Empire vs IA (Final) [22-20 of 42] EMPIRE WINS!!

[Leehar]

we didnt get any resolution in our hive game and now its a complete mess.....

so you lose troops on what is said to be an already decided game and we lose them on what is still a very close game and may very well decide this challenge? Seems fair to me...

I don't think the ':(' is meaning that loki's doesn't want your NA game to be reset.. He/She's could just be unhappy about whatever may have happened in Hive, the 2 scenarios don't have to necessarily be related.

first of all loki is a she

second thanks for the post, while i think its jumping the gun to call the hive a decided game.. the game was empires advantage but was not a made game for them... but an agreement was attempted to be made to make the missed turn right and people started to start there turn and let it expire so there was no advantage either way but a turn was taken and now the game looks like to be a loss because the advantage for empire just got better for them...

Lol, I thought as much but I'm too used to referring to internet persona's in the masculine form

And is Lacks suggested e-ticket solution not possible? I'm sure if you ask detailing reasons why there was the problem and if both teams are amenable, the game could be reset before the whole saga happened?

[Rodion]

This challenge is looking nice, 16-16 with 10 games to go.

Can anyone give updates on those 10 games?

[ljex]

we didnt get any resolution in our hive game and now its a complete mess.....

so you lose troops on what is said to be an already decided game and we lose them on what is still a very close game and may very well decide this challenge? Seems fair to me...

I don't think the ':(' is meaning that loki's doesn't want your NA game to be reset.. He/She's could just be unhappy about whatever may have happened in Hive, the 2 scenarios don't have to necessarily be related.

first of all loki is a she

second thanks for the post, while i think its jumping the gun to call the hive a decided game.. an agreement was attempted to be made to make the missed turn right and people started to start there turn and let it expire so there was no advantage either way but a turn was taken and now the game looks like to be a loss because the advantage for empire just got better for them...

I cant see the fog game but from what I was told by people in the game we had a big advantage. I am in NA though and us losing the 3 troops hurt us way more than yellow missing a turn (i think thats you vampireM) and beyond that we were even cordial enough to notify you that you only had 4 hours remaining "2011-03-24 10:22:44 - dwilhelmi [team]: I notified the other team that they have less than 4 hours remaining."

[Denise]

we didnt get any resolution in our hive game and now its a complete mess.....

so you lose troops on what is said to be an already decided game and we lose them on what is still a very close game and may very well decide this challenge? Seems fair to me...

I don't think the ':(' is meaning that loki's doesn't want your NA game to be reset.. He/She's could just be unhappy about whatever may have happened in Hive, the 2 scenarios don't have to necessarily be related.

first of all loki is a she

second thanks for the post, while i think its jumping the gun to call the hive a decided game.. an agreement was attempted to be made to make the missed turn right and people started to start there turn and let it expire so there was no advantage either way but a turn was taken and now the game looks like to be a loss because the advantage for empire just got better for them...

I cant see the fog game but from what I was told by people in the game we had a big advantage. I am in NA though and us losing the 3 troops hurt us way more than yellow missing a turn (i think thats you vampireM) and beyond that we were even cordial enough to notify you that you only had 4 hours remaining "2011-03-24 10:22:44 - dwilhelmi [team]: I notified the other team that they have less than 4 hours remaining."

I suggest we keep this as simple as possible. I just talked to Chuck and he is willing to adhere to the agreement that everyone time out in hive, as long as we can find a compromise in North America. I feel like the easiest thing would be to have your next player (beersurfer) time out, thus losing his troops and making it all even. Would that be acceptable, IA?

[lokisgal]

That may work for the NA game however Hive is another story because after yellow took his turn he also brought my drop down as opposed to me having done that to him on his turn so it really did swing the game wildly in empires favor. Had I gotten my troops and taken my turn it is very unlikley that yellow would have brought my troop count or forza's down as I would have been hitting him trying to bring him down.
And from what I understand in NA not only were there missed troops but then the clock only gave the next person in line 4 hours to take their turn.

I dont think we can compare the situations between the 2 games as totally different things happened...and the collateral damage in hive is much much worse

I dont know what the best solution is for hive. I liked Leehar's idea of asking the powers above to turn the game back to before the start of my turn but that doesnt seem like a likely event to me.

