Karl_R_Kroenen[CLOSED]ES

[Royal Panda]

Accused:
Karl_R_Kroenen

The accused are suspected of:
Other: Failing to abide by forum rules

Comments:
Karl's signature is above the approved size as designated in the forum rules. When I mentioned this to Karl, he didn't seem to have any clue as to what the rules were. When I explained the rules to him, he ignored me.

Link to rule:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7785#p1759438

Signatures larger than 150 pixels high by 600 pixels wide just scream “I am compensating for something” and should be reduced in size. Note this size restriction includes all parts of the signature, i.e. all banners and all text.

Karl's Signature:

Highest score 2032 @ 11/18/2010 @ 21:36 PST

Note that while the banner is 150 pixels high, the text increases this size.

My conversation to Karl a week ago, as forwarded to clapper011, who promptly ignored both me and the rule breach:

Hi Clapper,

Not sure if you're the right person to mention this to, but as you're global mod head you were the natural choice! I've recently had the below exchange with Karl regarding my avatar (which contained a naughty word in the tiniest of tiny writing). Not sure who complained about it, but I've had it up for months. If someone was offended though then of course I am sorry and have removed the picture as requested.

I'm not impressed, however, with Karl's response to my pointing out his signature was larger than rules allow, and he still has not changed it. Pretty bad, considering he's a mod telling people what they can and can't do in their profile, yet can't stick to the rules himself!

I obviously don't find the sig annoying, and only pointed it out because I was being pedantic after being asked to remove something on my profile which was in violation of the rules, but the attitude is not something I'd expect from a moderator of this site, especially in his position. Just thought I'd bring this to your attention.

From checking the sig, it is definitely over the allowed 150 pixels in height with writing included. As per forum guidelines,

Signatures larger than 150 pixels high by 600 pixels wide just scream “I am compensating for something” and should be reduced in size. Note this size restriction includes all parts of the signature, i.e. all banners and all text.

Obviously, if this is best sat with another, please can you forward on my concerns?

Thanks
Pander

Pander,

Could you tell me what your Avatar reads???
If it contains a word that wouldn't be suitable for a minor to read, please remove it...

Thanks
Karl

Hi Karl,

Will remove it, but I doubt anyone can really read it it's so small! However, certainly is an offensive word and as such I'll find a new avatar.

While you're looking at people's avatars, I would suggest you amend your signature to the appropriate 150 pixel height, as it seems a bit hypocritical to be preaching the rules on posting when you don't follow them 100% yourself...

Cheers
Pander

550px × 150px

Not with the writing included though! I only say because I received "a warning" once for having writing under my sig hahaha

This is all I see from Killmanic:
"It had come to my attention that your signature is over the allowed size of 150 pixels high and 600 pixels long. If you could please make it fit that size as given in the forum guidelines that would be great."

Yeah, when I was a mod and had padel access I checked and it showed as a minor infringement didn't even know it was wrong!

Really poor behaviour from 2 CC mods there, one count of ignoring a rule breach and not following up a site member's concerns, and one count of preaching rule breaches to others while breaching them yourself and not amending this when mentioned.

[Serbia]

Pander,

Could you tell me what your Avatar reads???
If it contains a word that wouldn't be suitable for a minor to read, please remove it...

Thanks
Karl

This here is a big change in CC moderating behavior. Apparently we've now decided to remove offensive language from avatars? Since when? Can we get some clarification on this? There are several people who will be found in violation if this is true.

[General Brock II]

Pander,

Could you tell me what your Avatar reads???
If it contains a word that wouldn't be suitable for a minor to read, please remove it...

Thanks
Karl

This here is a big change in CC moderating behavior. Apparently we've now decided to remove offensive language from avatars? Since when? Can we get some clarification on this? There are several people who will be found in violation if this is true.

About time.

[nippersean]

This is the second time this is happened, (to my knowledge) recently, didn't KRK recently warn / note someone for offensive game chat?
Is this a CC change of stance? Or just KRK's interpretation of his role.
I think this should be clarified quick.
Can I not swear in game chat anymore without risk of a warning???
Please advise and i'll stick to crikey!!!

[nippersean]

Pander,

Could you tell me what your Avatar reads???
If it contains a word that wouldn't be suitable for a minor to read, please remove it...

