Doodle Earth [Quenched]

[gimil]

i would change tanzania to jsut africa but i like the map and would deffo play it =)




gimil

[nagerous]

I think its a great map, just try and throw in 6 or so territories here and there

[Spockers]

The point of the foundry is to weed out the crap so only quality maps make it though.

well there are obviously a few people who don't think that its crap, myself included.

Thats why people with a sense of taste (ie: Andy, keyogi) have a final say. Seems they have some sense of what is and isn't a steaming pile of crap.

[t.e.c]

you seem to be getting worked up about something that you should ignore.

[freezie]

The point of the foundry is to weed out the crap so only quality maps make it though.

well there are obviously a few people who don't think that its crap, myself included.

Thats why people with a sense of taste (ie: Andy, keyogi) have a final say. Seems they have some sense of what is and isn't a steaming pile of crap.

Yup, and you don't, so you don't belong here.

As far as I am concerned, I thought Lack has a word too.

[mibi]

i have no problems with this, or any map, as long as it meets some standards of gameplay and design.

[Coleman]

I think its a great map, just try and throw in 6 or so territories here and there

^ Would defeat the point of the map.

[nagerous]

im not sure if they will ever quench it otherwise, someone could be eliminated in a 6 player without even having a turn, unless the game was somehow manipulated so you only got 1 army for every 3 territories you own, although I dont think thats possible

[Coleman]

im not sure if they will ever quench it otherwise, someone could be eliminated in a 6 player without even having a turn, unless the game was somehow manipulated so you only got 1 army for every 3 territories you own, although I dont think thats possible

Actually it is, although it would be very difficult to code. VERY difficult. You'd have to make all sorts of extra negative and positive bonus territories. Now I'm tempted to see if I could do it... The first step would be making every combination of 3 worth -2, then...

EDIT: Possible in theory but in practice there is simply no way it would work. There are way to many groups, it would take a team months to write.

[nagerous]

lol, hope I havent given you too much of a project

[EvilOtto]

Thats why people with a sense of taste (ie: Andy, keyogi) have a final say. Seems they have some sense of what is and isn't a steaming pile of crap.

There are people here that play CC more than Andy or Keyogi or Lack do. There are people here with more map making experience. There are people here that like playing huge maps and those that don't. There are people here that play a lot of 6 player triples games and people that like to play 3 player standard games. Some people prefer real-time games and some prefer sequential.

Since CC has such a diversity of players, preferences and game styles, it needs an equally diverse collection of maps to choose from. If you are complaining about this map because it doesn't fit your personal game preferences, then you are not making a useful argument. If you can say "this territory needs fewer borders" and explain why, then let's hear it. If you have a comment on how to improve the graphics, that might be a good comment to leave here.

If Andy wants to shut the map down he will leave a message saying exactly that and he will explain why. Otherwise, he is just stating his opinion and we all have the right to agree or disagree.

My opinion is that if we need huge maps with 60+ territories, then we also need some small maps. If you play a six person game on this map and someone gets wiped out in the first turn, I bet the other 5 players will still have lots of fun. Someone is always first to go, often just from bad luck, so why not get it over with quick? I don't think every map needs to be a commercial for Photoshop; the hand drawn crayon look is refreshing and fun and fits this map's theme well.

Would this map be better with a couple more territories (maybe 21 territories would be better for 3/4 person games)? Can the graphics be improved more? Will it play better if some borders are moved? I bet Evil Dimwit (or whatever his name ends up being) would love help answering these questions.

[wcaclimbing]

If you play a six person game on this map and someone gets wiped out in the first turn, I bet the other 5 players will still have lots of fun. Someone is always first to go, often just from bad luck, so why not get it over with quick?

That made me think of the 30 people that get eliminated before their turn even starts in the world 2.1 battle royals. LOL.

I don't think every map needs to be a commercial for Photoshop; the hand drawn crayon look is refreshing and fun and fits this map's theme well.

Agree 100%

[Evil DIMwit]

im not sure if they will ever quench it otherwise, someone could be eliminated in a 6 player without even having a turn, unless the game was somehow manipulated so you only got 1 army for every 3 territories you own, although I dont think thats possible

Actually it is, although it would be very difficult to code. VERY difficult. You'd have to make all sorts of extra negative and positive bonus territories. Now I'm tempted to see if I could do it... The first step would be making every combination of 3 worth -2, then...

EDIT: Possible in theory but in practice there is simply no way it would work. There are way to many groups, it would take a team months to write.

And, even if someone, say, wrote a program that automatically finds and records every combination of countries needed for the roughly 143,000 subcontinents needed for this particular effect, the resulting XML file would be, according to my calculations over two million lines long. And this is if the territory sum stays 18 -- if it goes up to 21 we're looking at twelve million lines.

On the other hand, if we got it down to twelve territories it would only need to be 26,000 lines long.

Actually, I'm not entirely opposed to adding just three more territories -- especially if the name "World 0.5" does end up sticking.

[dolemite]

You could add three more by taking out/moving the compass and the sun, then add Hawaii (would be important to a little kid) and Japan. For the third one, split Canada and USA more accurately and add in Mexico.