I don't want this challenge to be decided over games that were disrupted by things that were beyond our control. At this point Id suggest a remake of both games though Im sure this won't meet with much favor. It seems really the only fair thing to do unless we can get Lack to reset the games somehow..

[Denise]

Let's just play the games out. It's what we've decided. Empire gained an advantage in Hive, IA did in North America. That's fair.

[lord voldemort]

yes and no...hive was already well in our advantage...
north america however is/was up for grabs

[lokisgal]

You all can not decide what we agree on. We do not feel that the hive game was clearly decided in you favor. So no "we" do not agree to handle both games the same way.

So "we" have not decided to just play the games out this is not a something that you all can decide for both clans. We were talking over in the hive chat what to do about the game and the proposal on the table was that everyone from Empire would start turn and not deploy thus making the loss of troops a non issue. This was under discussion and clearly posted in chat, yet slow came in took a turn and didn't even post one word in chat about yes I agree or no I do not agree with whats being proposed Id like to take my turn. Oddly slow had been mulling participating inwhat to do earlier in the chat before the turn was taken then suddenly silence

[Bruceswar]

If I was in this war the only fair thing to do would be to restart both games. IA claims hive swung to Empire. Empire claims it was already theirs. IA has the lead in NA, while Empire said they were effected. 2 turns got messed up in NA, and 2 in hive(counting slow breaking the agreement being worked out as per chat). To make all sides happy remake the 2 games and move on. That is what I would do.

[ljex]

You all can not decide what we agree on. We do not feel that the hive game was clearly decided in you favor. So no "we" do not agree to handle both games the same way.

So "we" have not decided to just play the games out this is not a something that you all can decide for both clans. We were talking over in the hive chat what to do about the game and the proposal on the table was that everyone from Empire would start turn and not deploy thus making the loss of troops a non issue. This was under discussion and clearly posted in chat, yet slow came in took a turn and didn't even post one word in chat about yes I agree or no I do not agree with whats being proposed Id like to take my turn. Oddly slow had been mulling participating inwhat to do earlier in the chat before the turn was taken then suddenly silence

lol i looked at hive, you may think you still had a chance...but trust me when i say you didn't. We even now still have a chance in NA and lets be honest the default for this is going to be leave the games as is or remove them from counting as challenge results, either way it will prob end up 1-1 in games so really you have no power to decide that we remake the games.

[ljex]

If I was in this war the only fair thing to do would be to restart both games. IA claims hive swung to Empire. Empire claims it was already theirs. IA has the lead in NA, while Empire said they were effected. 2 turns got messed up in NA, and 2 in hive(counting slow breaking the agreement being worked out as per chat). To make all sides happy remake the 2 games and move on. That is what I would do.

do you really have a right to come into a challenge that you are not even part of and decide what is fair? Especially considering your track record with making fair decisions in clan challenges you have no right to post your opinions here.

[lokisgal]

You all can not decide what we agree on. We do not feel that the hive game was clearly decided in you favor. So no "we" do not agree to handle both games the same way.

So "we" have not decided to just play the games out this is not a something that you all can decide for both clans. We were talking over in the hive chat what to do about the game and the proposal on the table was that everyone from Empire would start turn and not deploy thus making the loss of troops a non issue. This was under discussion and clearly posted in chat, yet slow came in took a turn and didn't even post one word in chat about yes I agree or no I do not agree with whats being proposed Id like to take my turn. Oddly slow had been mulling participating inwhat to do earlier in the chat before the turn was taken then suddenly silence

lol i looked at hive, you may think you still had a chance...but trust me when i say you didn't. We even now still have a chance in NA and lets be honest the default for this is going to be leave the games as is or remove them from counting as challenge results, either way it will prob end up 1-1 in games so really you have no power to decide that we remake the games.

ljex do you really think its fair for your clan to have to power to decide what to do about those games all on their own? Thats just BS. And its already been suggested that the games both be just wiped out of the challenge but no one from your clan has responded to that other than to say that "we" have decided ..........you all cant just decide there are 2 sides here who have to come to an agreement its not for one side or the other to decide imho

[ljex]

You all can not decide what we agree on. We do not feel that the hive game was clearly decided in you favor. So no "we" do not agree to handle both games the same way.