Thanks
Karl

This here is a big change in CC moderating behavior. Apparently we've now decided to remove offensive language from avatars? Since when? Can we get some clarification on this? There are several people who will be found in violation if this is true.

About time.

What do you mean - about time??????????
Exactly when did you unilaterally change the rules?
On whose authority?

Where was the post by Lack / Andy that bad language was no longer tolerated on CC?

[QoH]

ANd if there is language that is found offensive in avatars, what about all the language in the forums?

[IcePack]

f*ck the bastards. f*ck the dice. f*ck has always been allowed, along with lots of other words. If this is a rule it better b announced bcuz there are way more people violating / need of warnings then and it will be a big change in stance as has already been mentioned.

IcePack

[Victor Sullivan]

Big whoop, his signature is more than 150 pixels tall. My signature was too big when I joined the mod squad, and king achilles just sent me a PM saying, "You're signature is too big,", I took it off, then yay happy fun time. No harm done.

I believe this is a blatant attempt to criticize the C&A department. This, eye84free's recent case... Seriously, guys, just stop it. It's like you're trying to crucify a man for asking for a napkin saying, "He's not prepared!!".

"Look, the President walked across the street when the hand was flashing, the rules clearly state you may only continue to cross the street when it's flashing! Impeach him!"

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this foolish behavior...

-Sully

[L M S]

Sully(number 2), you are totally missing the pooooooooint.

KRK threw a stone at Pwnder whilst living in a glass house.
Therefore abusing his invisible person e-power.

[Karl_R_Kroenen]

You are correct, Pander, I fixed it...

[Victor Sullivan]

Dearest Pander...

Hi Clapper,

Not sure if you're the right person to mention this to, but as you're global mod head you were the natural choice! I've recently had the below exchange with Karl regarding my avatar (which contained a naughty word in the tiniest of tiny writing). Not sure who complained about it, but I've had it up for months. If someone was offended though then of course I am sorry and have removed the picture as requested.

Firstly, if something is wrong, it's wrong! Rules, morals, and the like are not time-sensitive.

I'm not impressed, however, with Karl's response to my pointing out his signature was larger than rules allow, and he still has not changed it. Pretty bad, considering he's a mod telling people what they can and can't do in their profile, yet can't stick to the rules himself!

Oh noes! I'll make sure king achilles knows to put this in his report right away!!

Really poor behaviour from 2 CC mods there, one count of ignoring a rule breach and not following up a site member's concerns, and one count of preaching rule breaches to others while breaching them yourself and not amending this when mentioned.

Pander, being a mod yourself once, you should know how difficult it is to bear the criticism of others on a constant basis. Think of being in Karl's position! I don't believe you're being very fair to him.

-Sully

[ljex]

](*,) Big whoop, his signature is more than 150 pixels tall. My signature was too big when I joined the mod squad, and king achilles just sent me a PM saying, "You're signature is too big,", I took it off, then yay happy fun time. No harm done.

I believe this is a blatant attempt to criticize the C&A department. This, eye84free's recent case... Seriously, guys, just stop it. It's like you're trying to crucify a man for asking for a napkin saying, "He's not prepared!!".

"Look, the President walked across the street when the hand was flashing, the rules clearly state you may only continue to cross the street when it's flashing! Impeach him!"

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this foolish behavior...

-Sully

while you are becoming less tolerant of this "foolish behavior" people are becoming more and more upset with the way things have been going on in the CC forms for the past 2-3 months. Its a shame really because I hate to see this happen but if CC does not change the way some things are done, i think they could have a major problem. Mods should be held to higher standards, and should be expected to follow and know the rules they are responsible to uphold. I don't know what word was in that avatar but if it was f*ck or really any swear word...i will be deeply upset with the ruling given considering the mod who had f*ck got to keep hers.

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this site...its a shame that this has happened it really is and I wish I could speak nothing of good about this site like I used too, but recent events have changed me. I can only hope future decisions will change me back.

[ljex]

Really poor behaviour from 2 CC mods there, one count of ignoring a rule breach and not following up a site member's concerns, and one count of preaching rule breaches to others while breaching them yourself and not amending this when mentioned.

