[CC2] - LoW (24-17) OSA (of 41) - Final

[benga]

We have joined all games!

[reptile]

First post updated with all 1st round games.

[V.J.]

The 12 hr agreement was already broken by vragus in game Game 8665737

Lamest rule ever "I didn't see that one territory, I'm gonna cry now! "

LOL

GL and let the best Clan win!

[stahrgazer]

The 12 hr agreement was already broken by vragus in game Game 8665737

Lamest rule ever "I didn't see that one territory, I'm gonna cry now! "

LOL

GL and let the best Clan win!

Ah, I see.. V.J. thinks it's grand to break agreements.

One territory isn't the issue in fog anyway, now, is it? The point in Fog is being able to see all the adjacent regions from one region - and who's on those regions, and that data, benga didn't happen to post.

I love fog, and I tend to think the 12-hour rule is silly; but the main point remains, OSA agreed to it, LoW adhered to it - and then OSA reneged. LoW will win anyway, but Hamanu wasn't wrong to post that the rule of engagement was violated.

If the rule had been about "can't use a certain map," and that rule was violated, V.J. would probably hollar. I know of at least one instance where a clan had agreed that its members would join no more than x number of games, and when the clan violated that rule (1 member, 1 extra game) people not only cried, the clan got disqualified. Over one member, in one game - as though no other player in that entire clan could make a difference.

You see, it's not a region, or a member, or a game, it's AGREEMENTS VIOLATED that become an issue when discussing and engaging in clan skirmishes.

[reptile]

Not to mention that it wasnt just 1 game nor 1 territory in each game...

Maybe you are new to clan wars and such, but an agreement is an agreement and if you cant follow the rule then you shouldn't be allowed to play. We asked you guys if you wanted to agree to that rule, AT THAT POINT IS WHEN YOU SPEAK UP if you don't like the rule, NOT WHINE ABOUT IT AFTER THE FACT THAT IT WAS AGREED ON AND YOUR CLAN IS THE ONE THAT BROKE THE AGREEMENT MULTIPLE TIMES. i have been talking with benga and have given him and your clan many compliments, if you think for a second you are above your own clans agreement then i will ask that you guys either remake or forfeit the games you cheated on (and then complained that wee said something about it).

[stahrgazer]

i will ask that you guys either remake or forfeit the games you cheated on (and then complained that wee said something about it).

Initially, I thought, let it go. But you know what?

It was an agreement, it WAS violated, and so, I do believe we should push to have those games discarded and new ones made.
It's in the original rules posted by Chuuuuck that any of the skirmish rules can be modified by mutual agreement, which we had.
This means, OSA violated a rule of the tournament - and as I indicated, we all know of an instance where a clan was disqualified totally for violating a rule of a tournament.

I really am thinking we need to push this after all - then maybe, the V.J.'s in clans will learn to adhere to agreements rather than sneer at an extremely mild minor comment someone in the opposing clan makes when they fail to adhere to skirmish agreements.

Edit: added. Especially given that benga himself violated this agreement TODAY.

Game 8665155
2011-03-12 12:12:55 - Game has been initialized
2011-03-12 12:58:32 - benga got bonus of 5 troops added to ?

He, benga, the very one who made the agreement on behalf of OSA, the very one who claimed, the past few days, that he told his clan... violated the same rule he agreed to, and he violated it TODAY.

It's not the only pre-agreement he tried to discard today, either.

A clan that wants to contend with other clans should be more responsible than this.

I’m asking Chuuuck to give serious consideration to establishing the maximum penalties on OSA for violations of agreements they made for these Cup skirmishes: disqualify them. How else will this new clan learn to take skirmish agreements seriously? How else will anyone else believe that these skirmish agreements should be taken seriously?

[V.J.]

First I want to say that I didn't break any rules nor I will. I was just laughing at the stupid rule.It will really help you win a game or make a difference
I see you guys can't take a joke and you are soo serious in winning this like you don't have a life outside of this game.

I love fog, and I tend to think the 12-hour rule is silly

So accept my joke and move on

Not to mention that it wasnt just 1 game nor 1 territory in each game...

I read about one complaint, why don't you enlighten me o mighty reptile so I don't post a lie.

if you think for a second you are above your own clans agreement then i will ask that you guys either remake or forfeit the games you cheated on (and then complained that wee said something about it).

