Glow or shadow ?

[gimil]

I think he's saying he has used a dark glow on a dark object, and that there are times when you do not want to add that much contrast, but still need to distinguish an object from it's background.

Come to think of it, I think I have also used a dark shadow on a dark object somewhere. It all depends on the application...

That pretty much what I was saying. Just trying to make the point that this tutorial could narrow some people creative focus.

[porkenbeans]

I think he's saying he has used a dark glow on a dark object, and that there are times when you do not want to add that much contrast, but still need to distinguish an object from it's background.

Come to think of it, I think I have also used a dark shadow on a dark object somewhere. It all depends on the application...

That pretty much what I was saying. Just trying to make the point that this tutorial could narrow some people creative focus.

Can you please show me an illustration ?

If you used a dark shadow on a dark object, then the background must have been darker than the object. So in relation, the object was actually NOT dark, but light(er). Otherwise the effect would have acted to blend in, rather than make the object stand out.

Earlier, this discussion was talking about terminology. I would like to revisit this part of the discussion, as I do not think that everyone is on the same page.

I am specifically referring to the terms Glow and shadow.

My contention is this-
The word "glow" is most commonly used to denote "light". When something is said to have a glow, it is emanating light.

The word "shadow" is most commonly used to denote the absence of light. To cast a shadow, an object is blocking a light source, and therefore the area that is being blocked from light, is called a shadow. This is also the reason that photoshop has included a direction capability for the drop and inner shadow settings.

If you choose to go in and manually change a glow setting to a dark color, or a shadow to a light color, that is fine. But you can not call them dark glows and light shadows. There is no such thing. All you are doing is using the glow setting to create a shadow, and the shadow setting to create a glow.

So in conversation when someone uses the term glow and shadow, we all know what they are talking about, dis-regardless of which transfer mode was used to produce the effect. The effect is either a shadow or glow. So if someone says something like "hey, that object might look good with an outer glow", they are talking about a light color. You can use whichever transfer mode that you wish, to produce the "glow" effect. If you use the drop shadow transfer mode set to a light color, you are making a glow with the shadow tool. The tool IS a "light shadow", but the effect is still a GLOW.

[natty dread]

Well here's a crude example.

[porkenbeans]

Nice try natty.
Your ball is both light and dark.
You have chosen to use a drop shadow. This makes the light part of the ball stand out. If you were to use an outer glow, then the dark part of the ball would stand out.

Also remember that when you are saying that an object is light or dark, it really depends upon its relationship to the background. You may have a somewhat "dark" object. But, if it is over an even darker background than itself, It is "light" in relation.

[gimil]

This is what I mean porky Pie.



As you see the image and the background as of the same saturation and are barely distinguishable. However with a little dark outer glow (which is even less saturated than the background and the circle) is suddenly stands out. With the lighter outer glow is stands out as well.

But the point I am trying to make is that if you want something to stand out you simply need of a different saturation level rather than something contrasting.

I wanted my maps to have a darker theme but needed something to stand out more, I could get away with a outer glow that is simply darker that the original shape that I want to stand out.

I'm not saying what you said is wrong (or at least not all of it) im just trying to open your eyes something a little different. Get what I am saying?

[porkenbeans]

This is what I mean porky Pie.



As you see the image and the background as of the same saturation and are barely distinguishable. However with a little dark outer glow (which is even less saturated than the background and the circle) is suddenly stands out. With the lighter outer glow is stands out as well.

But the point I am trying to make is that if you want something to stand out you simply need of a different saturation level rather than something contrasting.

I wanted my maps to have a darker theme but needed something to stand out more, I could get away with a outer glow that is simply darker that the original shape that I want to stand out.





I'm not saying what you said is wrong (or at least not all of it) im just trying to open your eyes something a little different. Get what I am saying?

You guys are busting my balls.

In this example the object is not dark or light in relation to the background. (it is the same)Therefore, a drop shadow, or outer glow, will both work just as well to make the object stand out. It IS the "contrast" that you are producing that makes it stand out.
Saturation is only how much color is included. It is the brightness, not saturation that we are talking about.

That is NOT to say that saturation levels can't be played with to produce a "contrasting" effect. Texture and pattern as well can be used to help achieve this contrast that makes an object stand out.

[natty dread]

There's lots of ways to create contrast. These are my favorites:

- light/dark contrast - this can be achieved with glows/shadows (and by other means)
- opposite colour contrast - two items that are opposite to each other in the colour circle, eg. red & cyan (by the rgb system)
- sharpness contrast - one item is more in focus than the other, ie. the other is more "blurry"
- saturation contrast - one item has more saturated colours than the other.

[gimil]

You guys are busting my balls.

In this example the object is not dark or light in relation to the background. (it is the same)Therefore, a drop shadow, or outer glow, will both work just as well to make the object stand out. It IS the "contrast" that you are producing that makes it stand out.
Saturation is only how much color is included. It is the brightness, not saturation that we are talking about.

That is NOT to say that saturation levels can't be played with to produce a "contrasting" effect. Texture and pattern as well can be used to help achieve this contrast that makes an object stand out.

You see you didn't say that, what got from your tutorial was 'to make dark colours stand out you should use a light glow and to make light colours stand out you should use a drop shadow'. When in reality there are a million and one different ways to make both light and dark colours stand out

[porkenbeans]

You guys are busting my balls.

In this example the object is not dark or light in relation to the background. (it is the same)Therefore, a drop shadow, or outer glow, will both work just as well to make the object stand out. It IS the "contrast" that you are producing that makes it stand out.
Saturation is only how much color is included. It is the brightness, not saturation that we are talking about.

That is NOT to say that saturation levels can't be played with to produce a "contrasting" effect. Texture and pattern as well can be used to help achieve this contrast, that makes an object stand out.

You see you didn't say that, what got from your tutorial was 'to make dark colours stand out you should use a light glow and to make light colours stand out you should use a drop shadow'. When in reality there are a million and one different ways to make both light and dark colours stand out

Yes, But I did not make the TUT. to show all of the ways.

I noticed that on several projects lately, people are using outside glow to make things stand out (in all instances). Anyways, I hope that this conversation has helped someone.

BTW, I went in to my old dinosaur, (photoshop 7.0). I was going to try to do some experimenting to see what differences there are between the glow and shadow transfer modes.

I found out something very interesting. It seems that my old program does not let me make "light" shadows, or "dark" glows. They both allow for choice of color, but the effect just fades itself out as you approach the same level of brightness. So when I put white on the drop shadow, or a black on the outer glow, they just do not show up.

The old program with its color defaults, on the glows and shadows, seem to guide you into choosing the correct transfer mode for the application.

I believe that this old program has an advantage, in that it prevents making the mistake, that led me to write this TUT.

Here is how I operate the glow and shadow modes with the 7.0-

I leave the programs defaults intact. The shadows with "black", and the glows with off white (yellowish).

So when I am deciding which to choose to use, I just click on one. Adjust its parameters, and only later do I mess with changing the color of the mode. If even then.

I am usually correct in choosing the correct mode, so I rarely come across an instance where the effect is faded, or canceled out all together.