AOS: Orient Express 1883 [quench'd]

[natty dread]

Well for Aquitane, there's too little room in the lower part, it'd look ugly and overlap borders, plus it would be so far in the edge of the map that some people could even miss the whole territory. What I can do is move the aquitane number 1-2 px down so that you can at least read 4-digit #:s even if they overlap slightly.

I could also agree moving the muntenia # 1-2px towards higher x-values.

However,

888's, which is the standard to which maps are usually held

...and there is a reason, namely that situations which require more than 3 digits are extremely marginal, rare even. Not to mention situations where you have more than 3-digit numbers next to each other - frankly, these situations almost never occur outside of mindless build games, and I have a feeling (although I can't know for sure until beta) that the gameplay of this map has a certain dynamic that discourages excessive troop stacking.

[natty dread]

Ok, there were also some few last visual tweaks made. Mainly on the small map.

So here are the images, and the small map with 888:s

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Quench time!


ps. for some reason, I get a strange kind of satisfaction when the random colours of the test numbers happen to match the colour of the territories they are on... switzerland looks real nice on this.

[ender516]

This looks very good right now. Let's move on to Final Forge and show naysayers like lostatlimbo that the Foundry can "get 'er done."

[Industrial Helix]

Generally, I'm satisfied. My biggest gripe is that the italics on the station names make the words hard to read. See Vama or Varna. I think with the bold and outline that it should be clear enough they're not normal territories.

Nitpicks that you ought to consider for the small map:

Move the word Saxony a tidbit to the right.
Lower B.W. a tad.
Move the numbers for Albania up to beneath the name.
Move Austria's numbers so they align with the A in Austria. They're too close to Vienna.
Move the Greece/Bulgaria border up a tad and put Greece's numbers there.
Swap the word Tekir with its numbers so the numbers are on top and the name is on the bottom.
Move Croatia's numbers beneath the name.
Put Westphalia's numbers above the name.

Again, these are nitpicks suitable for the FF. I think its ready and hopefully my compatriots will think so as well.

[natty dread]

Sigh... I spent the entire last night coding a paint.net plugin that allows me to adjust the kerning properly so I could do the italic text on this map, and now the italics aint good?

Oh woe!

Dear mr. Helix, I am gravely concerned about your eyesight. Perhaps your moderating duties have kept you for such long hours staring at the screen that it is starting to have a degenerating effect on your eyes? When have you last seen a professional optometrist?


Seriously though: Personally, I can see clearly that the label of Varna says Varna. And even if you can't see it, does it really matter as there is no similar territory name which you could confuse it for?

The rest of what you say does make sense, for the most part, but I have a problem with these:

Swap the word Tekir with its numbers so the numbers are on top and the name is on the bottom.
Move Croatia's numbers beneath the name.
Put Westphalia's numbers above the name.

Is there a reason for these suggestions? Generally, I like army numbers to be centered to the territory when possible - it is way easier to grasp the territory connections that way, especially on a new map you're not familiar with. When a number is in the side, it's easy to overlook that the territory connects with a territory on the opposite side... know what I mean? That said, if you have solid reasoning for these changes, I promise to at least seriously consider them.

[ender516]

Well, i agree with IH about Varna, it is hard to read, but you're right, there is nothing to confuse it with.

I would guess that moving the Tekir and Westphalia numbers are attempts to avoid overlaps if the numbers get large, but I don't see the point of the Croatia move, myself.

[Industrial Helix]

Well it's not that I'm confused its that it looks real ugly, its pixelated and seems necessary on all the names. Bold serves the purpose just fine.

Swap the word Tekir with its numbers so the numbers are on top and the name is on the bottom. - Two sets of numbers all bunched up like that should be avoided.

Move Croatia's numbers beneath the name. - This is just a preference really. I like the numbers beneath or above the names where possible, you like them centered. Not a big deal if you leave it the way it is.

Put Westphalia's numbers above the name. - I'm thinking if you move Saxony's numbers left some, they're going to be too close to Wetphalia's so it would be better to move Westphalia's above the name.

[natty dread]

I like the numbers beneath or above the names where possible, you like them centered. Not a big deal if you leave it the way it is.

Ideally, I like the numbers beneath/above names AND centered, but centered takes the priority when I can't have both...

Swap the word Tekir with its numbers so the numbers are on top and the name is on the bottom. - Two sets of numbers all bunched up like that should be avoided.

I tried that, and the territory name looks bad there, harder to read and doesn't fit as good. I think in this spot we should just settle that the 888:s are both visible, if someone stacks 4-figure troops there they can just check the numbers from the large map.