I didn't break any rules, can you get that into your brain?
Are you afraid little chicken? hehe
Sure, do it, you'll lose either way
And try calling me a cheater in my face, I'll gladly give you an option where we can meet.

I really am thinking we need to push this after all - then maybe, the V.J.'s in clans will learn to adhere to agreements rather than sneer at an extremely mild minor comment someone in the opposing clan makes when they fail to adhere to skirmish agreements.

You clan member can speak for himself,and if he finds my joke offensive he'll say so.
Like I said do what you want but you'll lose in the end (if we continue playing)

Edit: added. Especially given that benga himself violated this agreement TODAY.

Game 8665155
2011-03-12 12:12:55 - Game has been initialized
2011-03-12 12:58:32 - benga got bonus of 5 troops added to ?

He, benga, the very one who made the agreement on behalf of OSA, the very one who claimed, the past few days, that he told his clan... violated the same rule he agreed to, and he violated it TODAY.

It's not the only pre-agreement he tried to discard today, either.

A clan that wants to contend with other clans should be more responsible than this.

I’m asking Chuuuck to give serious consideration to establishing the maximum penalties on OSA for violations of agreements they made for these Cup skirmishes: disqualify them. How else will this new clan learn to take skirmish agreements seriously? How else will anyone else believe that these skirmish agreements should be taken seriously?

LOL! Girl, you really want to end this war in a quickest possible way and that is by not playing one at all

But. please plug your brain and think about what you've wrote about game 8665155
It's a Feudal Epic map and if you've played CC since 2008 you must know that those maps have only starting point revealed and there is no way that you would see anything but your landing point!!!!!
So explain why would this be a 12 hour waiting game ?!?!?! And he even said that he'll start because of that and no one complained in the game or posted here on the forum about it!!

Do you really want to win this cowardly?! Nice leaders you two are

[stahrgazer]

I read about one complaint, why don't you enlighten me o mighty reptile so I don't post a lie.

I will. hold on:

OSA requested some concessions from LoW, and we established some parameters for skirmishes.
1) 12-hour rule for engagement, fog of war.
2) LoW would send World2.1 as part of round 2 (required Chuuuuck permission)
3) Game-trades would begin on March 9th with OSA's balance to follow
(4) OSA was so worried about our intention to send a dub, a couple trips, and the balance in quads, they requested we change our lineup - which we did.

LoW agreed to, and followed, those concessions.

On the other hand, OSA agreed then:
1) failed to send games on the 9th. Some came the 10th (after I reminded benga he'd failed to send) the balance did come by the original deadline Chuuuuck set.
2) After requiring LoW to change lineup, including getting Chuuuuck's permission to make World2.1 part of Round 2, OSA tried to send that to us as part of round 1 (I rejected it; based on tourney rules, the higher ranked clan makes that one, plus, it’s a Round 2 Game now at OSA request.)
3) OSA has repeatedly failed to adhere to the 12-hour rule.

Game 8660106
2011-03-09 23:53:37 - Game has been initialized
2011-03-10 01:26:05 - Blinkadyblink received 3 troops for 9 regions
OSA member started the game less than 2 hours after last person joined.

Game 8665737
2011-03-11 04:13:08 - Game has been initialized
2011-03-11 05:03:34 - vragus received 3 troops for 7 regions
OSA member started the game less than 1 hour after last person joined.


Now, benga apologized in one of the games and in pm’s, and said he’d sent a reminder. Yet, after these discussions, which were ongoing the past several days, what did this OSA main representative do, today?
Game 8665155
2011-03-12 12:12:55 - Game has been initialized
2011-03-12 12:58:32 - benga got bonus of 5 troops added to ?

He, benga, the very one who made the agreement on behalf of OSA, the very one who claimed, the past few days, that he told his clan. violated the same rule he agreed to, and he violated it TODAY.

It’s too much, Chuuuuck, a new clan should be more responsible than this.

I’d like you to give serious consideration to establishing the maximum penalties on OSA for violations of agreements they made for these Cup skirmishes: disqualify them. How else will this new clan learn to take skirmish agreements seriously? How else will anyone else believe that these skirmish agreements should be taken seriously?

vj: the game is for fun. Agreements should be taken seriously. It's why tournaments have RULES, and it's why I wasted my time trying to coordinate with your leader, to make sure we all knew what the rules of this particular tournament would be.

One mistake? oops. Two? YEESH CAN'T YOU READ? THREE, FOUR and FIVE?