Pander, being a mod yourself once, you should know how difficult it is to bear the criticism of others on a constant basis. Think of being in Karl's position! I don't believe you're being very fair to him.

-Sully

As a former mod now player again, I think mods should be held to the highest of standards. To be honest I look at myself as a bad mod for some of the posts I made in the forums or in game chats and wish i could take them back. He has actually been really fair to him...he sent this all in PM first and only after KRK ignored it did he choose to make it public.

[Victor Sullivan]

](*,) Big whoop, his signature is more than 150 pixels tall. My signature was too big when I joined the mod squad, and king achilles just sent me a PM saying, "You're signature is too big,", I took it off, then yay happy fun time. No harm done.

I believe this is a blatant attempt to criticize the C&A department. This, eye84free's recent case... Seriously, guys, just stop it. It's like you're trying to crucify a man for asking for a napkin saying, "He's not prepared!!".

"Look, the President walked across the street when the hand was flashing, the rules clearly state you may only continue to cross the street when it's flashing! Impeach him!"

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this foolish behavior...

-Sully

while you are becoming less tolerant of this "foolish behavior" people are becoming more and more upset with the way things have been going on in the CC forms for the past 2-3 months. Its a shame really because I hate to see this happen but if CC does not change the way some things are done, i think they could have a major problem. Mods should be held to higher standards, and should be expected to follow and know the rules they are responsible to uphold. I don't know what word was in that avatar but if it was f*ck or really any swear word...i will be deeply upset with the ruling given considering the mod who had f*ck got to keep hers.

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this site...its a shame that this has happened it really is and I wish I could speak nothing of good about this site like I used too, but recent events have changed me. I can only hope future decisions will change me back.

I don't disagree that mods should be held in high standards, but I assert that all mods are not perfect, even the admins! How have things changed? What do you suggest be done?

-Sully

[IcePack]

](*,) Big whoop, his signature is more than 150 pixels tall. My signature was too big when I joined the mod squad, and king achilles just sent me a PM saying, "You're signature is too big,", I took it off, then yay happy fun time. No harm done.

I believe this is a blatant attempt to criticize the C&A department. This, eye84free's recent case... Seriously, guys, just stop it. It's like you're trying to crucify a man for asking for a napkin saying, "He's not prepared!!".

"Look, the President walked across the street when the hand was flashing, the rules clearly state you may only continue to cross the street when it's flashing! Impeach him!"

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this foolish behavior...

-Sully

Big whoop? Others have been harassed about their sigs being to large, and I'm sure have dealt punishments out as well. If it's punishable then it should be adhered to or made a recommendation & not a rule.

Kudos to KRK for removing the sig, and getting it discussed again. when're the PM or forum post worked I have to agree it's not a "witch hunt" of mods it came about entirely different.

IcePack

[iamkoolerthanu]

](*,) Big whoop, his signature is more than 150 pixels tall. My signature was too big when I joined the mod squad, and king achilles just sent me a PM saying, "You're signature is too big,", I took it off, then yay happy fun time. No harm done.

I believe this is a blatant attempt to criticize the C&A department. This, eye84free's recent case... Seriously, guys, just stop it. It's like you're trying to crucify a man for asking for a napkin saying, "He's not prepared!!".

"Look, the President walked across the street when the hand was flashing, the rules clearly state you may only continue to cross the street when it's flashing! Impeach him!"

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this foolish behavior...

-Sully

while you are becoming less tolerant of this "foolish behavior" people are becoming more and more upset with the way things have been going on in the CC forms for the past 2-3 months. Its a shame really because I hate to see this happen but if CC does not change the way some things are done, i think they could have a major problem. Mods should be held to higher standards, and should be expected to follow and know the rules they are responsible to uphold. I don't know what word was in that avatar but if it was f*ck or really any swear word...i will be deeply upset with the ruling given considering the mod who had f*ck got to keep hers.

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this site...its a shame that this has happened it really is and I wish I could speak nothing of good about this site like I used too, but recent events have changed me. I can only hope future decisions will change me back.

I don't disagree that mods should be held in high standards, but I assert that all mods are not perfect, even the admins! How have things changed? What do you suggest be done?

