AOS: Orient Express 1883 [quench'd]

[cairnswk]

What do you think of having a very thin border go all the way round the map? I think that might connect the legend with the map a bit better.

Hm, I'm not sure if it would really suit the style of this map... I'm afraid it would make it look too cramped...

I don't agree. I think you've got plenty of room.
The changes are a very minute improvement.
It still doesn't WOW me, unfortunately.

[natty dread]

Well cairnswk, how about saying what you actually want from this map?

[ender516]

I think you should put the decorative border all around the upper legend. It looks odd to me with the right hand edge missing, and I think you can fit it in.

[cairnswk]

I think you should put the decorative border all around the upper legend. It looks odd to me with the right hand edge missing, and I think you can fit it in.

This was one of the things that i hoped natty might have picked up on.

Well cairnswk, how about saying what you actually want from this map?

natty, i can't tell you what to do. and I wouldn't want to. That's for you to sort out, as you are the graphic artist with this.
But to me the map looks like another map of europe with railway lines on it, and a few good big continents to conquer, with a little different gameplay.
Perhaps you don't have the skills to take this map to the next level with some outstanding design elements that would absoluteyl scream ORIENT EXPRESS
But look at some of my maps for examples:
Poison Rome, Galapagos, Trafalgar, The Egypt series, Jamaica, Rail Australia, Halloween Hollows, Rail Africa, Actium.
If you want to make something of this, don't be content to leave it as it is, that's all i urge. Use your opportunity and dont' waste it.
If you are content, then so be it, but I'll stop now.

[natty dread]

natty, i can't tell you what to do. and I wouldn't want to. That's for you to sort out, as you are the graphic artist with this.

Nor do I want you to, but you're not giving me much to work on. You keep saying you want the map to "scream orient express" to you, but I don't know what kind of image of "orient express" you have in your mind, so it's hard for me to fulfill these wishes without something specific to work on. Saying "make it like the poster on the first page" doesn't really help either... although I have been trying to imitate the style and feel of that poster in some aspects.

I know we've had very different opinions on how a map of orient express should be like, right from the very start. And that's ok, I know if you were making this map it would probably look very different both in gameplay and graphics. Perhaps I don't have the skill you have or experience of 25 maps behind me, but I'm trying my best here, and it gets a little frustrating when you ask me to do things, which I do and then I get to hear "no, it's still not good, it doesn't WOW me."

All I ask is for you to tell me what is wrong with the map if you think there's something wrong with it, so I can then try to address those points. But simply saying "the map doesn't WOW me" isn't giving me much to work on.

[natty dread]

either way - here's the upper legend fixed

Click image to enlarge.

[ender516]

Any way to work in some human figures in period costume waiting for the train, or simply standing and looking like they are from 1883?

[The Bison King]

Any way to work in some human figures in period costume waiting for the train, or simply standing and looking like they are from 1883?

That sounds kind of cheesy.

[natty dread]

Any way to work in some human figures in period costume waiting for the train, or simply standing and looking like they are from 1883?

This is something I have considered. I could try adding some people next to the train image, around Medi & Adriatic seas... however, I'd have to find some good stock photos of 19th century people, because drawings of people wouldn't really go well with the realistic image of the train...

If you know of any such photos, please share.

[natty dread]

Updated XML to reflect the name change of rail monopoly.

Also, following the trends of foundry I picked up on the napoleonic thread, I edited the abbreviated territory names into form Territory (Terr.)

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/2/7/2 ... ientx5.xml

[natty dread]

Experimenting with the legends a bit:

Click image to enlarge.

(in the 19th century everything was sepia!)

[cairnswk]

natty, you ask for some thoughts, well here they are.

two symbols of the OE were the round window, and table lamps.
another of the era was that archway at the istanbul station.

1. so, extend the bottom of your map to full length and where the legend is, recreate that series of doors/archways across the bottom, then place the legend on a board (with present borders) to sit over the top of the archways.
Then get a model of the engine and a carriage and sit it across the archways so it looks like a train running across them.