OSA needs to learn to respect LoW, Chuuuuck, tournaments, the Conqueror's Cup, and every member of every clan in the Cup and other challenges more than saying, "So what we violated our agreements, only crybabies would complain."

As I have mentioned several times, a pretty respectable clan, one a LOT more established than OSA, was disqual'd not long ago for only ONE mistake, a mistake they didn't repeat.

OSA has repeatedly ignored the agreements, some of which OSA requested, and which caused LoW to do some changes,and required Chuuuuck to agree to hold back on one of his original rules - only to have OSA attempt to violate the new agreement that LoW and Chuuuuck had agreed to at OSA's request.

Minorly inconvenient, all of these instances, individually... but added all together, it's a giant, "FU" to the Conqueror's Cup terms and as such, OSA should be disqualified.

In other words, the Legends of War, who are honorable about attempting to adhere to skirmish agreements, shouldn't have to put up with this sort of b.s. from any clan, and neither should Chuuuuck.

p.s. as for your concern that no one commented about it in the game, vj, well, our members were leaving it to the representatives they appointed, but I have now posted the concerns in benga's game. Happy?

[Seamus76]

Seriously? I'm just trying to play some games and have some fun. I think we all understand the agreements, and no one is discounting the need for them or their importance, but from everything I can see people are just trying to get this going in games where that is possible. V.J. was obviously joking with his comment, and the response was a little out of line if anything.

At this point I would almost rather you disqualify us, if not me, if this is going to be such a big deal. At least that way we can move on to something else.

[stahrgazer]

Seriously? I'm just trying to play some games and have some fun. I think we all understand the agreements, and no one is discounting the need for them or their importance, but from everything I can see people are just trying to get this going in games where that is possible. V.J. was obviously joking with his comment, and the response was a little out of line if anything.

At this point I would almost rather you disqualify us, if not me, if this is going to be such a big deal. At least that way we can move on to something else.

Seriously you don't care that your clan violated skirmish agreements in five separate instances?

1 2 3 different members (including your clan rep) started fog games within an hour or two of initialization, nowhere near the 12 hour agreement. Not even close!
4 - After OSA requested game exchanges on the 9th, with OSA sending part, LoW agreed and sent all - to have OSA violate that by not sending any on the day they requested.
5 - After OSA requested World be part of Round 2 (part of the jockeying OSA requested) and after Chuuuuck gave permission for that, OSA tried to send the game as part of round 1, despite benga knew - because I told him - that LoW was not prepared to send another quads after we'd jockeyed things for OSA's request.

As was allowed last year, each clan war can adjust the rules slightly to their liking if both clans agree on the adjusted rules before any games are started and they get my approval.

It is intended that each round of the tournament meets the criteria for a clan war and should be included in the clan challenge rankings.

You don't see why this repeated disregard of the things OSA agreed to, and asked LoW to agree to, looks like more than "oops"?

Seriously?

[V.J.]

I read about one complaint, why don't you enlighten me o mighty reptile so I don't post a lie.

I will. hold on.

I knew you will, you are the original firestarter in this post that wants to win this anyway possible, rather than play a game and be victorious after 41 games.

LoW agreed to, and followed, those concessions.

On the other hand, OSA:
1) failed to send games on the 9th. Some came the 10th, the balance did come by the original deadline you set.
2) After requiring LoW to change lineup, including getting your permission to make World2.1 part of Round 2, OSA tried to send that to us as part of round 1 (I rejected it; based on your tourney rules, the higher ranked clan makes that one, plus, it’s a Round 2 Game now at OSA request.)
3) OSA has repeatedly failed to adhere to the 12-hour rule.

Game 8660106
Game 8665737
Game 8665171

It’s too much, Chuuuuck, a new clan should be more responsible than this.

Really good excuses, I hope everyone gets a kick of your posts

So really Chuuuuck, help this girl (she is begging you, don't make her play!) to win this war because:
1. we didn't make all games in time so they waited 5 minutes after midnight to join because they play 24h a day
2. We wanted World 2.1 to be in the first round! OMG that is such a crime!
3. 3 of our members started their games too early and by doing that they damaged chances of win for "Legends" (don't count Benga, because that is really funny accusation when you don't see anything in that map anyways Game 8665155)

stahrgazer, I wish you all the best with this GAME because I see it means a life to you!

I'll get some wins and points and like seamus says I hope we get disqualified so we don't deal with this silly accusations when nothing was influencing the actual games.

