[ACC Round 2] 1st Reg. v. AOD [25-24] of 51pts - Final

[jpcloet]

Truly JP, I totally respect you and what you have done for CC regarding clans and I don't want to continue this. So I'm sorry this situation even reared it's ugly head. So I will speak for my clan now ( hope you agree Brock ), we want to have fun, but play within the rules and no-one intentionally tried to break anything it just happened.

If that is truly the case then your MOW should come out and say that no advantage was actually gained and thus the Poker game can stand. This would be a huge precedent setting move. I like innovation and doing the right thing.

[Agent 86]

You can keep on fishing, not taking your bait anymore. See ya

[jpcloet]

You can keep on fishing, not taking your bait anymore. See ya

See ya later then. That's not fishing, you talk about integrity and then don't back it up.

[kennys777]

You can keep on fishing, not taking your bait anymore. See ya

See ya later then. That's not fishing, you talk about integrity and then don't back it up.

I think he was talking to me...Definitely wasn't baiting though, just trying to stay involved.

[AgentSmith88]

but play within the rules and no-one intentionally tried to break anything it just happened.

So you're saying if I didn't intentionally run you over while I was drunk driving it would be okay because "it just happened"?

You've also found out why i'm not MOW because I post stupid shit when I'm angry and I've been drinking.

On the one hand I think it's stupid that we win based on someone barely missing the 12 hour rule in a 1v1 game. On the other hand with all the other crap it feels like karma.

[Ickyketseddie]

Ok ok seems to be getting heated again. Lets leave it at that shall we. Poker was voided as agreed by both Brock and JP so lets put that to bed. The score is what it is and will have to be decided by DJ if there is a further infringement on our part.

I stand by what i originally said that i had enjoyable tough games against you all and i hope we can agree the games themselves were lots of fun even if this thread isn't.

IF we get the decision we all agree its been a good challenge and would be very satisfied to have beaten a well established clan like yourselves.

IF you get the decision then good war and well played. I'm happy however it turns out, its so close both clans deserve it IMO.

So lets tentatively wait and see what DJ rules.

BTW i think you should rebrand



(please take this banter in the lighthearted way its meant and lets restore some hilarity to this thread! )

[codierose]

well put

[jpcloet]

Poker was voided as agreed by both Brock and JP so lets put that to bed.

I did not agree to that and I was given no real options. I was forced to accept the replay game. The fact that this comes done to a ruling shows the problem with this along with the fact DJ failed to penalize your team when it was originally brought to his attention. AOD will recognize this as an AOD win as we won Poker and the Tie-breaker which should have been used as the replacement game even though it appears it was not needed. If you continue on with the ACC, best of luck, don't let it come down to a decision.

[Ickyketseddie]

Poker was voided as agreed by both Brock and JP so lets put that to bed.

I did not agree to that and I was given no real options. I was forced to accept the replay game. The fact that this comes done to a ruling shows the problem with this along with the fact DJ failed to penalize your team when it was originally brought to his attention. AOD will recognize this as an AOD win as we won Poker and the Tie-breaker which should have been used as the replacement game even though it appears it was not needed. If you continue on with the ACC, best of luck, don't let it come down to a decision.

Then i was mis-informed.

Either way i don't want all that to start again so i refer to my previous statement. All the best.

[Teflon Kris]

on top of not following the 12 hour fog rule in multiple games.

Still waiting for a link to the fog rule they broke?

Um, you posted them yourself. (Check page 5 of this thread. Cricket, Indian Empire, and World 2.1 they didn't wait 12 hrs in any of them). We just happened to win the games that they actually mattered in. While technically it won't affect the outcome of the match, they still broke the rule multiple times.

I respect the fact that you are undertaking a tourney like this, but don't be a dick. You know they broke multiple rules and while you did follow the letter of the law with the 12 hour stuff, all of their home games should have been random and you know it. I understand why you didn't do that (first and foremost a shitload of work for you) and I know jp has been up in your shit, but we have legitimate gripes.

