babysitting abuse[noted]es

[eddie2]

Listen, I also used to do this when I was running BotFM. I work full time, I'm married, and I also study for an advanced degree full time. Because of work I also move between the US and Korea quite often. Sometimes I only have time to come online and update important clan information or feel the need to respond to general BS like this C & A report. If someone who is sitting my account while I cannot play or take the time to arrange a move with my teammates and the sitter is announced in chat, then I do not see a rule being broken. All this boils down to is TIME being pissed because they lost. They are grabbing at straws to get someone in trouble.

Honestly, I think the abuse here is being done by Eddie2 and no one else. He is being a troublemaker plain and simple. A lot of people use sitters on this site, especially in clans and team games, and it isn't fair to drag their personal lives out in front of the entire site in defense of that. If CC rules in favor of Eddie2 I will simply not play here anymore, no love lost. I'll gladly find some other way to enjoy my free time with friends.

francis the issue is not doing clan work or not having time to play. the issue is if you have time to speed play games post none clan related stuff should a sitter play your shots.

[Leehar]

This is an interesting discussion, and to me it just brings to light several things that I've been guilty of myself. I'm thinking it's not just me alone that has waited until almost the last minute in team games, just because I want that extra time to think over my move, or discuss it with teammates, but that doesn't stop me from doing other things in the meanwhile. From what I can see, perhaps thats the issue here, where Bogan was content to leave the game for a bit, but when draq saw that the time was down to 30 minutes he took it upon himself to make the move. And I believe this is perhaps an issue which hopefully the mh's and/or admins can lend more clarity on.
I've heard numerous times from various sources how there is a lot of sitting abuse in the clan arena, (perhaps stemming from the fact that accounts should only be sat on when a person is actually away maybe, and not willy-nilly like a lot of us are comfortable doing.)
If I need to readdress how I take my turns, then it's something that I would like to know.

Also, I'll just step out in eddies defence as well in that I can personally vouch for him trying better to address these things correctly, He has been a figure of controversy for a bit, but I believe he tries doing what he can to the best of his ability.
For this scenario, I was there in Live Chat when he mentioned a while ago this situation, and coming as it did hot on the heels of the Kort-Tofu issue, I advised him to just let it go and that it may not be something worth bringing up. So whatever malignant reasons he may have had for mentioning this now, (maybe it was because of how tofu-kort was resolved, or that members of bofm antagonized him which I can also unfortunately believe) I believe it's no longer relevant, and that we should just concentrate on how this situation, and others similar, fall under the sitting guidelines.

[jefjef]

This is an interesting discussion, and to me it just brings to light several things that I've been guilty of myself. I'm thinking it's not just me alone that has waited until almost the last minute in team games, just because I want that extra time to think over my move, or discuss it with teammates, but that doesn't stop me from doing other things in the meanwhile. From what I can see, perhaps thats the issue here, where Bogan was content to leave the game for a bit, but when draq saw that the time was down to 30 minutes he took it upon himself to make the move. And I believe this is perhaps an issue which hopefully the mh's and/or admins can lend more clarity on.
I've heard numerous times from various sources how there is a lot of sitting abuse in the clan arena, (perhaps stemming from the fact that accounts should only be sat on when a person is actually away maybe, and not willy-nilly like a lot of us are comfortable doing.)
If I need to readdress how I take my turns, then it's something that I would like to know.

Also, I'll just step out in eddies defence as well in that I can personally vouch for him trying better to address these things correctly, He has been a figure of controversy for a bit, but I believe he tries doing what he can to the best of his ability.
For this scenario, I was there in Live Chat when he mentioned a while ago this situation, and coming as it did hot on the heels of the Kort-Tofu issue, I advised him to just let it go and that it may not be something worth bringing up. So whatever malignant reasons he may have had for mentioning this now, (maybe it was because of how tofu-kort was resolved, or that members of bofm antagonized him which I can also unfortunately believe) I believe it's no longer relevant, and that we should just concentrate on how this situation, and others similar, fall under the sitting guidelines.

This is a very good post.

I see a few my opponents wait to the last few minutes to take a turn. It happens. To some it's a strategy. It drives me nuts when a partner waits to the end. I hate missed turns.

I myself have passes to about a dozen accounts and when I notice one of them get under 3 hours there are times I jump in and take their short time turns if I I don't plan on being on the comp b4 they would miss AND if you ever have played team games with bogan you know that there is always a chance that he will miss turns. His pards would be nuts to see him down to 30 minutes and not jump in and cover him..