So "we" have not decided to just play the games out this is not a something that you all can decide for both clans. We were talking over in the hive chat what to do about the game and the proposal on the table was that everyone from Empire would start turn and not deploy thus making the loss of troops a non issue. This was under discussion and clearly posted in chat, yet slow came in took a turn and didn't even post one word in chat about yes I agree or no I do not agree with whats being proposed Id like to take my turn. Oddly slow had been mulling participating inwhat to do earlier in the chat before the turn was taken then suddenly silence

lol i looked at hive, you may think you still had a chance...but trust me when i say you didn't. We even now still have a chance in NA and lets be honest the default for this is going to be leave the games as is or remove them from counting as challenge results, either way it will prob end up 1-1 in games so really you have no power to decide that we remake the games.

ljex do you really think its fair for your clan to have to power to decide what to do about those games all on their own? Thats just BS. And its already been suggested that the games both be just wiped out of the challenge but no one from your clan has responded to that other than to say that "we" have decided ..........you all cant just decide there are 2 sides here who have to come to an agreement its not for one side or the other to decide imho

the games both being taken away from the challenge does nothing but make this have too few games to be an official challenge considering NA is basically yours now unless we get really really lucky. Thus they will essentially be wiped out without us actually wiping them out and this can then still count as a challenge. Oh and what do you think other fair solutions would be? we both got hurt in one game there is no way you can justify who got hurt more but clearly one clan did im not even saying its us but it would be unfair to that clan to restart both games.

[lord voldemort]

If I was in this war the only fair thing to do would be to restart both games. IA claims hive swung to Empire. Empire claims it was already theirs. IA has the lead in NA, while Empire said they were effected. 2 turns got messed up in NA, and 2 in hive(counting slow breaking the agreement being worked out as per chat). To make all sides happy remake the 2 games and move on. That is what I would do.

no you'd make us forfeit 21 games..

[Denise]

You all can not decide what we agree on. We do not feel that the hive game was clearly decided in you favor. So no "we" do not agree to handle both games the same way.

So "we" have not decided to just play the games out this is not a something that you all can decide for both clans. We were talking over in the hive chat what to do about the game and the proposal on the table was that everyone from Empire would start turn and not deploy thus making the loss of troops a non issue. This was under discussion and clearly posted in chat, yet slow came in took a turn and didn't even post one word in chat about yes I agree or no I do not agree with whats being proposed Id like to take my turn. Oddly slow had been mulling participating in what to do earlier in the chat before the turn was taken then suddenly silence

By "we" I meant myself and my clan mates. Just a way of letting you know that our clan has discussed it and this is what we would like to do. I didn't mean to offend.

Hive was won (oh yes it was) before this glitch occurred. That is why we cannot remake the game. That's a second chance for you to win a game that you had already lost. However, whatever the players in Hive decide to do (other than re-make the game) is fine. If the game can be reset to where it was, then great. Chuck has timed out his turn.

ljex do you really think its fair for your clan to have to power to decide what to do about those games all on their o,wn? Thats just BS. And its already been suggested that the games both be just wiped out of the challenge but no one from your clan has responded to that other than to say that "we" have decided ..........you all cant just decide there are 2 sides here who have to come to an agreement its not for one side or the other to decide imho

Wipe the games out? We might consider that but won't that make it a 39 game challenge, and thus exclude medals? I don't care, but I'll bet some players do. If by wipe out you mean re-make then the answer is no. I've already explained why. That leaves 3 alternatives. Play the games out. Reset the games to where they were before the glitch. Time out a turn..some turns...whatever is decided on in each separate game. We are willing to go along with any of these. We have no choice in North America, that decision is up to your players and my comment only meant that if you decide to play the game without timing out, we are cool with that.

[Namor]

If I was in this war the only fair thing to do would be to restart both games. IA claims hive swung to Empire. Empire claims it was already theirs. IA has the lead in NA, while Empire said they were effected. 2 turns got messed up in NA, and 2 in hive(counting slow breaking the agreement being worked out as per chat). To make all sides happy remake the 2 games and move on. That is what I would do.

do you really have a right to come into a challenge that you are not even part of and decide what is fair? Especially considering your track record with making fair decisions in clan challenges you have no right to post your opinions here.