[chemefreak]

Okay. Everyone needs to settle down. The 12 Hour Fog rule is usually the most difficult thing for a new clan to get right. LoW needs to be patient and cut the newbies some slack. OSA needs to make sure they post the move in the chat and needs to stop baiting LoW in this thread over a rule they clearly violated. Hopefully, the 2nd set will go much smoother. Good luck to both clans.

[stahrgazer]

So really Chuuuuck, help this girl (she is begging you, don't make her play!) to win this war because:
1. we didn't make all games in time so they waited 5 minutes after midnight to join because they play 24h a day

You asked for them then; why ask if you didn't want them after all?

2. We wanted World 2.1 to be in the first round! OMG that is such a crime!

No, LoW and Chuuuuck wanted World2.1 in round 1, and planned to send it.

We got Chuuuuck's permission to send in round 2, and changed our player lineup, at OSA's request.

3. 3 of our members started their games too early and by doing that they damaged chances of win for "Legends" (don't count Benga, because that is really funny accusation when you don't see anything in that map anyways Game 8665155)

Three of your members violated terms of the agreement.

I hope we get disqualified so we don't deal with this silly accusations when nothing was influencing the actual games.

Adhering to the tournament, rules, and agreements, is required to participate in the Conqueror's Cup.

OSA did not adhere to tournament rules/agreements. REPEATEDLY. Three different instances, and three times for one of those instances.

OSA should not be allowed to participate in the Conqueror's Cup.

Some members of OSA continue to be blatantly uncaring about OSA's repeated disregard of their agreements, which is further sign that this clan just isn't mature enough yet, to play with the established clans.

Okay. Everyone needs to settle down. The 12 Hour Fog rule is usually the most difficult thing for a new clan to get right. LoW needs to be patient and cut the newbies some slack. OSA needs to make sure they post the move in the chat and needs to stop baiting LoW in this thread over a rule they clearly violated. Hopefully, the 2nd set will go much smoother. Good luck to both clans.

More than one violation of more than one agreement, cheme, no longer looks like a silly mistake. Especially when the very representative who requested/made these agreements, is doing some of the violating

[Seamus76]

Okay. Everyone needs to settle down. The 12 Hour Fog rule is usually the most difficult thing for a new clan to get right. LoW needs to be patient and cut the newbies some slack. OSA needs to make sure they post the move in the chat and needs to stop baiting LoW in this thread over a rule they clearly violated. Hopefully, the 2nd set will go much smoother. Good luck to both clans.

Fair enough. Thanks chemefreak.

[chemefreak]

Okay. Everyone needs to settle down. The 12 Hour Fog rule is usually the most difficult thing for a new clan to get right. LoW needs to be patient and cut the newbies some slack. OSA needs to make sure they post the move in the chat and needs to stop baiting LoW in this thread over a rule they clearly violated. Hopefully, the 2nd set will go much smoother. Good luck to both clans.

More than one violation of more than one agreement, cheme, no longer looks like a silly mistake. Especially when the very representative who requested/made these agreements, is doing some of the violating

I understand your concern. However, the 12 Hour Fog rule was a negotiated parameter and I don't see where anyone defined the penalty for violation. Additionally, if there has been a violation that needs reported (eg late games, etc.), as per the CC2 rules, please bring it to Chuuuuck's attention so that he can make a ruling. Going over and over it again again here is not going to do any good.

[stahrgazer]

Okay. Everyone needs to settle down. The 12 Hour Fog rule is usually the most difficult thing for a new clan to get right. LoW needs to be patient and cut the newbies some slack. OSA needs to make sure they post the move in the chat and needs to stop baiting LoW in this thread over a rule they clearly violated. Hopefully, the 2nd set will go much smoother. Good luck to both clans.

More than one violation of more than one agreement, cheme, no longer looks like a silly mistake. Especially when the very representative who requested/made these agreements, is doing some of the violating

I understand your concern. However, the 12 Hour Fog rule was a negotiated parameter and I don't see where anyone defined the penalty for violation. Additionally, if there has been a violation that needs reported (eg late games, etc.), as per the CC2 rules, please bring it to Chuuuuck's attention so that he can make a ruling. Going over and over it again again here is not going to do any good.

Per Chuuuuck's original rules, rules could be redefined based on mutual agreement and his approval. This was obtained, both clan agreements and Chuuuuck's approval, making those "negotiated terms" now part of the skirmish rules. OSA then violated 3 instances of those rules; violated one of those three separate times, including, their own negotiator violated that rule.