Not saying you need to do it, that's just one way it could be done.

[vakEirn79]

I don't want to get tangled up in a huge argument, if that's what it comes to, but I do want to see this map eventually get quenched, so here's my opinion of the map:

I agree with a lot of what EvilOtto and others have said already. It doesn't hurt CC to have a large variety of maps, as long as all of them are playable for players who are interested in playing them. While part of the Foundry Process is gathering opinions, is there really a point to continue arguing after said opinion has been stated and taken into account? There are enough players who have expressed interest in this map that it should see a fair amount of play. Also keep in mind that Map Foundry posters are a fairly biased sample of the CC population, since most casual players probably don't take time to examine the technical aspects of a map. I think the unique style of this map will help to attract players from that subset of the population. Now, if someone has done a lot of playtesting, and found that good initial placement (i.e. luck) is a huge factor on this map, then that might be a reason to drastically change or kill it. So far, I haven't seen anyone give conclusive evidence of that.

Personally, I will definitely give this map a try. As long as luck plays a comparable role on this map as on others, I think it would be a good option if I'm looking for some shorter games. My first instinct would be that this map is better suited for No Cards or Escalating Rate, since if someone hits a Mixed set early in Flat Rate, they'd probably end up with a huge advantage.

Technical merits and faults aside, I think this map has a very distinctive, fun feel to it. If you're focused on grand strategies and careful maneuvering, this might not be a good map for you. But if you're playing for fun, if you can enjoy a map for its uniqueness and flavor instead of what it takes to win, this map looks to have lots of potential. The hand-drawn, almost whimsical style helps promote that sense of a casual game. Also, I can't help but smile at the fact that holding 8 or 9 territories means I'd own half of the world

I try to judge the map for what it's trying to accomplish, not for how well it translates other maps' strengths. There are several maps in development right now which I have no interest in playing, but the developers have reasons for making them, and other players have reasons to support the development. Those maps have a role, be it detailing a geographical location or introducing a new gameplay mechcanic, and so does this. Nobody is forcing Evil Dimwit to continue developing the map, but he seems to enjoy making it, and there are a good number of players willing to see it quenched. Since it's progressed this far without a mod officially killing development, why not give it a chance to see play?

[wcaclimbing]

And, even if someone, say, wrote a program that automatically finds and records every combination of countries needed for the roughly 143,000 subcontinents needed for this particular effect, the resulting XML file would be, according to my calculations over two million lines long. And this is if the territory sum stays 18 -- if it goes up to 21 we're looking at twelve million lines.

On the other hand, if we got it down to twelve territories it would only need to be 26,000 lines long.

WRONG!!!

since each set is 3 needs to be in the code, and there are 18 countries,
you do 18choose3.

on graphing calculators, its [18 nCr 3], which is only 816 sets of countries.


You can also solve it by hand:

you do [ (18x17x16)/(3x2x1)] that also equals 816 sets.


But this wouldnt work anyways. If you held 4 countries, that would count as holding 2 of the sets of 3. since each of those would be -2, you would actually gain negative armies.




I am on my high school math team. we have had to solve things like this many times. I know I am right.

[Coleman]

And, even if someone, say, wrote a program that automatically finds and records every combination of countries needed for the roughly 143,000 subcontinents needed for this particular effect, the resulting XML file would be, according to my calculations over two million lines long. And this is if the territory sum stays 18 -- if it goes up to 21 we're looking at twelve million lines.

On the other hand, if we got it down to twelve territories it would only need to be 26,000 lines long.

WRONG!!!

since each set is 3 needs to be in the code, and there are 18 countries,
you do 18choose3.

on graphing calculators, its [18 nCr 3], which is only 816 sets of countries.

You can also solve it by hand:

you do [ (18x17x16)/(3x2x1)] that also equals 816 sets.

But this wouldnt work anyways. If you held 4 countries, that would count as holding 2 of the sets of 3. since each of those would be -2, you would actually gain negative armies.

I am on my high school math team. we have had to solve things like this many times. I know I am right.

Well you are right, what we were talking about when we say hundreds of thousands would be the correcting code on the combinations of 4, and then the correcting code on combinations of 5 and so on.

By correcting code I mean that all combinations of 4 would need to be +3 and then all combinations of 5 would need to be -something and so on up to owning 17 territories. (18 is pointless because then you've won)

So if you do 18nCr4 then you are looking at thousands.

Which gets me back to my possible in theory, but in practice... Yeah...

[Coleman]

I don't want to get tangled up in a huge argument, if that's what it comes to, but I do want to see this map eventually get quenched, so here's my opinion of the map:

I agree with a lot of what EvilOtto and others have said already. It doesn't hurt CC to have a large variety of maps, as long as all of them are playable for players who are interested in playing them. While part of the Foundry Process is gathering opinions, is there really a point to continue arguing after said opinion has been stated and taken into account? There are enough players who have expressed interest in this map that it should see a fair amount of play. Also keep in mind that Map Foundry posters are a fairly biased sample of the CC population, since most casual players probably don't take time to examine the technical aspects of a map. I think the unique style of this map will help to attract players from that subset of the population. Now, if someone has done a lot of play testing, and found that good initial placement (i.e. luck) is a huge factor on this map, then that might be a reason to drastically change or kill it. So far, I haven't seen anyone give conclusive evidence of that.

