KoRT's decision in the Conqueror's Cup

[eddie2]

Looking at the rules of the CCup, I still fail to understand why KORT was given the option to decide the penalty. It was an organizer run event, and the organizer should be the one to decide on a rule/penalty change if there is one. KORT should not have been put into the position to decide the penalty in the first place, and I know a few people are perceiving this as "I'm hoping KORT lets me out of a bad rule". If you are going to consult about a rule/penalty change, then you should involve all the clans involved in the event, even if the final decision will be one most do not like.

I've had a few pms about whether I should be intervening and over-ruling the decision. The CCup is a private event and does not interfere with anything official and is hence not the Clan Director's jurisdiction. There is a question in the CLA whether gaming privileges should be given to wars/events that contain "non-standard" penalties though, and clearly an attempt to create "standard practices" is something that the CLA does work on.

so jp i dont want 2 sound bad but does that mean this statement from the ccup thread is not a true statement.

It is intended that each round of the tournament meets the criteria for a clan war and should be included in the clan challenge rankings.

because it is my view that if it is being included in the clan rankings you do have the jurisdiction to get involved in this. because in your statement above you have also stated that kort should not of made the final dissision for the punishment.

[Big Whiskey]

It's really a shame that such a great clan challenge(2 top clans with a 1 game difference)had to end like this.I never thought kort would do such a thing.I have had the pleasure of being part of several great clan challenges,and for me,that's what makes this site fun.

[jpcloet]

so jp i dont want 2 sound bad but does that mean this statement from the ccup thread is not a true statement.

It is intended that each round of the tournament meets the criteria for a clan war and should be included in the clan challenge rankings.

because it is my view that if it is being included in the clan rankings you do have the jurisdiction to get involved in this. because in your statement above you have also stated that kort should not of made the final dissision for the punishment.

"Intended" <> Abosolute, sometimes the best intention does not yield the results we thought they would

It met the criteria at the time for clan wars (still does), there are no set standards for penalties and defaults and most wars are still primarily agreed to by the clans involved. Lots of wars are included in the informal rankings as long as the size is there. Again, working on more standards, as long as they are reasonable and not onerous.

[eddie2]

so jp i dont want 2 sound bad but does that mean this statement from the ccup thread is not a true statement.

It is intended that each round of the tournament meets the criteria for a clan war and should be included in the clan challenge rankings.

because it is my view that if it is being included in the clan rankings you do have the jurisdiction to get involved in this. because in your statement above you have also stated that kort should not of made the final dissision for the punishment.

"Intended" <> Abosolute, sometimes the best intention does not yield the results we thought they would

It met the criteria at the time for clan wars (still does), there are no set standards for penalties and defaults and most wars are still primarily agreed to by the clans involved. Lots of wars are included in the informal rankings as long as the size is there. Again, working on more standards, as long as they are reasonable and not onerous.

but jp this game forfiet rule was not in place at the start of the ccup and was added at a later stage without the clearence of all clans that were active in the challenge. because i am sure not one of the clans including kort would of agreed to it at the start. hence they should be a intervention even if it is a vote between all the clans involved in the cup 2 see if this rule should of been added.

[pimphawks70]

Eddie. It was agreed upon in hopes that the penalty was so severe that the rule wouldn't be broken. In hindsight it was a bad call, but it's not like new rules were being made up as the Cup progressed. However poor CoRT's choice may have been, it wasn't a made up rule they were enforcing.

[Foxglove]

As a point of clarification regarding the rule, it was added AFTER some sign-ups but PRIOR to any Conqueror's Cup games:

viewtopic.php?f=441&t=106968&p=2407545&hilit=forfeit#p2407545

Chuuuuuck posted in the thread (on January 18th) to draw attention to the notice - it wasn't just buried as an edit in the original post.

Also - thanks jp for locking the other thread and keeping an eye on this one.

[Qwert]

First i dont know who create these insane rule-one mistake-all games forfeith?
In clan league ,you have fair punishment-one game mistake-one game forfeit-these is ok.
Many people say,before even start ,that these is chalenge of one of best clans,and instead to be great chalenge, these become circus, and its look that will end like circus.

[Leehar]

Looking at the rules of the CCup, I still fail to understand why KORT was given the option to decide the penalty. It was an organizer run event, and the organizer should be the one to decide on a rule/penalty change if there is one. KORT should not have been put into the position to decide the penalty in the first place, and I know a few people are perceiving this as "I'm hoping KORT lets me out of a bad rule".

I think Chuck pretty much did make the decision on applying the ruling in
[quote=Chucks Post

If (any clan is) found in violation, that clan will forfeit EVERY game that player has played in that clan challenge for the tournament.

As per the rules of the cup. TOFU will forfeit all 21 games listed above as far as the Conqueror's Cup is concerned. According to my count, this makes the official score of this challenge currently 12-36 in KoRT's favor with 12 games outstanding. KoRT will advance to the finals where they will face off with THOTA.[/quote]
And Kort just probably took it to a vote to decide whether they should apply the ruling, or not (over concerns that the ruling's a bit harsh). They obviously chose the former.

[TheSaxlad]

Cort?

Cowards of The Round Table?

[Chariot of Fire]

You catch on fast

[4 U 2 NV]

The decision is made. Public opinion will not change it.

For everyone to judge and start insulting a clan based on a decision that shouldn't have been brought to them is stupid. Nothing will be gained from this thread other than personal judgements and insults. Is this really necessary?

[khazalid]

i think that's the point of the thread, isn't it?

