Adair410 & Joey3GA again [WARNED] KRK

by **HaireWolf1** on Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:10 pm

Look at the numbers (stats) I gave...not the number of games they have "teamed" up but the stats in those games is astronomically in favor of my argument.

by **Joey3GA** on Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:06 pm

I can't believe I'm having to do this, but I guess some people have no lives or anything better to do than to analyze games and try to find reasons thing didn't go their way in the game. You're obviously not a statistician, because you would know it takes more than crunching the numbers on the amount of times a person attacks another, but taking into account all variables that drive the strategy to move. Let me list a few of them for you:

Starting configuration
Starting configuration in reference to the 2 easiest continents to acquire and hold (South America & Australia)
Attacking due to leverage in #'s 7 vs. 3 instead of 7 vs. 5 to increase fortifications
Attacking due to leverage in #'s 7 vs. 3 instead of 7 vs. 5 to try and take a card
Attacking due to leverage in #'s 7 vs. 3 instead of 7 vs. 5 to try to get additional countries for increased reinforcements on the following turn.
Continent acquirement
Continent destruction
Amount of countries a player has to reduce the amount of reinforcements allowed (taking a card from someone with 15 countries to they only get 4 reinforcements vs. someone who has 12 or less)
Players buildup around or nearby your fortifications
Ability to take a player out of the game
A players likelihood of trying to take you out of the game (decision whether to flee or attack)
# of players in the game
Retaliation (not a good strategy to win, but I see it frequently here)
Good rolls vs bad rolls

I can really go on and on. I know each one of you out there complaining considers all of these things and more when taking your turns, if you don't, there's something wrong with you, and maybe you need the remedial course on strategy for Risk. The fact is that you have to dissect every move and the strategy behind it to get the real picture. If you tried to do that, you would see that there is no bias to our moves based on favorability towards one another. We are competing against each other to get the highest rank, the last thing I'm going to do is help him get a leg up. As Evil Semp has tried to explain to you, the third grade math of finding the % of times someone attacks another doesn't prove or even signal cheating. In a three person game, and with a large enough sample of games, for the most part you would statistically expect the ratio of wins to balance out to 33%. You are handpicking maybe 5 games out of over a hundred, so for one thing your sample size is too small without modifying the results based on an entire population of games. Just like you don't care about the five games that ADAIR posted to show games that proved the opposite; we just don't care if you accuse us of cheating because we know we're not, so we're not going to take the time to go through every game. First attacks make no difference whatsoever, so that is just a weak argument to begin with. The likelihood is of attacking someone repeatedly in a small sample of games greatly increases because there are only 3 people in the game. In another post one of you says that it's obvious we are cheating, what that tells me is that it's obvious you're an angry person that reacts off the cuff and makes excuses because they got a bad setup in a game and lost. What's obvious is that you aren't interested in finding out twice so far that there is no evidence that we are cheating, and that's because it's not happening. And you try to go rally the troops by contacting all your friends on here who we may or may not have played with and get them to come parrot you're battling cry? Really?! Frankly, that just pathetic. You just want to be right and have the satisfaction of getting someone banned because your bitter you lost and you think we were out to get you from the beginning. In every 3 person game, the first person out could claim the other two players teamed up against them. And while you claim otherwise, the games you have looked at alone are not enough to show anything. And as for the multiple screen names for the same person accusation, who would be stupid enough to buy two Upgraded accounts to try to get more points on a internet game that gains them nothing? You guys really have nothing better to do. If you are still determined that we are cheating, there's a simple solution, don't play with us. It's really that simple. If you could look at this without bias, I promise you, this makes absolute logical sense; and you're lying to yourself if you say otherwise, and you know it. This is really all I have to say on the matter. I'm sorry you feel mistreated, but we are here to have fun, that's all. You should too, you'll enjoy yourself more instead of getting so bent out of shape over nothing. I wish you all the best, hopefully we can play together again sometime and you'll notice everything I've said is true. In fact, I'll even tell you why I did what I did after every move. You'll see we each have our own best interest in mind, and we can all get back to enjoying what is just supposed to be a game, not a feud.