Personally, I will definitely give this map a try. As long as luck plays a comparable role on this map as on others, I think it would be a good option if I'm looking for some shorter games. My first instinct would be that this map is better suited for No Cards or Escalating Rate, since if someone hits a Mixed set early in Flat Rate, they'd probably end up with a huge advantage.

Technical merits and faults aside, I think this map has a very distinctive, fun feel to it. If you're focused on grand strategies and careful maneuvering, this might not be a good map for you. But if you're playing for fun, if you can enjoy a map for its uniqueness and flavor instead of what it takes to win, this map looks to have lots of potential. The hand-drawn, almost whimsical style helps promote that sense of a casual game. Also, I can't help but smile at the fact that holding 8 or 9 territories means I'd own half of the world

I try to judge the map for what it's trying to accomplish, not for how well it translates other maps' strengths. There are several maps in development right now which I have no interest in playing, but the developers have reasons for making them, and other players have reasons to support the development. Those maps have a role, be it detailing a geographical location or introducing a new game play mechanic, and so does this. Nobody is forcing Evil Dimwit to continue developing the map, but he seems to enjoy making it, and there are a good number of players willing to see it quenched. Since it's progressed this far without a mod officially killing development, why not give it a chance to see play?

To get things back to the way they should be going. ^ This.

[Evil DIMwit]

And, even if someone, say, wrote a program that automatically finds and records every combination of countries needed for the roughly 143,000 subcontinents needed for this particular effect, the resulting XML file would be, according to my calculations over two million lines long. And this is if the territory sum stays 18 -- if it goes up to 21 we're looking at twelve million lines.

On the other hand, if we got it down to twelve territories it would only need to be 26,000 lines long.

WRONG!!!

since each set is 3 needs to be in the code, and there are 18 countries,
you do 18choose3.

on graphing calculators, its [18 nCr 3], which is only 816 sets of countries.


You can also solve it by hand:

you do [ (18x17x16)/(3x2x1)] that also equals 816 sets.


But this wouldnt work anyways. If you held 4 countries, that would count as holding 2 of the sets of 3. since each of those would be -2, you would actually gain negative armies.




I am on my high school math team. we have had to solve things like this many times. I know I am right.

Well, if it doesn't work, fix it... this is what I did, in a similar vein:

Assuming that the minimum new troops per turn is one, just having a single territory should get you a -2 bonus. Now, if you have two territories, you'd have -4, so you need an extra bonus of +2 for each combination of two that you have. But then if you have three, that's three ones and three combinations of two, which cancels out, so you need an extra bonus of -2 for each combination of three. of course, if you have four territories -- that's four -2, plus six +2 (4 nCr 2 in calculator notation), plus four -2 (4 nCr 3), so you need an additional +4 for each of set of 4 to compensate. If you have five, you get five -2, ten each +2 and -2, and another five +4, which ends up being 10, so each of those is worth -12. Now, if you have six, that's 6*-2 + 15*2 + 20*-2 + 15*4 + 6*-12, which adds up to -34, but since you want to get two armies a turn now, each combination of six only needs to be worth -33...

...and so on up to the 17-territory bonuses. Actually, that comes out to a lot more than two million lines for eighteen territories. I guess I got it wrong the first time. Since each continent in an XML file has six lines plus the number of territories it has, the final sum is more like four million. How slow would that run?

[unriggable]

@ the guy with an R2D2 as a avatar -
If a map goes for fifteen pages, CHANCES ARE that people find it interesting.

@ whoever said they would play a six player game on this:
Nobody would play six player on this.

I really want to have this map quenched, it looks awesome. It's like nothing so far on the map, I mean there are maps released every day that are just repeats of what is already made, except in a different location. This is very cookie-cutter.

[KEYOGI]

What else should this map be called?

It's A Small World After All
20% [ 12 ]
World War Wee
16% [ 10 ]
Conquer Club Jr.
36% [ 22 ]
Doodle Earth
21% [ 13 ]
Where I Attacked Last Summer
5% [ 3 ]

Total Votes : 60

[Evil DIMwit]

Wow, that tangent went on so long I forgot what I had left to fix.

Unfortunately, the computer I have all of my files on is sick so I couldn't really change anything if I wanted to unless that gets better.

[Keredrex]

Actually Either name works for me ..... but i think the map... which I like... Needs some sort of option something different to draw people to play the board...

[Iliad]

I reckon Irakistan should be changed to Chinastan maybe? I dunno. I jsut don't like Irakistan.

[fireedud]

Evil Dimwit, I think your stuck with your name, cause if u put dim, it's confusable with the other cartographer, if you put Wit, it implieas that you're smart, and if you put dimwit, it implies that your stupid ( and it is slightly long), and if you put evil dimwit, What you wrote wouldn't make sense because you'll be evil (not to mention how long that would be).



Nvm, If you put evil dimwit, It would only be long, and it would make sense because, you would be stipud at bing evil!