As was allowed last year, each clan war can adjust the rules slightly to their liking if both clans agree on the adjusted rules before any games are started and they get my approval.

It is intended that each round of the tournament meets the criteria for a clan war and should be included in the clan challenge rankings.

I have sent the request that OSA be disqualified for repeatedly violating their agreements, to Chuuuuck, as I said in a post below.

It's the best way I can think of that organizers of these things can make sure that only clans that wish to honor agreements they make, participate.

I don't see these repeated violations as "better" than the clan whose member joined one extra game, so got disqualified... it was terms AGREED TO for participation.

Why is this better? Three different types of violations of agreements, one of which was violated by three different members, doesn't look like this clan wants to adhere to things they agree to.

[chemefreak]

Per Chuuuuck's original rules, rules could be redefined based on mutual agreement and his approval. This was obtained, both clan agreements and Chuuuuck's approval, making those "negotiated terms" now part of the skirmish rules. OSA then violated 3 instances of those rules; violated one of those three separate times, including, their own negotiator violated that rule.

I have sent the request that OSA be disqualified for repeatedly violating their agreements, to Chuuuuck, as I said in a post below.

Great. So let's leave the thread alone (since it won't do any good arguing about it further) and wait and see what Chuuuuck says. Thanks.

[stahrgazer]

Great. So let's leave the thread alone (since it won't do any good arguing about it further) and wait and see what Chuuuuck says. Thanks.

You're quite welcome to leave the LoW thread alone, if you wish; or not to read it, but this is a LoW thread, and I have a right - no - as the member appointed by my clan to represent them for this tournament, I actually have a DUTY to respond.

And, again: I could personally care less about 12 hours in fog. My personal feelings on the agreement isn't the point, though. The point is, my clan wanted to know if it was agreed to, and OSA said yes. Then violated. Three different members, including their rep, and that he violated it 2 days after the initial instance does NOT look like he cared whether his clan did or did not meet their agreements.

(sideline: vj's argument that it doesn't matter in feudal makes no sense to me, since I don't think the 12 hour rule matters on any map. What matters is, 12 hours for fog games was agreed to and repeatedly broken, including by their own representative 2 days after the initial instances of breaking the agreement even though LoW can win without seeing the drops on any map.)

Chuuuuck wanted W2.1 sent in round 1 if possible, and LoW was willing. OSA objected. I obtained Chuuuuck's approval and LoW redid our plan. Then OSA tried to send it anyway - does not look like OSA cared whether they did or did not meet their agreements.

LoW planned to send games by the 13th. OSA requested a swap on the 9th, claiming they could send some, just not all their games. LoW agreed and sent all games. OSA sent none - does not look like OSA cared whether they did or did not meet their agreements.

Is this really a clan that should participate in the Conqueror's Cup? Too many instances of this disregard made me agree with some of the LoW members who wanted us to pursue something right away.

Then let's look at the baiting that has taken place here: doesn't look like some members of this clan care whether they did or didn't meet their agreements, they only care to make LoW look bitchy for standing up for TOURNAMENT AGREEMENTS.

But what is a tournament? It's a series of games with anotber set of rules that all members who play are supposed to adhere to.

LoW did, OSA didn't, repeatedly, a series of agreements broken.

[chemefreak]

Great. So let's leave the thread alone (since it won't do any good arguing about it further) and wait and see what Chuuuuck says. Thanks.

You're quite welcome to leave the LoW thread alone, if you wish; or not to read it, but this is a LoW thread, and I have a right - no - as the member appointed by my clan to represent them for this tournament, I actually have a DUTY to respond.

Actually, as a CD I am one of the Moderators in this forum. The issue is being addressed, as you discussed above, by Chuuuuck and others. If you feel that flaming or baiting is taking place, requiring a response, then please report the offending post. This thread was getting a little bit out of hand so I am simply asking everyone to chill out until a decision is made.

[stahrgazer]

This thread was getting a little bit out of hand so I am simply asking everyone to chill out until a decision is made.

How "out of hand" - because I won't back down when baited, even though I'm not baiting and flaming back?

If you believe it's "out of hand" and you're already a moderator, you can look down the thread and see who's flaming (in other words, it shouldn't take me making a report if you joined because you see something awry, nor should you say me giving reasoned responses despite the bait, is me making this thread out of hand.)