by **Joey3GA** on Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:13 pm

And just for your reference in case you care, everything I've described above it's called "game theory". Perhaps you've heard of it..."A Beautiful Mind"... John Nash. Read up on it, it will all make sense.

by **HaireWolf1** on Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:48 pm

Game 9579347 another 4-player game where they are in the 4th round and have yet to attack one another. This happens in 90% of the games these two clowns play in. One player deadbeated and the 4th player is getting double-teamed as usual...just more lying stats i guess. What are the odds that in 4 rounds in a 4-player game the situation doesn't arise once to attack one another...this is so obvious it's laughable.

by **ADAIR410** on Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:51 am

You must not have looked very close because Joey has attacked me and I have attacked him in that game. The first round I did not attack anybody in order to have more troops to attack with. I have been going for Australia so I had to attack who ever was in Australia. I am not sure what Joey is doing since it is Fog of War, but I assume he is going for SA since he did not have anybody in or around Australia. Go ahead and find another game and I will justify the moves and maybe we can get to the bottom of this. Just look a little deeper before you post one next time.

Well stated Joey!!

by **HaireWolf1** on Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:01 am

Actually neither you nor Joey attacked in the first round so you could set up to pounce on the other in subsequent rounds. It was plotted by the both of you prior to the game.

by **ADAIR410** on Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:17 am

Once again you have nothing. Why would you keep posting if you have no proof. Just find a game that you can prove something.

by **HaireWolf1** on Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:30 am

Why don't you quit lying and just admit it instead of trying to smoke screen folks here that are too smart to fall for your lies?

by **ADAIR410** on Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:02 pm

Still no proof. Not even a little??

by **HaireWolf1** on Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:05 pm

I've issued plenty of proof and I am currently breaking down another game you two were involved in where you ripped two unsuspecting players apart by teaming up on them...I will share those numbers when I finish breaking that one down.

I don't mind you knowing what I am working on and that's why I do it all in the forum so there are no secrets. Maybe you need to go across the room and sign onto Joey's computer and respond as him this time to this question...maybe shake it up a little.

by **ADAIR410** on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:54 pm

Just give me proof when you can.

by **HaireWolf1** on Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:31 am

I won't give you anything...I'll give proof to the mods just like I did in this forum.

by **jgordon1111** on Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:31 am

at this point going to be hard to prove. if they have played together enough they at this point dont even need to talk to each other. so just about the only thing cc can do is ban them from playing with each other, unless it is in team games or games that involve more than six players. with that many players involved if they tried to pull some funny stuff,more easily noticed. harder to disclaim

by **HaireWolf1** on Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:28 am

Yeah I would be very pleased if CC would block them from playing with one another in standard games. That would solve the whole problem with these two.

by **Melichor** on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:22 pm

After all of these reports against the both of you, why not do the smart thing and play team games. You have another couple of games up on the last page in which you have Joey3GA reserved.

by **HaireWolf1** on Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:24 pm

Yeah the only thing is that they couldn't cheat then if they played games as straight-up doubles matches. Would suck for them if the other players actually could play as a team as well.

by **HaireWolf1** on Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:28 pm

More evidence was found in Game 9575238 where Adair410 started the game with Mexico City and Lima among others and Joey started with Sydney. Actually I printed out the game board for Classic and broke down the game and placed all 4 players where they started the game. I see a pattern develop where Adair works on S. America and Joey works on Oceania and both fortify the other player's border while they grow their troops there. Once they have control of their respective continents then they begin to step up their game against the others. Joey had Dakar and LAgos to start the game and could have easily kept adair from taking or keeping S America. Adair had Hong Kong, Manila, and Bangkok and could have placed and forted there to keep anyone from controlling Oceania (actually he could have easily taken it for himself). In many of the games I have looked at with these two they begin by gaining control of the easiest continents which is not strange as that is a common strategy in risk. What is strange is that they help one another by helping each keep their continents. Had Tkroeze or Harry taken one of those continents the two of them would have assured that it would not have been held for bonus. This is the pattern. It doesn't always work the way they want it to as sometimes strategy just doesn't play out the way they plan but this is the pattern and plan they utilize in every game. Gain a continent, block for one another and kill off the others as quickly as possible so that only one of the two of them will have a shot at victory.

by **ADAIR410** on Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:48 am

If I would not of fortified and continued to try to hold Sa. and tried to keep Joey out of Oceania, then tkroeze would have taken it. You can see that tkroeze second move brought him back into Sa. which made me focus my attention on holding what I could get. The point is to hold a continent and get the bonus right?? If I would have battled Joey then I would have given up Sa. My setup was good in Sa. so of course that is where I focused my attention.
Another major problem with this game is it is 4 players and Fog of War. I had no idea where most of the other people where, I just knew I had a good setup in Sa. along with the possibility of taking over Na., which I eventually did. I did get lucky with some of my cards and it gave me the opportunity and that is why I won.