Draq announced he was taking the turn. That in itself pretty well proves that the only intent was to make sure a very important turn wasn't missed.

I have noticed that cheaters don't normally announce the act of cheating. This is only a spurious and vindictive complaint. If CC does not handle it as such I can get this forum flooded with the same kind of crap complaints.

EDIT: I see AAF triple (3) posted.. That is an obvious posting violation itself... Can we all start doing that?

[eddie2]

ok let me say one thing again i admit i should not of brought this up in the challenge thread. But all i got was bogangod was the most experianced team player in the clan. So think a very experianced player would not let a game time down. letting another player take his shot. i am very sorry for bringing it up within the challenge thread but i do feel this is an issue that needs to be addressed very much. because as it stands bofm were in breach of site rules.

[jefjef]

But all i got was bogangod was the most experianced team player in the clan. So think a very experianced player would not let a game time down. l

So you acknowledge that a lesser experienced player taking the turn is not done for strategic purposes.

As for experienced players letting a game wind down. I see it quite often. Nippersean likes to do that. Bruceswar does it. Several players do it.

[eddie2]

But all i got was bogangod was the most experianced team player in the clan. So think a very experianced player would not let a game time down. l

So you acknowledge that a lesser experienced player taking the turn is not done for strategic purposes.

As for experienced players letting a game wind down. I see it quite often. Nippersean likes to do that. Bruceswar does it. Several players do it.

no all i got of of you was bogan was the most experianced player. now it is down to the c and a mods to decide if that reason is because he does not actually play his shots. but others do.

as for others doing it do they play there shots or not.

[eddie2]

ok Do you know what really is starting to annoy me in this.

the fact that all moderators have been online and only one could give his view. I am sorry i have read comments in private threads and pms but only one of them can give a opinion on this in the thread.(excluding c and a mods. because we do not want a difference of opinion.)

[JoshyBoy]

Hey eddie, the guys will be working behind the scenes to pass judgement, so try not to worry. This will be finalised soon.

[AAFitz]

Well it's commendable that you are able to sort throw all this crap and reach a conclusion you feel you can confidently speak out about AAfitz, I mean eddie has been throwing everything but the kitchen sink at us. If you look in the clan war thread you can see him trying to fabricate evidence about speed games being played while taking a turn. The dates were a month apart. -Pehraps this did happen in another case, but he is obviously on a which hunt and doesn't care about anything, least of all motive, or truth, just drama.

It would appear yes that the babysitting rules were not followed precisely, and that is regrettable. But as I think you, and everyone except eddie, allows for there is zero motive here, it is obviously an accident. I do believe C&A also looks at motive to some extent, and where people have obviously violated a rule by accident the sentence is milder if delivered at all.

What should possibly come of this? A reprimand perhaps, a signal that said people need to be more vigilant when babysitting.
That would be fair I suppose.

So let the men in orange have their say and we can all get on with our lives.

Well again, I am only saying that if the babysitting rules were not followed, they werent followed, and its a legitimate complaint. A warning for breaking the rules is at least prudent, if rules were in fact broken.

I myself have not researched the actual claims. I am merely assuming the information is accurate. If it is not and its fabricated, then it would be eddie, in the hot seat.

In any case, even if some babysitting rules were broken, theres no way games get reversed from it, unless it was ridiculously blatant, which is at least hard to prove. However, It would be arguable I suppose if you had one good player playing all four peoples turns that the games would be forfeit, for a gross and obvious breaking of the rules for the purpose of advantage. That is all hypothetical.

Im only suggesting that if the information is correct, and there was a player playing speed games, posting on the forum and clearly had plenty of time to make turns in a clan game, but another player babysat those games....it is indeed very suspect and worthy of mention.

[eddie2]

Hey eddie, the guys will be working behind the scenes to pass judgement, so try not to worry. This will be finalised soon.

no joshy what i am meaning i make some valid points that get distracted from because people know i am short tempered and it ends up with me getting done for flaming.

[40kguy]

i think he should get a warning.