If I was in this war the only fair thing to do would be to restart both games. IA claims hive swung to Empire. Empire claims it was already theirs. IA has the lead in NA, while Empire said they were effected. 2 turns got messed up in NA, and 2 in hive(counting slow breaking the agreement being worked out as per chat). To make all sides happy remake the 2 games and move on. That is what I would do.

no you'd make us forfeit 21 games..

I'm sure Bruce was only attempting to take some of the stink out of the thread.

Whether he is right or wrong to have done so, I don't think it warranted these insults. They don't help and certainly don't look very classy.

[Lubawski]

This challenge has been riddled with site errors. Even before these there were the Clickies problems when CC went to them that caused loads of mis-deploys and mis-attacks. I don't know if the problems have been "even" for both sides, but the frustrating thing is that these site errors could be the difference between a win or a loss for a clan. It appears these last two affected each of us once. They are both on big maps, and both games were very well underway. I checked on advantages before these happened and what I saw was a clear EMPIRE advantage in Hive, and what I saw as IA having an advantage in NA. (Loki, Hive is really tough to come back in when you have multiple players below the 36 territory mark. I know you are frustrated, but I think you see how that one had already slipped away. Just as I think the EMPIRE team know that they were behind because of IA's Caribbean dominance. It would have taken a solid round to break in there for us to turn that game (still can happen I suppose). The numbers, not the board are in our favor there.) Now that Chuck as timed out in Hive, let's just agree to move on. If this challenge comes down to 1 game, which is very possible, the other side will have something to complain about and it can be settled next time we meet (unless Lack can bring the games back to those points. Let's all hold our breath and see who passes out first). The best either of us can do is destroy one another on the five even games right now so it's not a one game differential. This has been an enjoyable, though frustrating challenge due to site errors. Let's not devolve into internal fighting. Both clans are far too classy for that.

[Chuuuuck]

I haven't seen any IA posts other than game chat since my timing out. With the time out and the glitch, lokisgal lost 9 armies, I lost 12, is everyone going to be okay with this result so there should be no more complaining in that game?

I, along with everyone else in Empire I think, am okay with this and okay with us not really doing anything else in NA. I just hope we can move past this, enjoy the rest of the challenge and have some fun competitions.

[lokisgal]

IM awaiting to hear back from mkcummins - no its not ok and no offense lub Im no noob at hive and your assumption that the game was lost incorrect.

[Chuuuuck]

IM awaiting to hear back from mkcummins - no its not ok and no offense lub Im no noob at hive and your assumption that the game was lost incorrect.

What are you waiting to hear back from mkcummins about?

The nature of most arguments in life, when both sides have completely different views of a situation, the truth typically lies somewhere directly in the middle. We say the game was already decided, you all say that we might of had a slight lead, but it was far from over.... The truth, we had a lead, it wasn't over, but it was a substantial lead...

I am doing my best here to do the right thing, but I feel you want to just gain a complete advantage out of this, regardless of who is right on the argument, even if you all are completely right, then there is no doubt we had a slight lead in that game up to that point, remaking that game or taking that game out is not fair to us. So what do you propose that is fair?

And how do you determine that it is still unfair to you all that you lost 9 armies and no attack phase when I tried to make it fair by losing 12 armies and having no attack phase myself.

[josko.ri]

If I was in this war the only fair thing to do would be to restart both games. IA claims hive swung to Empire. Empire claims it was already theirs. IA has the lead in NA, while Empire said they were effected. 2 turns got messed up in NA, and 2 in hive(counting slow breaking the agreement being worked out as per chat). To make all sides happy remake the 2 games and move on. That is what I would do.

do you really have a right to come into a challenge that you are not even part of and decide what is fair? Especially considering your track record with making fair decisions in clan challenges you have no right to post your opinions here.

no, he hasnt right to do it, but you had totally right to come into TOFU-KORT thread which in any way you were not part of and writing multiple posts about what was fair and what was unfair
especially considering your track record with writing extremely fair and honorable chat notes in Game 6606144

back ontopic....