-Sully

If I understand correctly, the signature thing isn't why this is in CandA. The fact that PM's were ignored, just because the mods thought they could, that is where the problem lays

Being perfect is one thing, but ignoring someones PMs, when your a mod... Not cool

[nippersean]

](*,) Big whoop, his signature is more than 150 pixels tall. My signature was too big when I joined the mod squad, and king achilles just sent me a PM saying, "You're signature is too big,", I took it off, then yay happy fun time. No harm done.

I believe this is a blatant attempt to criticize the C&A department. This, eye84free's recent case... Seriously, guys, just stop it. It's like you're trying to crucify a man for asking for a napkin saying, "He's not prepared!!".

"Look, the President walked across the street when the hand was flashing, the rules clearly state you may only continue to cross the street when it's flashing! Impeach him!"

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this foolish behavior...

-Sully

Good of you to become "less and less tolerant of this foolish behaviour" Mr Sully

You changed your sig when you were told to. KRK doesn't seem to believe the rules apply to him.

No-one is having a go at C&A at all but to me, it appears someone, or 2, has gone loco. When you take responsibilities, young man, for 20,000 people, you should take them seriously, understand structures and guidelines set, or be a man and say you're not ready yet.

I personally couldn't say higher things about C&A (and they get better all the time) in maybe the hardest job in CC....you can't keep all the people...etc

What is being said is KRK changing the rules.....by himself....you think this is OK?

edit - i now realise other posts have been made since my post to Sully's but it still stands

[jefjef]

What do you suggest be done?

-Sully

*facepalm*

I really don't think this is appropriate... I don't think many people understand the serious nature of this forum... C&A is not for suggestions or general discussion.

- jj

[Victor Sullivan]

Good of you to become "less and less tolerant of this foolish behaviour" Mr Sully

You changed your sig when you were told to. KRK doesn't seem to believe the rules apply to him.

No-one is having a go at C&A at all but to me, it appears someone, or 2, has gone loco. When you take responsibilities, young man, for 20,000 people, you should take them seriously, understand structures and guidelines set, or be a man and say you're not ready yet.

I personally couldn't say higher things about C&A (and they get better all the time) in maybe the hardest job in CC....you can't keep all the people...etc

What is being said is KRK changing the rules.....by himself....you think this is OK?

edit - i now realise other posts have been made since my post to Sully's but it still stands

"Young man"? Please, flattery won't get you anywhere

Karl isn't changing the rules; I believe you're blowing things out of proportion a bit.

To the rest of you, I cannot speak for Karl_R_Kroenen nor clapper011.

And jefjef, please

-Sully

[ljex]

](*,) Big whoop, his signature is more than 150 pixels tall. My signature was too big when I joined the mod squad, and king achilles just sent me a PM saying, "You're signature is too big,", I took it off, then yay happy fun time. No harm done.

I believe this is a blatant attempt to criticize the C&A department. This, eye84free's recent case... Seriously, guys, just stop it. It's like you're trying to crucify a man for asking for a napkin saying, "He's not prepared!!".

"Look, the President walked across the street when the hand was flashing, the rules clearly state you may only continue to cross the street when it's flashing! Impeach him!"

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this foolish behavior...

-Sully

while you are becoming less tolerant of this "foolish behavior" people are becoming more and more upset with the way things have been going on in the CC forms for the past 2-3 months. Its a shame really because I hate to see this happen but if CC does not change the way some things are done, i think they could have a major problem. Mods should be held to higher standards, and should be expected to follow and know the rules they are responsible to uphold. I don't know what word was in that avatar but if it was f*ck or really any swear word...i will be deeply upset with the ruling given considering the mod who had f*ck got to keep hers.

I am becoming less and less tolerant of this site...its a shame that this has happened it really is and I wish I could speak nothing of good about this site like I used too, but recent events have changed me. I can only hope future decisions will change me back.

I don't disagree that mods should be held in high standards, but I assert that all mods are not perfect, even the admins! How have things changed? What do you suggest be done?

-Sully

Mods are by no means perfect, but this was 2 mistakes not one which is why it is a bad thing. Anyway this is not the place to discuss my opinions on what has changed or what i suggest be done.