[AAFitz]

This is an interesting discussion, and to me it just brings to light several things that I've been guilty of myself. I'm thinking it's not just me alone that has waited until almost the last minute in team games, just because I want that extra time to think over my move, or discuss it with teammates, but that doesn't stop me from doing other things in the meanwhile. From what I can see, perhaps thats the issue here, where Bogan was content to leave the game for a bit, but when draq saw that the time was down to 30 minutes he took it upon himself to make the move. And I believe this is perhaps an issue which hopefully the mh's and/or admins can lend more clarity on.
I've heard numerous times from various sources how there is a lot of sitting abuse in the clan arena, (perhaps stemming from the fact that accounts should only be sat on when a person is actually away maybe, and not willy-nilly like a lot of us are comfortable doing.)
If I need to readdress how I take my turns, then it's something that I would like to know.

Also, I'll just step out in eddies defence as well in that I can personally vouch for him trying better to address these things correctly, He has been a figure of controversy for a bit, but I believe he tries doing what he can to the best of his ability.
For this scenario, I was there in Live Chat when he mentioned a while ago this situation, and coming as it did hot on the heels of the Kort-Tofu issue, I advised him to just let it go and that it may not be something worth bringing up. So whatever malignant reasons he may have had for mentioning this now, (maybe it was because of how tofu-kort was resolved, or that members of bofm antagonized him which I can also unfortunately believe) I believe it's no longer relevant, and that we should just concentrate on how this situation, and others similar, fall under the sitting guidelines.

This is a very good post.

I see a few my opponents wait to the last few minutes to take a turn. It happens. To some it's a strategy. It drives me nuts when a partner waits to the end. I hate missed turns.

I myself have passes to about a dozen accounts and when I notice one of them get under 3 hours there are times I jump in and take their short time turns if I I don't plan on being on the comp b4 they would miss AND if you ever have played team games with bogan you know that there is always a chance that he will miss turns. His pards would be nuts to see him down to 30 minutes and not jump in and cover him..

Draq announced he was taking the turn. That in itself pretty well proves that the only intent was to make sure a very important turn wasn't missed.

I have noticed that cheaters don't normally announce the act of cheating. This is only a spurious and vindictive complaint. If CC does not handle it as such I can get this forum flooded with the same kind of crap complaints.

EDIT: I see AAF triple (3) posted.. That is an obvious posting violation itself... Can we all start doing that?

I am not triple posting. I am individually responding to three unique posts in general, with three unique responses, and that is more than obvious. I suppose I could have condensed them into one post, but I did not and have no idea if I am supposed to. I am happy to accept my punishment if this is against the forum rules, however.

I myself think they are on topic, individually responsive and the only violation is that its three posts instead of one massive one, with the same exact words. I dont really know the various technicalities of the forum rules though. I know no flaming, no spamming and no baiting. I did none of those. If there is a no making three posts that should be one...well, guilty as charged.

[AAFitz]

They were teammates in that game. Who cares who was taking the turns? This is vindictive and silly Eddie. You guys lost, deal with it.

It may be vindictive, but he got caught breaking the rule pretty red handed. I think its you that will have to deal with that, as well as the player in question.

I think what is silly is defending it.

Did he get caught? REALLY? So Eddie found some evidence that the times and dates corresponded-rather than the same date-but different months? And please keep in mind that the ONLY reason this is happening is because TIME lost their clan war to BOFM. And instead of questioning the one or two games that this happened in-Eddie demanded that Bogans games AND Draqs games in the war (ALL OF THEM) be forfeited or replayed or he was filing a C & A report. The first two options were declined-so lo and behold here is the C & A report.

If they want to clarify and enforce the babysitting rule-which they should-that should be done in the rules-not via this complaint.

Actually, I am presuming he did. If he was not breaking the babysitting rules, then obviously it is an illegitimate complaint. If he wasnt posting in the forum, or posting on walls and playing speed games, and letting someone else make his turns, than the evidence is all wrong, and if purposefully wrong, perhaps even eddie is in trouble.

If it is correct however, my post is accurate and I stand by it. I posted with the assumption the facts were correct, which no one to date has denied, especially the people defending the action itself.. If they are wrong there is no case. Are you saying the evidence is wrong and those things did not happen?

Either way, there's no way it will affect the outcome of the games, or the challenge, unless it is beyond utter extreme gross abuse, which I doubt it is. I suspect a warning of babysitting violations, if such violations happened would be handed out.

I also think all of this is self evident, which is why I posted.

[Pirlo]

eddie did nothing but reporting an abuse.... i might be not abuse, but eddie thinks it is, so he just reported that... why are you mad people? let's just wait for the mods judgment...

cheers

[jefjef]

eddie did nothing but reporting an abuse.... i might be not abuse, but eddie thinks it is, so he just reported that... why are you mad people? let's just wait for the mods judgment...

cheers

Why the hate and anger? eddie publicly demanded a ransom from bogan in re of this using inaccurate and twisted evidence.