Respect to GG for a well fought match aside of the B.S.

These issues are some of the reasons we never joined tournies like the ccCup in the first place. I expect we will only be doing regular challenges from here out so we can avoid these issues and make the rules clear and enforce them.

(fyi the original deciding game: Game 9734213

So, they only broke the rule in game you won?

I've checked umpteen games where they have been accused any they didn't conquer or annihilate any of your positions, so they didn't break the rule.

[Teflon Kris]

Poker was voided as agreed by both Brock and JP so lets put that to bed.

I did not agree to that and I was given no real options. I was forced to accept the replay game. The fact that this comes done to a ruling shows the problem with this along with the fact DJ failed to penalize your team when it was originally brought to his attention. AOD will recognize this as an AOD win as we won Poker and the Tie-breaker which should have been used as the replacement game even though it appears it was not needed. If you continue on with the ACC, best of luck, don't let it come down to a decision.

We've had this discussion jp, apparently you were under "duress" when you suggested voiding and re-oplaying poker, in this thread.

I don't know where you live and haven't left my country for over a year !! I'm not sure I've ever actually put anyone under duress.

Sorry, but there is no way out of the fact that you suggested voiding the game and proceeded when your suggestion was then offerred to you. You had a choice of your suggestion, or continuing with poker. You made an unkucky choice.

[Leehar]

Sorry, but there is no way out of the fact that you suggested voiding the game and proceeded when your suggestion was then offerred to you. You had a choice of your suggestion, or continuing with poker. You made an unkucky choice.

No offense, but as TD that seems a disconcerting sentiment. I really don't think these things should come down to choice, and it worries me that there are these open-ended holes in the format.

[Teflon Kris]

Sorry, but there is no way out of the fact that you suggested voiding the game and proceeded when your suggestion was then offerred to you. You had a choice of your suggestion, or continuing with poker. You made an unkucky choice.

No offense, but as TD that seems a disconcerting sentiment. I really don't think these things should come down to choice, and it worries me that there are these open-ended holes in the format.

Yep, you will see loopholes being tightly shut for future rounds.

[kennys777]

Sorry, but there is no way out of the fact that you suggested voiding the game and proceeded when your suggestion was then offerred to you. You had a choice of your suggestion, or continuing with poker. You made an unkucky choice.

No offense, but as TD that seems a disconcerting sentiment. I really don't think these things should come down to choice, and it worries me that there are these open-ended holes in the format.

Yep, you will see loopholes being tightly shut for future rounds.

Loopholes shut? Are you kidding me? Your poor management skills need to be shut! What a joke of a decision. The recent infractions brought to your attention were also discarded like this entire thread? Horribly run tournament, poor management of rules, and definitely poor opponents in terms of integrity for the rules. Thankfully you don't make the laws of my country, criminals would be running rampant in the streets!

Good luck GG, no hard feelings, and anything that has happened here can stay here from my perspective. The situation is closed and done...

Hope you win the thing!

[jpcloet]

Sorry, but there is no way out of the fact that you suggested voiding the game and proceeded when your suggestion was then offerred to you. You had a choice of your suggestion, or continuing with poker. You made an unkucky choice.

I find your decision to be very "unkucky" and I certainly don't accept it.

If this is your final decision, it certainly lacks a lot of facts. Seems more like an opinion to me. Fact is that I was not given the choice to keep Poker, but rather I had the choice not to say anything. We were forced to play the replay as we all agreed (implied) that there was an advantage to GG, which turned out to be false. Hence, the replay is void and Poker should and can stand. So there is a way out and I can think of a few others, like using the tie-breaker which was the original request. I gave you many outs and my inbox/messenger is filling with comments as to a biased TO. Everyone seems to have an opinion it seems.

[AgentSmith88]

on top of not following the 12 hour fog rule in multiple games.

Still waiting for a link to the fog rule they broke?

