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[Abandoned] Research & Conquer

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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:24 pm

OliverFA wrote:For the record: There is a way to do the map with the current XML but it involves a significant lower granularity. What do I mean? The initial idea was to implement the Secret Conscription and Open Conscription technologies with granularity 1. Meaning that for Open Conscription the player would get 1 extra army each territory. A compromise was made to reduce the XML size and optimize loading speed. This compromise was to implement it each 6 territories. It seems that this compromise could work (not 100% sure). But just at that time we received word that the XML collections update was about to arrive. So the map development halted to wait for that update.

I understand that there are a lot of things to do and so few resources for doing it. So I don't complain for the long time this update is taking. Instead of that, I wonder if we could go forward with the granularity 6 version and implement a granularity 1 version once the XML collections update finally appears, just like Conquer Man was optimized when an update came.


If granularity 6 worked, then I think that would be a suitable way of going about things, since the XML update isn't anywhere near. This map will take long enough in Beta to balance properly. The map can remain in Beta until the update is complete and the granuarity is fixed to 1.

That being said, I'm fairly certain the reason we're all sitting here waiting forever is because Lack was concerned that the size of the granuarity 6 XML would cause problems. I thought the granuarity 6 XML was something like 4 times larger than the original Conquer Man XML. Am I misremembering? If I am, then I would be all for pushing this through to Beta on the granuarity 6 version in the meantime.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby zimmah on Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:54 pm

OliverFA wrote:For the record: There is a way to do the map with the current XML but it involves a significant lower granularity. What do I mean? The initial idea was to implement the Secret Conscription and Open Conscription technologies with granularity 1. Meaning that for Open Conscription the player would get 1 extra army each territory. A compromise was made to reduce the XML size and optimize loading speed. This compromise was to implement it each 6 territories. It seems that this compromise could work (not 100% sure). But just at that time we received word that the XML collections update was about to arrive. So the map development halted to wait for that update.

I understand that there are a lot of things to do and so few resources for doing it. So I don't complain for the long time this update is taking. Instead of that, I wonder if we could go forward with the granularity 6 version and implement a granularity 1 version once the XML collections update finally appears, just like Conquer Man was optimized when an update came.


i hope so, i'd love to play this map.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby OliverFA on Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:20 am

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:If granularity 6 worked, then I think that would be a suitable way of going about things, since the XML update isn't anywhere near. This map will take long enough in Beta to balance properly. The map can remain in Beta until the update is complete and the granuarity is fixed to 1.

That being said, I'm fairly certain the reason we're all sitting here waiting forever is because Lack was concerned that the size of the granuarity 6 XML would cause problems. I thought the granuarity 6 XML was something like 4 times larger than the original Conquer Man XML. Am I misremembering? If I am, then I would be all for pushing this through to Beta on the granuarity 6 version in the meantime.


I made a lot of optimizations until I left it at 404KB. This should be small enough.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:04 am

OliverFA wrote:
-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:If granularity 6 worked, then I think that would be a suitable way of going about things, since the XML update isn't anywhere near. This map will take long enough in Beta to balance properly. The map can remain in Beta until the update is complete and the granuarity is fixed to 1.

That being said, I'm fairly certain the reason we're all sitting here waiting forever is because Lack was concerned that the size of the granuarity 6 XML would cause problems. I thought the granuarity 6 XML was something like 4 times larger than the original Conquer Man XML. Am I misremembering? If I am, then I would be all for pushing this through to Beta on the granuarity 6 version in the meantime.


I made a lot of optimizations until I left it at 404KB. This should be small enough.


Any idea what Conquer Man's original XML size was?
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:26 am

I had a few moments and decided to go hunting. Conquer Man's original XML was 347kB. I think that the 404kB version should work as a Beta. It'll mean people having to turn off BOB to make it work, but I for one would be happy to do that in order to start beta testing the map.

How do we go about getting this course of action approved?
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby zimmah on Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:40 am

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:I had a few moments and decided to go hunting. Conquer Man's original XML was 347kB. I think that the 404kB version should work as a Beta. It'll mean people having to turn off BOB to make it work, but I for one would be happy to do that in order to start beta testing the map.

How do we go about getting this course of action approved?


i have to turn of map inspect anyway because the CC clickies don't work with map inspect.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby natty dread on Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:53 am

The viability of a 3rd-party add-on should not be a criteria for CC maps in the first place.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby TaCktiX on Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:16 pm

That's a good question, as we got an outright veto on the present XML at 404kb. We can re-petition, of course, but I don't know if the answer will change.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:30 pm

TaCktiX wrote:That's a good question, as we got an outright veto on the present XML at 404kb. We can re-petition, of course, but I don't know if the answer will change.


If it was the 404kb version we got veto'd on, then perhaps a re-petition at this point wouldn't be such a bad idea. If Lack was concerned about the server load, I doubt that extra 15-20% on our file will make that much of a difference compared to the original Conquer Man, which ran fine, albeit a tad sluggish even without BOB running.

If the original Conquer Man got approved, then there should be no reason for R&C to not be approved. Especially if it's taking this long to get a solution from the site. We've been sitting on our hands for nearly 5 months now waiting for an update, which as far as you've said, hasn't even begun to be coded yet. I really don't think that it's fair to hold up this map for another 3+ months while we wait for the site to implement an update. We can keep it in Beta until the update is complete, but in the meantime, it would be really nice to be able to start beta testing this map as I could easily see it taking 3-6 months to get through beta with all of the adjustments for balancing the map.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:45 pm

If I remember correctly, Lack tweaked the server so that it runs a little faster after the first petition was made. So maybe a re-petition is in order, and possibly approved. IDK, it's worth a try though.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:24 pm

I assume that TaCKtiX and/or Oliver would take care of the petition?