[Royal Panda]

Let me be clear to Sully, I have no problem at all with the signature, and your selective quoting of me is frankly embarrassing for you. I abided by KRK's request to remove my avatar and, being pedantic, decided to mention that his signature was outside the accepted limits (because I was feeling confrontational at the time). What was upsetting was, as others have noted, the lack of response from 2 mods. I took the following course of action:

- Direct confrontation with KRK (ignored)
- Escalation to a more senior mod (ignored)
- C&A forum

I think I went about this in the only way I could have, and certainly didn't come rushing to the forum in an attempt to make the C&A mods look bad etc. etc. etc.

KRK has amended his signature now so all is good with the world.


A further note, I wasn't aware it wasn't a hard and fast rule that swearing wasn't allowed in avatars... just assumed KRK knew what he was doing.

[Victor Sullivan]

Let me be clear to Sully, I have no problem at all with the signature, and your selective quoting of me is frankly embarrassing for you. I abided by KRK's request to remove my avatar and, being pedantic, decided to mention that his signature was outside the accepted limits (because I was feeling confrontational at the time). What was upsetting was, as others have noted, the lack of response from 2 mods. I took the following course of action:

- Direct confrontation with KRK (ignored)
- Escalation to a more senior mod (ignored)
- C&A forum

I think I went about this in the only way I could have, and certainly didn't come rushing to the forum in an attempt to make the C&A mods look bad etc. etc. etc.

KRK has amended his signature now so all is good with the world.


A further note, I wasn't aware it wasn't a hard and fast rule that swearing wasn't allowed in avatars... just assumed KRK knew what he was doing.

I've made a fool of myself enough times not to worry too much about how smart, stupid or otherwise I look

How long did you wait between escalations, Pander?

-Sully

[nippersean]

A further note, I wasn't aware it wasn't a hard and fast rule that swearing wasn't allowed in avatars... just assumed KRK knew what he was doing.[/quote]

It does appear like it's another one KRK made up, like swearing in game chat

I think we should be told if the page (lol, i'm old can't find it, but remember reading it)
is no longer valid, I believe I can swear in game chat?

True or False?

Answers only accepted by KRK

So??

[Royal Panda]

Let me be clear to Sully, I have no problem at all with the signature, and your selective quoting of me is frankly embarrassing for you. I abided by KRK's request to remove my avatar and, being pedantic, decided to mention that his signature was outside the accepted limits (because I was feeling confrontational at the time). What was upsetting was, as others have noted, the lack of response from 2 mods. I took the following course of action:

- Direct confrontation with KRK (ignored)
- Escalation to a more senior mod (ignored)
- C&A forum

I think I went about this in the only way I could have, and certainly didn't come rushing to the forum in an attempt to make the C&A mods look bad etc. etc. etc.

KRK has amended his signature now so all is good with the world.


A further note, I wasn't aware it wasn't a hard and fast rule that swearing wasn't allowed in avatars... just assumed KRK knew what he was doing.

I've made a fool of myself enough times not to worry too much about how smart, stupid or otherwise I look

How long did you wait between escalations, Pander?

-Sully

3 days for KRK and 4 days for Clapper

[Evil Semp]

Stop it now. Don't you folks have something better to do on a holiday weekend?

1) Karl sends pander a PM concerning his signature.
2) Pander complies and sends a PM to Karl saying your signature is to large.

The first two facts we know happened.

3) Karl checks his signature by right clicking and it says 150x550. Signature is within the site guide lines.

I figure step three is what happened.

4) Karl asked me if his signature was to large. I right click it says 150x550. i respond that it isn't to big.

Step 4 is a fact.

5) Karl thinks Pander is just trying to give him a hard time and ignores it.
6) Pander PM's clapper, clapper goes through the clicking etc. etc. Signature is within the guide lines.
7) Pander files a C&A complaint.

I think that is pretty much the series of events. I think the problem here is communication.

Note that while the banner is 150 pixels high, the text increases this size.

I read this and said how can the type in his signature change the size of the signature?

Then the light bulb went on. It is the type that is under the picture in his signature.

Highest score 2032 @ 11/18/2010 @ 21:36 PST

What we got here is... failure to communicate. .

I talked to Karl today and told him and he changed his signature.

Moving this to CLOSED.