1) Forfiet all clan war games bogan was in.
2) Replay said clan war games.
3) Have a c & A complaint filed...

Pretty self evident why this complaint was filed.

[drunkmonkey]

eddie did nothing but reporting an abuse.... i might be not abuse, but eddie thinks it is, so he just reported that... why are you mad people? let's just wait for the mods judgment...

cheers

People are mad because eddie's using the complaint to try and forfeit games for BOFM in the clan challenge.

I predict this is the last war TIME gets with a top 20 clan. Even if bogan/draq gets a warning, you guys shot yourself in the foot on this one. Bravo.

[Arama86n]

eddie did nothing but reporting an abuse.... i might be not abuse, but eddie thinks it is, so he just reported that... why are you mad people? let's just wait for the mods judgment...

cheers

No he didn't.
He first demanded that 11 games be forfeited.
he then (one would suppose realizing it wasn't going to fly) tried to give BoFM three choices. Forfeit all games played by BoganGod or replay them without him. If not he would make a C & A case.
He worded it as three options, but I suppose Shaneback is correct that in a way you could call it an attempt at blackmail. "forfeit 11 games or I'm reporting you". Ofc according to himself this is eddie trying to take the high road

This whole public drama is the result of BoFM refusing to forfeit 11 games to TIME because of an honest mistake.
Eddie didn't go public at first and worded his request nicely to us.; When it became apparent that we weren't going to comply... well the whole world has seen the rest.

I'm really not that interested in posting about this any more, but If you've been hearing eddies version you might not have the whole story... I'd suggest reading our clan-war thread from the time eddie says "hold your horses something has come up". That should give you a good idea of what's going on.

[40kguy]

eddie did nothing but reporting an abuse.... i might be not abuse, but eddie thinks it is, so he just reported that... why are you mad people? let's just wait for the mods judgment...

cheers

Why the hate and anger? eddie publicly demanded a ransom from bogan in re of this using inaccurate and twisted evidence.

1) Forfiet all clan war games bogan was in.
2) Replay said clan war games.
3) Have a c & A complaint filed...

Pretty self evident why this complaint was filed.

well if this is the case then just suck it up.

[Pirlo]

eddie did nothing but reporting an abuse.... i might be not abuse, but eddie thinks it is, so he just reported that... why are you mad people? let's just wait for the mods judgment...

cheers

No he didn't.
He first demanded that 11 games be forfeited.
he then (one would suppose realizing it wasn't going to fly) tried to give BoFM three choices. Forfeit all games played by BoganGod or replay them without him. If not he would make a C & A case.
He worded it as three options, but I suppose Shaneback is correct that in a way you could call it an attempt at blackmail. "forfeit 11 games or I'm reporting you". Ofc according to himself this is eddie trying to take the high road

This whole public drama is the result of BoFM refusing to forfeit 11 games to TIME because of an honest mistake.
Eddie didn't go public at first and worded his request nicely to us.; When it became apparent that we weren't going to comply... well the whole world has seen the rest.

I'm really not that interested in posting about this any more, but If you've been hearing eddies version you might not have the whole story... I'd suggest reading our clan-war thread from the time eddie says "hold your horses something has come up". That should give you a good idea of what's going on.

at least eddie gave you some options... I take it as a positive point for eddie's favor

[BoganGod]

jefjef, there is no need for the nature of your post with the whole massive letters and bold writing, trying to bait eddie.

I suggest we all wait and see what happens, and not be nasty to eddie or anyone else for that matter. I trust in the judgement of our C&A moderators, and so should all of you.

Could you maybe get eddie to stop baiting people, maybe view things with both eyes, and stop being such a poor loser. Thanks to all that have posted in here. Eddie is after attention, it is all he/she/it lives for. Might I suggest that deny the child attention and CC might be a more peaceful place.

Eddie myself and the pirates don't need to cheat to win. We haven't cheated.

[Evil Semp]

Enough is enough. It is obvious that nothing meaningful is being added here so I am going to lock this.

[Evil Semp]

The arguments for both side of the situation can be justified, it looks like it could be miscommunication between the account sitter and the account holder. Seeing how this is the only incident here I am going to NOTE this report. Bogan and Draq let this be your notice to be more careful in the future.