I don't really see anything wrong with this game. Fog of war is always a little harder because you don't know where the others are.

by **HaireWolf1** on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:12 am

Yeah it does get tricky when only you and Joey3GA know where each other are and the others have no idea.

by **ADAIR410** on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:33 am

What ever man. You keep trying but have nothing. Just face it, there is no cheating here. I am sure there are many more out there that are actually cheating so go find them and you might be able to prove something

by **HaireWolf1** on Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:44 am

ADAIR410 wrote:What ever man. You keep trying but have nothing. Just face it, there is no cheating here. I am sure there are many more out there that are actually cheating so go find them and you might be able to prove something

More proof...Game 9607072...You two blasted your opponent early on in the game weakening them to nothing so they couldn't fight back. Then you proceeded on your usual course for one of you to take control of S. America and one to take Oceania. Anyone with doubts still about these two can check the game log and look at the board as it currently is in this game. I'm not going to do the log on that one since it would take more space and this is already pending.

by **Joey3GA** on Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:56 am

First, you need to get a life...seriously! Second, once again, we do not cheat, I don't know how many times we can say it. You can't prove something that isn't there, no matter how hard you try. And if you bothered to look at any of our games we play that we are not in together, you'll see we have the same strategy; if possible, we take either S. America or Oceania first. That's everyone's strategy, and just because one of us takes one and other person takes the other in a 3 person game doesn't prove cheating. In fact it proves that we use the same strategy whether we are playing each other or not. And really, what is the point of us cheating? We are competing against each other, I would rather Adair410 lose to the other person or me than to help him win. You think you can go through hundreds of games and pick out single games to try and prove your point. But every single one follows the same strategy as any other game we play if we are not playing together. I'm glad this is pending so we get cleared again, and every time beyond that you show up in one of our games and start claiming cheating we will report the harassment and you will be the one getting banned from the site if you don't let this fraud of a theory go. We are here to have fun and compete, especially AGAINST each other. Once we're cleared again, please don't contact us, don't bother us, don't bother the people we're playing with, and certainly don't try to play with us because you obviously have a screw loose. This has gone way too far and we've been able to justify any and everything you claim is cheating by working together. Any unbiased person would see that every move we make is in our own individual interest, the problem is you frame the arguments without all the facts to try and prove something that we continue to reiterate isn't there, and continue to prove isn't there. There's obviously no reasoning with you because you've already shown your true colors, and you're just on a vendetta. I hope the site moderator is able to close this soon, because your harassment is unwarranted and unwelcome.

by **HaireWolf1** on Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:27 pm

Actually taking any particular continent for bonus is not the issue here. The issue here is the fact that you two block for one another and refuse to take bonuses from one another. You certainly don't mind wiping your opponents' bonuses out. And about being cleared, I think enough players are onto you two cheating and enough evidence has now been given that you won't be cleared this time. It is pending if you'll notice.

Just play doubles and triples games is all I ask and quit cheating. Why don't you and Adair play doubles games? Scared you'll lose because now your opponents will be able to team up as well.

by **D00MandD3A7H** on Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:07 am

No! This is quite an issue. You are friends or co-workers what the hell ever.What matters is you 2 are using diplomacy in secret. If you dont want to draw attention to yourselves, then play private games. It is unfair...

by **jgordon1111** on Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:27 pm

the proof is in the fact that the 2 of you continue to use the exact same tactic on every player you come up against and seem to keep it to small games where you can use this tactic. and that gentlemen on a continued basis such as yours is not just secret diplomacy but outright cheating.before i thought cc should just ban you from playing together but now under a continued pattern i think you should outright be banned from cc.