a corresponding level of befuddlement in other games. So I get the feeling the role is affecting your gameplay this game, which usually screams scum or anti-town to me.

[edocsil]

I admit I am off here. I got tipped early today and some of me responses have been thoughtless. I am more then annoyed with myself. I was annoyed by the No Lynch D1 (there is argument for LN D1, it isn't for here or now) and when I saw another approaching I tipped my cards. Now I am trying to get my deck back in order but keep on dropping everything.

Anyhow, if this focus remains on me much longer I will play some more cards, but give me the benefit of the doubt that I have thought it was best to not do so yet for a reason.

[pancakemix]

Lets say a watcher claims. He is telling the truth and barring a scum busdriver everything is largely verifiable. If you have a scum who claims tracker he "tracks" his scum mate and they agree in the morning. It is risky but if the game is close it is a gamble i would be comfortable pulling.

Why did you switch to tracker? A tracker can be easily faked, yes, but a watcher isn't comparable in that regard because there are too many variables. You're presenting an argument that doesn't apply to the situation and causes your earlier argument to fall apart as well.

That was a tracker, that would be correct. This really isn't a game I am on top of here... A ballsy scum could just claim no one visited his target. If there are few enough night actions the odds could really be in his favor. That being said PCM i really should have had to explain that to you. You have been around longer then me, you know how a watcher, a tracker, a cop, or any other role in the book for that matter, can be fooled. I don't get why you are grilling me over that detail when you should be able to readily supply the answer yourself. I suppose it is keeping the pressure on me and the conversation flowing, but I question if you were really looking for my answer of if you were looking for continued pressure.

"Ballsy" is a big qualifier there. It would have to be a calculated move to claim such a role, and would almost certainly not work in the long run because eventually someone has to get targeted. Another thing to consider: who is it making that claim? In this case, it's soundman. Now, I'll have to admit I'm not too familiar with him, but I know he's newer so he probably wouldn't take into account any of the above scenarios simply based on the fact that he doesn't have the experience to make those judgements.

With that said, I can bring this back to the point I was trying to make. If you had taken into consideration the logistics of such a claim and the experience level of the one claiming it, you probably wouldn't have hammered. But you did hammer. Based on the time between claim and hammer it's clear that this was a relatively quick decision, which can mean one of two things:

1. You were overanxious to get a lynch.
2. You saw an opportunity to waste a lynch on a town power role and took it.

Either way, it proved costly for us because we lost a power role and are that much more in the dark.

[edocsil]

How much longer should I have waited PCM? An hour? Two, perhaps even 3 hours to really get it down to the final moments. O wait, I had class. I had to choose then to either Vote and Lynch or to come back from lecture and see if someone else had the balls to do what I did not. Perhaps I should have let someone else take the fall for it, maybe a scum would have jumped on for an easy hammer.

Also, Watcher is not town power, that is reserved to Cop, Joat, Doc and Vig. Those are the roles that are absolutely devastating to loose, especially early on. I had cause to believe he was lying (4th claimed investigative role) I took a gamble and I was wrong.

[jonty125]

Ionno edoc, if we're really playing the whole Meta experience card here, let's take a look at you then.

Veteran player, logical, usually collected. Can rise to the occasion and play absolutely brilliantly or unconventionally.

This game: Apparently out of it, making mistakes, somewhat frustrated. Something seems "off".

I don't know what it is, but your gameplay is off this game and I'm not detecting a corresponding level of befuddlement in other games. So I get the feeling the role is affecting your gameplay this game, which usually screams scum or anti-town to me.

I don't normally vote based on metagaming but I've played with edoc a few times and I aren't willing to "give him the benefit of the doubt" vote edoc

[edocsil]

What? No love from Jonty? Have you ever seen me act exceptionally illogically?

Anyhow, there are only 6 days left and and we have no real other cases besides me at the moment. This is only going to end with me claiming a few days down the road an no time left for further sleuthing.

I am Randle McMurphy from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and as I said I am town. I am a bodyguard, I can protect any one person a night, if a kill is attempted the target lives, but I have a 50% chance of dieing.

I protected Drunkmonkey N1 so when soundman claimed no actions against DM I assumed he was a bluffing scum and hung him. I did not consider that I could have been roleblocked, which is more likely then him lying for some reason as a townie. Anyhow, congratulations guys you smoked out a protective role.

[Victor Sullivan]

*sigh* If it's any consolation, I believed you.

-Sully

[drunkmonkey]

unvote

Back to the drawing board...

[safariguy5]

What? No love from Jonty? Have you ever seen me act exceptionally illogically?

Anyhow, there are only 6 days left and and we have no real other cases besides me at the moment. This is only going to end with me claiming a few days down the road an no time left for further sleuthing.

I am Randle McMurphy from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and as I said I am town. I am a bodyguard, I can protect any one person a night, if a kill is attempted the target lives, but I have a 50% chance of dieing.

I protected Drunkmonkey N1 so when soundman claimed no actions against DM I assumed he was a bluffing scum and hung him. I did not consider that I could have been roleblocked, which is more likely then him lying for some reason as a townie. Anyhow, congratulations guys you smoked out a protective role.

Hold on a minute, I'm Ray Arnold, from Jurassic Park, and I'm also a Town Bodyguard. Granted, I'm not told whether or not I have a % chance of dying, but what are the odds we have TWO Town Bodyguards? On top of an already dead Town Jailkeeper. Different investigative roles I can see, but two of the same role?