It would be really nice to take another shot at getting this through. Perhaps it would help to mention that Conquer Man's original XML was 347kb and that there's been server tweaks that have happened since then, so R&C shouldn't run any heavier on server load than Conquer Man would have.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby OliverFA on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:18 pm

Certainly the facts that the original Conquer Man was 347Kb and the server was slightly optimized seem like a base for a re-petition. However TaCKtiX and myself will discuss it among ourselves to decide what we do. We don't want to make a petition that we know does not have any chance to succeed. But if there is some probability that it could work, then it could be worth to try.
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby zimmah on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:22 pm

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:That's a good question, as we got an outright veto on the present XML at 404kb. We can re-petition, of course, but I don't know if the answer will change.


Especially if it's taking this long to get a solution from the site. We've been sitting on our hands for nearly 5 months now waiting for an update, which as far as you've said, hasn't even begun to be coded yet. I really don't think that it's fair to hold up this map for another 3+ months while we wait for the site to implement an update. We can keep it in Beta until the update is complete, but in the meantime, it would be really nice to be able to start beta testing this map as I could easily see it taking 3-6 months to get through beta with all of the adjustments for balancing the map.


exactly, and the original idea dates back years....
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Re: Research & Conquer [3 Mar 2011] (Version 10 in P1 & P61)

Postby TaCktiX on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:59 am

In consideration of a re-go:

Version 11

Updates:
- Renamed Zeppelin Strikes to Sabotage (Industrial Sabotage wouldn't fit)

Provisional Values
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Small (with 88's)
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Small (Blank)
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Large (with 88's)
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Large (Blank)
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I do apologize on the lack of the 888's, but I'm on a netbook that can barely load R&C's source documents, much less do a mass layer manipulation (which is how I created all previous 888 versions). I swear nothing has moved around to sacrifice any previous 888 verifications.
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Re: Research & Conquer [1 Aug 2011] (Version 11 in P1 & P71)

Postby ender516 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:02 pm

As far as 888's go, can you not use the Map Maker tool with the XML to generate a sample image?
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Re: Research & Conquer [1 Aug 2011] (Version 11 in P1 & P71)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:03 am

The updates are looking good TaCKtiX. Thanks for the work :)

Do the updates mean that you and Oliver have decided to take another shot at getting the XML passed?

If so, I really wish you guys luck in getting hit passed this time. Chances are that it getting passed this time will be my only shot at being able to have a few games on the map. I've been limiting myself to speed games lately because I can't commit to casual games and my premium is gonna run out in October sometime, which I probably won't be renewing.
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Re: Research & Conquer [1 Aug 2011] (Version 11 in P1 & P71)

Postby TaCktiX on Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:02 am

I hear you on the not-enough-time-for-casual problem. I've currently got two games active, both of them are tournament games and I don't dare join anything else on account of possible radical changes to my schedule.

And I checked the 888's in the map tool, they're just as fine as they used to be. :)
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Re: Research & Conquer [1 Aug 2011] (Version 11 in P1 & P71)

Postby TaCktiX on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:21 am

Version 12

Updates:
- I got really bugged by Sabotage being above Mining, so I fixed it.

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Re: Research & Conquer [1 Aug 2011] (Version 11 in P1 & P71)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:21 am

TaCktiX wrote:Version 12

Updates:
- I got really bugged by Sabotage being above Mining, so I fixed it.


I like this positioning better for Sabotage. Nice update.

I believe that this will require Oliver to switch the positioning in the code for Sabotage and Mining, presuming he's already written that code for the XML.
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Re: Research & Conquer [2 Aug 2011] (Version 12 in P1 & P72)

Postby TaCktiX on Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:13 am

He's aware, told him before I posted the update. :)
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Re: Research & Conquer [2 Aug 2011] (Version 12 in P1 & P72)

Postby OliverFA on Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:42 pm

TaCktiX wrote:He's aware, told him before I posted the update. :)


I am aware! :-D
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Re: Research & Conquer [2 Aug 2011] (Version 12 in P1 & P72)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:19 pm

OliverFA wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:He's aware, told him before I posted the update. :)


I am aware! :-D


Good to hear, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't missed since I could see it causing issues during beta if it were.

So just out of curiousity, any idea roughly how long until we hear if the petition went through or not? Would it normally be a week, two weeks, a month?
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Re: Research & Conquer [2 Aug 2011] (Version 12 in P1 & P72)

Postby OliverFA on Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:10 pm

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:He's aware, told him before I posted the update. :)


I am aware! :-D


Good to hear, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't missed since I could see it causing issues during beta if it were.

So just out of curiousity, any idea roughly how long until we hear if the petition went through or not? Would it normally be a week, two weeks, a month?


I have my parents visiting at home those days (I live in Madrid and they live in Barcelona) so I have less time than usual. But I'll do my best to get some extra time for this.
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Re: Research & Conquer [2 Aug 2011] (Version 12 in P1 & P72)

Postby gimli1990 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:33 am

i love the concept for the map oliver i hope this goes beta soon i will galdly try out this map.
i love we finally got AA otherwise known now as trench YES!!!!!
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Re: Research & Conquer [2 Aug 2011] (Version 12 in P1 & P72)

Postby OliverFA on Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:12 pm

Hello all! I have capped technologies at 75% of the land to save space as requested. This has reduced the size even more. From 404KB to 336KB. Less than the 347KB the original Conquer Man was! :D

7/Aug/2011 XML with techs capped at 75% of territories to save space:http://www.4shared.com/document/1nhO7Peu/ResearchAndConquer_v_039.html
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