[trapyoung]

For everyone to judge and start insulting a clan based on a decision that shouldn't have been brought to them is stupid.

Actually Chuck has a past history of allowing parties to bargain around certain rules. He has always been open to letting clans organize or agree to their own contingencies, and I think (not positive) that he intimated to KoRT that they could impose the rule to its fullest extent or allow a modified penalty. So I wouldn't say that the decision should not have been brought to them especially in light of how Chuck has conducted similar instances in the past.

But, yes, the decision is made. The good thread is locked, but I don't find anything said in here particularly vitriolic or distasteful. The question is simply how you perceive the decision's impact on KoRT's reputation. It does not ask you whether the decision was right or wrong, just how your perception was effected. No flames have gone in here, nor should there be a need to flame, it's a public perception poll - the merits of the decision were argued in the other thread.

[Chariot of Fire]

As a point of clarification regarding the rule, it was added AFTER some sign-ups but PRIOR to any Conqueror's Cup games:

viewtopic.php?f=441&t=106968&p=2407545&hilit=forfeit#p2407545

Chuuuuuck posted in the thread (on January 18th) to draw attention to the notice - it wasn't just buried as an edit in the original post.

Also - thanks jp for locking the other thread and keeping an eye on this one.

That's right Foxy. It's in the same paragraph that states "In each clan challenge thread a list of players participating for each clan should be kept up, along with a running tally of how many games each player has played in" - a dereliction of duty on CORT's part as it was neglected, despite reminders, and which led directly to the breach of the rule for which your clan has been so eager to sue.

Seems ironic how your side can breach one rule that led to our infringement and then claim the series. Not very sporting.

[Leehar]

As a point of clarification regarding the rule, it was added AFTER some sign-ups but PRIOR to any Conqueror's Cup games:

viewtopic.php?f=441&t=106968&p=2407545&hilit=forfeit#p2407545

Chuuuuuck posted in the thread (on January 18th) to draw attention to the notice - it wasn't just buried as an edit in the original post.

Also - thanks jp for locking the other thread and keeping an eye on this one.

That's right Foxy. It's in the same paragraph that states "In each clan challenge thread a list of players participating for each clan should be kept up, along with a running tally of how many games each player has played in" - a dereliction of duty on CORT's part as it was neglected, despite reminders, and which led directly to the breach of the rule for which your clan has been so eager to sue.

Seems ironic how your side can breach one rule that led to our infringement and then claim the series. Not very sporting.

But unfortunately legal

[4 U 2 NV]

Maybe it's just me then. I still find this unnecessary.

I'm just getting tired of many people judging KORT. I've played several games with and against players in kort and had only positive experiences. Many people already stated that they should leave the fighting on the battlefield where it belongs. But now it seems like the fighting is being left in the forums based on a decision. Does this decision reflect how I perceived them in my past and future games with them? Definitely not. I will still enjoy the games. And this goes for all other people.

Maybe this is why I barely post in the forums, but seeing how this will affect the future ccup. I found it important to come out of my hole to follow up

[jpeter15]

I'll bet CORT wishes they had a do-over now. Won the battle, but lost the war. Pyrrhic victory. Cut off their nose to spite their face.

Its still hard to believe they would choose the route that was a lose-lose for all involved. Its especially tough since the actual games were so hard fought on both sides. The challenge was going to most likely come down to 1 game to decide it all, now its just a joke.

[trapyoung]

Maybe this is why I barely post in the forums, but seeing how this will affect the future ccup. I found it important to come out of my hole to follow up

The decision was going to affect future Cups regardless. This thread isn't about that, it's a poll on the manner in which KoRT carried out the decision. Pretty much every statement by clan leaders, Chuck, JPC, among others echoed the sentiments that the rules would almost certainly be amended for the next iteration. I'm not sure what side you fall on things with regard to the rule and its penalty, but that's probably the more appropriate venue to address your concerns.

Honestly, I know some are tired of the KoRT bashing, but ultimately I did not really see this thread as bashing them, only gauging the general public's feelings regarding the situation. Perhaps if you feel this is one sided you could create your own thread and poll about whether TOFU handled the situation properly. And, ultimately, if you're concerned with people continuing to judge KoRT the fact that an opinion poll reveals how people judge them does not mean they would not continue to do so, albeit privately.

[chemefreak]

Honestly, I know some are tired of the KoRT bashing, but ultimately I did not really see this thread as bashing them, only gauging the general public's feelings regarding the situation.

This whole thread is just a flame. I would hope that if someone started such an inflammatory thread about my clan, JPC or somebody else would man up and shut it down. This is pathetic.

[jpcloet]

Honestly, I know some are tired of the KoRT bashing, but ultimately I did not really see this thread as bashing them, only gauging the general public's feelings regarding the situation. Perhaps if you feel this is one sided you could create your own thread and poll about whether TOFU handled the situation properly. And, ultimately, if you're concerned with people continuing to judge KoRT the fact that an opinion poll reveals how people judge them does not mean they would not continue to do so, albeit privately.

I think the strong response has given you the answer as to the public's opinion, so I'm closing the poll.

The poll is inherently biased (also lacking other options) as the current situation was played out by 3 parties, being EMPIRE (organizers) and the 2 participating clans TOFU and KORT. Yet the focus and direction of most of the minor flames are directed at KORT which is unfair.

The organizers have made a final decision, and all involved in the event will need to accept the decision by all clans involved. I suggest clans focus their attentions to their own clans and not worry so much what the others are doing.