As for the rest of things, here's my solution to the issues. Firstly, the plain maps -

v22b large:

Click image to enlarge.

small:

Click image to enlarge.

And both with 888:s:

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

I put a slight blur on Austria to help the numbers show on top of the railway. The blur will always be covered by numbers so it shouldn't look odd.


Lastly, IH, I appreciate your opinion about the italic labels, but previously when there was discussion about the station names people wanted them italic, and I got the impression most people prefered the italic names over the (b)old ones. I can be convinced to change them back, but I want to know what the consensus about them is so I don't have to switch them back&forth.

[Industrial Helix]

You can do italics or you can do bold, but both look silly.

As for Tekir, you should then move the numbers slightly to the left if you don't want to swap name and numbers and fudge the greece/tekir border a little as well. Right now they look like 1 big number.

[natty dread]

You can do italics or you can do bold, but both look silly.

This particular font looks like a totally different font without bold. If I have to change them back I can do it, but I want to hear more opinions about it first.

As for Tekir/Const, here's the best I can do for them - 2 pixels more space:

Click image to enlarge.

[The Bison King]

Bold and Italic looks fine to me, I have no trouble reading anything either.

[porkenbeans]

I like them, although not in love with the outer-glow.

[Industrial Helix]

I like them, although not in love with the outer-glow.

Maybe its the glow that is the problem. To me, it looks pixelated but I wonder if that's an effect of the glow.

[natty dread]

The glow is also necessary to make the text readable in some places. Perhaps, possibly, I can tweak the glow and/or the relationship between the text and it's glow (currently, they're cousins, if I make them more like brothers or sisters then it may work.)

ps. don't ask me what I'm talking about, it's 5:30am here.

[wisemanpsemc]

Both versions?

I need to try and get in here more.

For Tekir it is both. For the small it is all of them, I think in that one it is a function of the font more than anything though.

[natty dread]

Both versions?

I need to try and get in here more.

For Tekir it is both. For the small it is all of them, I think in that one it is a function of the font more than anything though.

I already changed the font. Still having problems with the text?

[wisemanpsemc]

Both versions?

I need to try and get in here more.

For Tekir it is both. For the small it is all of them, I think in that one it is a function of the font more than anything though.

I already changed the font. Still having problems with the text?

Yeah, so you did. It is better now.

[natty dread]

Fixed station labels

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Quench!

[natty dread]

So, any more suggestions or is this ready for FF?

[theBastard]

I like it. and looking forward to play it...
only glow looks as problem a little. I think it mis not necessary, the "stations" font is enough different as "regions" font. and when is possible to read "regions" font without glow (in the sea) this could valid also for "stations" font.

[natty dread]

Thanks for your input, but I'm keeping the glow - it may not be "necessary" strictly speaking but I like it as it sets the stations apart.

[Victor Sullivan]

I don't understand all this jibba jabba about the fonts and crap, it looks fine. I think it's FF time.

-Sully

P.S. Look at the cool sig natty made 4 me

[porkenbeans]

Thanks for your input, but I'm keeping the glow - it may not be "necessary" strictly speaking but I like it as it sets the stations apart.

This would be true, if the glow was apparent on all of the stations, but it is only so, on the territs over water.

[natty dread]

Thanks for your input, but I'm keeping the glow - it may not be "necessary" strictly speaking but I like it as it sets the stations apart.

This would be true, if the glow was apparent on all of the stations, but it is only so, on the territs over water.

Actually, you're wrong. Look closer at Strasbourg, Vienna or Budapest. Or Berlin. The glow is visible in all of them. Also if I remove the glow they are harder to read at places where there's stuff going under them.

[porkenbeans]

Thanks for your input, but I'm keeping the glow - it may not be "necessary" strictly speaking but I like it as it sets the stations apart.

This would be true, if the glow was apparent on all of the stations, but it is only so, on the territs over water.

Actually, you're wrong. Look closer at Strasbourg, Vienna or Budapest. Or Berlin. The glow is visible in all of them. Also if I remove the glow they are harder to read at places where there's stuff going under them.

No, I did not say that you did not have the glow on them all. I only said that the glow is only noticeable on the ones over water. I realize that the glow is on all of them, but it only stands out, on the "water" ones.

The glow on the territs that are over water, is disguised, so therefore they do not stand, and they do not look different from the others. However, the same can not be said of the station labels.

Can't you just give them the same glow treatment as the territs. I think that if they are not distinguishable from the territs after that, then you may need to look at other ways of separating their appearance.