I'm just responding to information inquiries while ignoring the baits; or restating my initial points when the flame-baiters try to twist them.

[benga]

I read about one complaint, why don't you enlighten me o mighty reptile so I don't post a lie.

I will. hold on:

OSA requested some concessions from LoW, and we established some parameters for skirmishes.
1) 12-hour rule for engagement, fog of war.
2) LoW would send World2.1 as part of round 2 (required Chuuuuck permission)
3) Game-trades would begin on March 9th with OSA's balance to follow
(4) OSA was so worried about our intention to send a dub, a couple trips, and the balance in quads, they requested we change our lineup - which we did.

LoW agreed to, and followed, those concessions.

On the other hand, OSA agreed then:
1) failed to send games on the 9th. Some came the 10th (after I reminded benga he'd failed to send) the balance did come by the original deadline Chuuuuck set.
2) After requiring LoW to change lineup, including getting Chuuuuck's permission to make World2.1 part of Round 2, OSA tried to send that to us as part of round 1 (I rejected it; based on tourney rules, the higher ranked clan makes that one, plus, it’s a Round 2 Game now at OSA request.)
3) OSA has repeatedly failed to adhere to the 12-hour rule.

Game 8660106
2011-03-09 23:53:37 - Game has been initialized
2011-03-10 01:26:05 - Blinkadyblink received 3 troops for 9 regions
OSA member started the game less than 2 hours after last person joined.

Game 8665737
2011-03-11 04:13:08 - Game has been initialized
2011-03-11 05:03:34 - vragus received 3 troops for 7 regions
OSA member started the game less than 1 hour after last person joined.


Now, benga apologized in one of the games and in pm’s, and said he’d sent a reminder. Yet, after these discussions, which were ongoing the past several days, what did this OSA main representative do, today?
Game 8665155
2011-03-12 12:12:55 - Game has been initialized
2011-03-12 12:58:32 - benga got bonus of 5 troops added to ?

He, benga, the very one who made the agreement on behalf of OSA, the very one who claimed, the past few days, that he told his clan. violated the same rule he agreed to, and he violated it TODAY.

It’s too much, Chuuuuck, a new clan should be more responsible than this.

I’d like you to give serious consideration to establishing the maximum penalties on OSA for violations of agreements they made for these Cup skirmishes: disqualify them. How else will this new clan learn to take skirmish agreements seriously? How else will anyone else believe that these skirmish agreements should be taken seriously?

vj: the game is for fun. Agreements should be taken seriously. It's why tournaments have RULES, and it's why I wasted my time trying to coordinate with your leader, to make sure we all knew what the rules of this particular tournament would be.

One mistake? oops. Two? YEESH CAN'T YOU READ? THREE, FOUR and FIVE?

OSA needs to learn to respect LoW, Chuuuuck, tournaments, the Conqueror's Cup, and every member of every clan in the Cup and other challenges more than saying, "So what we violated our agreements, only crybabies would complain."

As I have mentioned several times, a pretty respectable clan, one a LOT more established than OSA, was disqual'd not long ago for only ONE mistake, a mistake they didn't repeat.

OSA has repeatedly ignored the agreements, some of which OSA requested, and which caused LoW to do some changes,and required Chuuuuck to agree to hold back on one of his original rules - only to have OSA attempt to violate the new agreement that LoW and Chuuuuck had agreed to at OSA's request.

Minorly inconvenient, all of these instances, individually... but added all together, it's a giant, "FU" to the Conqueror's Cup terms and as such, OSA should be disqualified.

In other words, the Legends of War, who are honorable about attempting to adhere to skirmish agreements, shouldn't have to put up with this sort of b.s. from any clan, and neither should Chuuuuck.

p.s. as for your concern that no one commented about it in the game, vj, well, our members were leaving it to the representatives they appointed, but I have now posted the concerns in benga's game. Happy?

Ad 1) We and I admit of breaking the rule.

Only real violation of the rule was vragus as he killed one of your regions and I posted which so you have Idea what happened.
I thought the sole of that rule was to ensure everyone to see map and therefore have a same chance from the start.
In Iraq and Feudal Epic the map stayed intact.

Ad 2) and 3)
We were not behind any schedule, but as LoW and OSA were so eager to start I started making games as soon as I could fill them.
It was said that the last day this war was to start was 12th.
There was never said anything about the 9th.