Um, you posted them yourself. (Check page 5 of this thread. Cricket, Indian Empire, and World 2.1 they didn't wait 12 hrs in any of them). We just happened to win the games that they actually mattered in. While technically it won't affect the outcome of the match, they still broke the rule multiple times.

I respect the fact that you are undertaking a tourney like this, but don't be a dick. You know they broke multiple rules and while you did follow the letter of the law with the 12 hour stuff, all of their home games should have been random and you know it. I understand why you didn't do that (first and foremost a shitload of work for you) and I know jp has been up in your shit, but we have legitimate gripes.

Respect to GG for a well fought match aside of the B.S.

These issues are some of the reasons we never joined tournies like the ccCup in the first place. I expect we will only be doing regular challenges from here out so we can avoid these issues and make the rules clear and enforce them.

(fyi the original deciding game: Game 9734213

So, they only broke the rule in game you won?

I've checked umpteen games where they have been accused any they didn't conquer or annihilate any of your positions, so they didn't break the rule.

You need to go back and read the entire post I made that you quoted. I was talking about how GG broke the 12 hour rule in multiple games. The fact that many of them didn't make a difference in the outcome because we still won the game was besides the point. I was pointing to our annoyance, not any evidence that we should win.

I still find it hilarious that you keep responding to all the 12 hour bullshit when I've kept mentioning that all of their home games should have been random but you didn't do that. Apparently you like to follow some rules to the letter and shrug off ones that will inconvenience you.

Some of my clanmates care whether we win this and continue on, but I checked out long ago. Honestly I've found the whole thing to be a joke at this point.

I echo Kenny's sentiments - everything in this thread can stay here and we can leave it at that GG.

[Teflon Kris]

Sorry, but there is no way out of the fact that you suggested voiding the game and proceeded when your suggestion was then offerred to you. You had a choice of your suggestion, or continuing with poker. You made an unkucky choice.

No offense, but as TD that seems a disconcerting sentiment. I really don't think these things should come down to choice, and it worries me that there are these open-ended holes in the format.

Yep, you will see loopholes being tightly shut for future rounds.

Loopholes shut? Are you kidding me? Your poor management skills need to be shut! What a joke of a decision. The recent infractions brought to your attention were also discarded like this entire thread? Horribly run tournament, poor management of rules, and definitely poor opponents in terms of integrity for the rules. Thankfully you don't make the laws of my country, criminals would be running rampant in the streets!

Good luck GG, no hard feelings, and anything that has happened here can stay here from my perspective. The situation is closed and done...

Hope you win the thing!

Criminals are rampant running the streets

Due to UK fascism trying to copy your style we have lots of gun gangs and meaningless riots too

And embarrassing poverty for a 'first world' country, and unnecessary customer service confidentaility, ID confirming life-wasting surveys of satisfaction, burgers made out of balls and gristle, deforestation, crap trains, life wasting traffic jams, gun toting movies, celebrations of bank accounts, bonuses for failure, crap political chices, the myth of democracy, oil crusades, being one of the most hated nations on earth, being ashamed to say where you are from on the continent, teenage pregnancy, trailor trash, white trash, smack, crack, coke, Jeremy Kyle aka Jerry Springer, ...

Yeah thanks.

You guys have still not shown where GG broke the FOG rule (CLA version (and only version mentionned by anyone so far)).

[QoH]

I want to butt in here...

You're saying that the entire criminal situation in the UK is because of the US?

[Teflon Kris]

Sorry, but there is no way out of the fact that you suggested voiding the game and proceeded when your suggestion was then offerred to you. You had a choice of your suggestion, or continuing with poker. You made an unkucky choice.

I find your decision to be very "unkucky" and I certainly don't accept it.

Your decision, along with your decision to accuse GG of breaking the FOW rule in games they won.

Also, your decision to claim that somehow I intended the fog rule to be something other than the CLA defintion, and your decision to refuse to say whatever this alternative is.

As yet, there has been no example of how GG's FOW incompetence, or late joining, or deadbeating, actually resulted in you losing, or not winning a game.