I haven't seen any IA posts other than game chat since my timing out. With the time out and the glitch, lokisgal lost 9 armies, I lost 12, is everyone going to be okay with this result so there should be no more complaining in that game?

I, along with everyone else in Empire I think, am okay with this and okay with us not really doing anything else in NA. I just hope we can move past this, enjoy the rest of the challenge and have some fun competitions.

this offer is more than fair to IA, because only EMPIRE looses with this offer. they missed 3 more drop in hive with that, which I think should equalize damage done to IA, because they could maybe reduce yelow's drop by 1-2 and then yellow could maybe (but not likely) not reduce grey's drop by minus 1 so this proposal should in any way doesnt harm IA.

so, minus 3 drop for EMPIRE in hive and minus 3 drop for EMPIRE in NA (because grey will receive deffered troops next turn, so troops are not lost) in any way shouldnt harm IA in this issue. if anyone lost something with this Chuuuuck's proposal, I am very sure it is EMPIRE.

[Chuuuuck]

Thank you Josko for that very logical response. I very much agree, basically Empire loses in both games and we are okay with that as long as it is viewed as fair. For some reason, they still want to argue that we need to do even more for them.

[Leehar]

If I was in this war the only fair thing to do would be to restart both games. IA claims hive swung to Empire. Empire claims it was already theirs. IA has the lead in NA, while Empire said they were effected. 2 turns got messed up in NA, and 2 in hive(counting slow breaking the agreement being worked out as per chat). To make all sides happy remake the 2 games and move on. That is what I would do.

do you really have a right to come into a challenge that you are not even part of and decide what is fair? Especially considering your track record with making fair decisions in clan challenges you have no right to post your opinions here.

no, he hasnt right to do it, but you had totally right to come into TOFU-KORT thread which in any way you were not part of and writing multiple posts about what was fair and what was unfair
especially considering your track record with writing extremely fair and honorable chat notes in Game 6606144

You bringing up a game from more that a year ago just to support your case isn't any better, that doesn't really have a bearing on who ljex is today, and if I remember correctly, you've brought this up before and it's been addressed...

With regards to the matter at hand, I assume the issue debatable currently is Hive? From what I understand, loki does have a case, since I assume Slows attack may have lowered their region count even further so as they now have less troops coming to them than in a normal state of affairs, while chucks miss may quite possible have no material impact on the game...
At least thats how I see it. The problem of finding an amicable solution still needs to be discussed further I'm sure

[josko.ri]

You bringing up a game from more that a year ago just to support your case isn't any better, that doesn't really have a bearing on who ljex is today, and if I remember correctly, you've brought this up before and it's been addressed...

the same analogy for ljex's mentioning bruce... he brought up a situation from several months ago that doesnt really have a bearing on who bruce is today, and if I remember correctly, it was brought up before in other thread and it's been adressed. so, point of my post in anyway isnt different than point of ljex's post. actually, his point is worse because he obstructed bruce in active trying to help with his opinion in EMPIRE-IA issue, with the only point of his post to bring past issue here (as no other constructive thing mentioned in addition of his post), while second part of my post is constructive, about current issue.

With regards to the matter at hand, I assume the issue debatable currently is Hive? From what I understand, loki does have a case, since I assume Slows attack may have lowered their region count even further so as they now have less troops coming to them than in a normal state of affairs, while chucks miss may quite possible have no material impact on the game...
At least thats how I see it. The problem of finding an amicable solution still needs to be discussed further I'm sure

you cannot say that Chuuuuck's miss may not have material impact on the game. pink on 36, orange on 23 and grey on 26 regions will for sure now receive more troops due to more regions that they will have, and Chuuuuck could take it with his 12 drop. especially for pink, who is right after Chuuuuck, I very doubt that he would remain with 36 regions now if Chuuuuck attacked with his 12 drop. so, maybe yellow got more drop because orange didnt attack him, but on the same way pink/orange/grey will receive now more drop because Chuuuuck didnt attack them.

[lokisgal]

slows turn had a big impact on the game. The clan leaders are working on a solution