You alone started to make games on that day and that day I made my 6 games.
You agreed to wait the last 4 games (thank you for that!) until Saturday and I sent you the 4 maps
(so you know what is coming your way) that were to to be made if our freemiums were to joined them,
as they only could join 2 games only 2 of those were made:
Middle Ages and WW II Europe.

World 2.1 was started by me cause you said that it should be played prior to set 2,
so I just acted in that manner as wanted to speed things up, even said that the whole set 2 can come next weekend
(meant on March 18 to 20).

I have just now dropped the World 2.1 so you can make it.

Ad 4) While we were negotiating by pms, you noticed my offer in this thread
and I said that this should not be changed and could stay as we already agreed to all of the terms
but you went ahead and remade the things.

We don't care in what order the games are played, all of our wars finished in very very fast manner,
I just respected Chuuuucks wish to make as many quad games in set 1.

In conclusion we (I) am here to play and have fun.
You continue to push where there is no reason to push.
We are ok with being disqualified as this is the not the way we wish to conduct our wars.
Prior to this war we started 8 of them and had no problem until now.
We are also eager to win, but not like this.


THIS IS NOT A BAIT.
THIS IS A GAME AND WE ENJOY PLAYING IT.
AND WILL CONTINUE IN SUCH MANNER.
ALL MY INTENTIONS WERE DIRECTED TOWARDS FINISHING THIS IN TIMELY MANNER.
IF THIS CUP IS MORE ABOUT THE RULES THEN GAME ITSELF WE DON'T WANT TO BE PART OF IT.
UP TO NOW YOU DID NOT LOSE ANY PART OF A MAP.
YOU SAW THE MAP AS IT WAS OR I SENT YOU WHAT REGIONS WERE ATTACKED IN PROCESS (1 GAME).
SO ALL IN ALL THIS IS ALL FAIR.

I will not be responding anymore.
Enjoy the war or disqualify us.
(If the rules were to strictly be followed, then Chuuuuck should not also considered us for the Cup
cause we did not have 2 wars fully completed by the Friday, February 18 and also all clans singing up
Saturday February 19 and Sunday, February 20 should not be admitted).

Feb 19 - Kort, The Spanking Monkeys, Legends of War
Feb 20 - IA
Feb 22 - THOTA

So in the end what are we talk about here?


Cheers!

[wiztow]

Fair play Benga this site is supposed to be fun and it's war not pedantic politics and nit picking.

[reptile]

Sure, do it, you'll lose either way
And try calling me a cheater in my face, I'll gladly give you an option where we can meet.

You want to get personal VJ??? ill tell you right now give me a call if you can make it to the Lincoln Nebraska area and i will take care of making sure we can meet up. just give me a call... here is my # : 402-730-2762

[stahrgazer]

Ad 1) We and I admit of breaking the rule.

Only real violation of the rule was vragus as he killed one of your regions and I posted which so you have Idea what happened.
I thought the sole of that rule was to ensure everyone to see map and therefore have a same chance from the start.
In Iraq and Feudal Epic the map stayed intact.

The agreement was wait 12 hours to play.

Ad 2) and 3)
We were not behind any schedule, but as LoW and OSA were so eager to start I started making games as soon as I could fill them.
It was said that the last day this war was to start was 12th.
There was never said anything about the 9t

You alone started to make games on that day and that day I made my 6 games.
You agreed to wait the last 4 games (thank you for that!) until Saturday and I sent you the 4 maps
(so you know what is coming your way) that were to to be made if our freemiums were to joined them,
as they only could join 2 games only 2 of those were made:
Middle Ages and WW II Europe.

No. I said, "ready when you are." You asked for the swap to begin that day (the 9th) but said you couldn't send all, that 4 were in question. I agreed on behalf of LoW that we could start the swap on the 9th.

You didn't send ANY.

World 2.1 was started by me cause you said that it should be played prior to set 2,
so I just acted in that manner as wanted to speed things up, even said that the whole set 2 can come next weekend
(meant on March 18 to 20).

I have just now dropped the World 2.1 so you can make it.

No. I told you Chuuuuck agreed to your request to have us change our plan around, including W2.1 later, and that Chuuuuck further requested that we start our Round 2 games game-by-game as people were freed up to play them.

Ad 4) While we were negotiating by pms, you noticed my offer in this thread
and I said that this should not be changed and could stay as we already agreed to all of the terms
but you went ahead and remade the things.