Fine that things are investigated but if rules are broken then no action is taken.

Had other clans elsewhere been more on the ball then GG would have had home random games. Had that happened you would have had an easy and perhaps hollow victory.

As it is, it was unlucky you decided to have a replay - you will find your suggestion earlier in this thread.

Its a bit of a shame for GG as they progressed due to your decision and had mud thrown at therm.

The amount of fuss is not commensurate with the situation.

Its not exactly the clan league final situation here is it!

[jpcloet]

You guys have still not shown where GG broke the FOG rule (CLA version (and only version mentionned by anyone so far)).

You told us twice to look at specific games. It is your duty as the TO to review all the games, not ours in the event of a conflict. I sent you a way of finding lots of 12H rule variations via pm. The CLA definition has not been widely accepted and I have yet to see it used. AOD is not a member of the CLA anymore for various reasons. Get off your lazy ass and do the work you should be doing instead of asking us to do it.

[jpcloet]

Its not exactly the clan league final situation here is it!

Nice cheap shot. And about time you did some research. The league final was about esc cards and another rule that was not a common one. As there was no rule in place no new rule was invented. Also another site feature that is missing. Since you went for a low blow, I'm not letting you get away with this poor decision, and I'm pulling out all the stops.

[Teflon Kris]

I want to butt in here...

You're saying that the entire criminal situation in the UK is because of the US?

Not entire, but if it weren't for the "special welashionship" and blind copying of US capitalism, as well as selling public services to the US (!!), and, more importantly, US culture, Britain would not be the joke of Europe.

Nowhere else in Europe is there such a predominence of nasty, gobby and oftentimes violent creatures.

Nowhere else in Europe do parents threaten to take teachers to court for criticising disruptive student behaviour.

Kenny went too far with his right-wing rubbish and has now entered a debate where he cannot win by the criteria of Humanity.

Forgot to mention the psycho serial shooting wierdos that we now have too - the guys that decide to kill a few dozen random strangers as part of their wierd suicide mission.

Thanks for that too.

[Teflon Kris]

You guys have still not shown where GG broke the FOG rule (CLA version (and only version mentionned by anyone so far)).

You told us twice to look at specific games. It is your duty as the TO to review all the games, not ours in the event of a conflict. I sent you a way of finding lots of 12H rule variations via pm. The CLA definition has not been widely accepted and I have yet to see it used. AOD is not a member of the CLA anymore for various reasons. Get off your lazy ass and do the work you should be doing instead of asking us to do it.

What is the definition that you claim I apparently meant instead of the CLA definiton then?

I find it wierd that you seem to know my mind better than me, claim I don't know my mind but refuse to say what is in it !

I sat on my ass following up your false accusations of FOW violations thanks. If I'd have got off my ass I would have had much more fun. Thanks

[Teflon Kris]

Its not exactly the clan league final situation here is it!

Nice cheap shot. And about time you did some research. The league final was about esc cards and another rule that was not a common one. As there was no rule in place no new rule was invented. Also another site feature that is missing. Since you went for a low blow, I'm not letting you get away with this poor decision, and I'm pulling out all the stops.

Similar to you complaining about a GG deadbeat.

Although not similar at all is it?

Were GG cheating?

Good - if you can get a time machine, go back in time and not suggest or decide to have poker re-made then this whole 'debate' about FOW will have never happened.

[Teflon Kris]

However much you guys go on, the following isn't going to happen:

(1) Retrospective action due to GG being slow making/joining in the first place.

(2) The agreed re-make of the poker game being de-agreed and becoming void, with the actual poker game being de-voided and therefore a complete 180 degree change of the agreement and all concerned's decisions.

(3) A new rule about deadbeating to be introduced retrospectively.

(4) A fictional version of the FOW rule to be used where GG lose all games they started early in but didn't attack their opponent.

(5) The tie-breaker game to be counted even though there is no tie to break.

(6) Any other turnaround of rules or previous decisions.