No. What you said was, can LoW please re-do its plan to send 1 dubs, a few trips, the rest quads, and the W2.1 and instead send you all trips and quads but not the W2.1?
LoW got Chuuuuck's permission as far as the W2.1, LoW rearranged its gameplan, all for you.

Then you wanted a different quads after all, which I could not grant you, as I told you, because your request for the triples instead of the dubs and the other quads instead of the World2.1 max'd some of our players' gamecounts for the round, and we were NOT going to change who was playing which game because OSA wanted to keep changing games.

We don't care in what order the games are played, all of our wars finished in very very fast manner,
I just respected Chuuuucks wish to make as many quad games in set 1.

If you didn't care, why the heck did you keep requesting LoW to redo its plan?

We bent over backwards to accommodate your requests.

The LEAST you could've done was stick to what we ended up agreeing on.

In conclusion we (I) am here to play and have fun.
You continue to push where there is no reason to push.
We are ok with being disqualified as this is the not the way we wish to conduct our wars.
Prior to this war we started 8 of them and had no problem until now.
We are also eager to win, but not like this.

If none of this matters, why did you make the requests you did?

IF THIS CUP IS MORE ABOUT THE RULES THEN GAME ITSELF WE DON'T WANT TO BE PART OF IT.

Tournaments are more about the rules of engagement than the games themselves. You obviously cannot understand that, which adds to my concern that you should not be part of this tournament.

If you just want to play games willy nilly, why did you join a tournament that had pre-established rules? If you didn't care which way things were played, why did we spend hours making sure LoW had adjusted its gameplan to your requests?

Why can't you understand that after we did spend those hours, and after LoW did adhere to your requests, including getting Chuuuuck's permission for your requested deviation from HIS plan, your arbitrary changing of all those plans is not appropriate conduct?

UP TO NOW YOU DID NOT LOSE ANY PART OF A MAP.
YOU SAW THE MAP AS IT WAS OR I SENT YOU WHAT REGIONS WERE ATTACKED IN PROCESS (1 GAME).
SO ALL IN ALL THIS IS ALL FAIR.

Right. We got no visibility to who owned what regions adjacent to the region we cannot see, so your posting which region got taken doesn't make up for that.

But you're still missing the point:
You requested concessions, and agreed to various things, then violated those things repeatedly.

(If the rules were to strictly be followed, then Chuuuuck should not also considered us for the Cup
cause we did not have 2 wars fully completed by the Friday, February 18 and also all clans singing up
Saturday February 19 and Sunday, February 20 should not be admitted).

I see. Because Chuuuuuck made a command decision for the Cup tournament he's sponsoring, you thought it was okay for you to make all these different command decisions no matter whom else it would affect.

LoW does NOT think that's okay.

So in the end what are we talk about here?

We are talking about OSA repeatedly requesting or agreeing to do one thing, then deciding to do something different than the agreement, on a whim.

You're admitting doing that, throughout your post.

You're still asking what's wrong with it, and you're still making LoW the badguy for pointing out that 1) this is inappropriate conduct, and 2) that these repeated violations of the agreed-to terms of engagement should disqualify you from the Cup tournament.

In other words, despite this big issue we're making over your clan repeatedly violating terms you requested and agreed to, you STILL see nothing wrong with what you've done.

As was allowed last year, each clan war can adjust the rules slightly to their liking if both clans agree on the adjusted rules before any games are started and they get my approval.

It is intended that each round of the tournament meets the criteria for a clan war and should be included in the clan challenge rankings.

Having made those requests and agreements, OSA was bound to them by rules of this tournament.

OSA repeatedly violated those terms, AFTER games started; OSA admits it, and STILL, per benga's post, sees nothing wrong with it.

So, the question to Chuuuuck is, does he want Cup participants who refuse to honor terms they agree to and think it's a farce to try to hold them to their agreements?

[Great-Ollie]

Sure, do it, you'll lose either way
And try calling me a cheater in my face, I'll gladly give you an option where we can meet.

You want to get personal VJ??? ill tell you right now give me a call if you can make it to the Lincoln Nebraska area and i will take care of making sure we can meet up. just give me a call... here is my # : 402-730-2762

V.J. I suggest you don't meet up with reptile. Just a thought lol. Anyways i just want to wish everyone good luck in the games and i hope everything works out because i would love to see the final tally in this war. My guess is LOW wins 26 to 15. OSA came quick out of the gates with some wins, but LOW is a top tier clan. Good luck stahrgazer and reptile!