Put a border all around, and in the upper left corner, re-create a table lamp sitting on a ledge from border, and have the table lamp throwing glow over the title.

In the upper right corner perhaps recreate that round window so that the upper right legend sits in it.

2. another idea would be to move the map down to full length, and over the top, re-create the celing image from one of the carriages with round globes so that it looks like you're looking at the map insider one of the carriages.

3. perhaps you could incorporate somehow an image of the OE going through the Alps in the backcground, there are planty of images out there.

....move things around, and see what works.
Be creative.

[natty dread]

Ok, well, I don't really know how to say this... I'm going to try though. It seems to me there's a fundamental difference in how we view themes in maps: I believe in subtlety when it comes to themes. You want, in your own words, something that "screams orient express."

My vision for this map was to make something that looks like a CC map if someone from the 19th century could have designed a CC map. Or perhaps, a board game... But this map is not just about orient express. If it was, I would only have the rail line and nothing more. There's also the land area, and the stations that are not part of OE, and the interaction between all three. Also I have to think about the bigger picture, as this map will be a part of a map pack...

What I want from this map is to be a view of the 19th century western europe, expressed via the orient express.

As for your 3 suggestions, I feel they would take this map so far from my original concept, that I can't really summon any interest to explore them. I'm really sorry, but I can't force myself to do something that just doesn't feel right to me.

[cairnswk]

^^ Fair enough....as i said "i'll rest now"

[natty dread]

Thanks for understanding cairns. It's not that I don't appreciate your advice & ideas, I do, and I certainly hope you keep giving your opinions & feedback on my maps in the future, but in this case we just seem to have way too different views / visions of the subject of the map.

On another note, here's an idea: a board game, that was perhaps published by the orient express rail moguls to promote their rail services, in the 19th century... Perhaps editions of the board game were available in the train for the passengers to pass the time. This board game would of course be about the orient express... I would make the map look more like a game board, and the legends could perhaps be instructions on pieces of paper laid on top of the game board... The stations could look like pieces on the board... This would be something that would not be terribly far from the concept I have been going for, and it might also bring the map some thematic consistency...

[natty dread]

More experimentation towards the "game board" style -

Click image to enlarge.

[theBastard]

great progress natty

I like it. just some notices:

1, what about to do font on map less black and to them more dark grey (as are borders)? it could have used look as all others fonts on legends.
2, the Netherlands, Belguim and Schleswig are white. they were bad seen when they were black? Amsterdam looks fine...
3, maybe use for Stations different fonts as for land regions?
4, I like colour of Regular station - they fit with map, could be Orient express stations and Orient express terminuses a litle chnged?

[The Bison King]

More experimentation towards the "game board" style -

Interesting idea. I don't think it really hurts the map and if it's something you really want to go with I'd say go for it.

Personally I'd skip on it. I don't think it adds much either and unless you already knew to think of it as an emulation of an actual game board you might just think of it as a mistake or distraction.

[natty dread]

great progress natty

I like it. just some notices:

1, what about to do font on map less black and to them more dark grey (as are borders)? it could have used look as all others fonts on legends.

Good idea.

2, the Netherlands, Belguim and Schleswig are white. they were bad seen when they were black? Amsterdam looks fine...

Yes, they were made white because black was hard to see. Perhaps I should reconsider it, like you say, Amsterdam looks fine.

3, maybe use for Stations different fonts as for land regions?

But I already do!

4, I like colour of Regular station - they fit with map, could be Orient express stations and Orient express terminuses a litle chnged?

I personally like the express stations as they are... they need to be clearly separated from the regular stations, so they need to be different colour.

I think I'll be making the stations flat again though. The current style isn't working as well as I thought.

Interesting idea. I don't think it really hurts the map and if it's something you really want to go with I'd say go for it.

Personally I'd skip on it. I don't think it adds much either and unless you already knew to think of it as an emulation of an actual game board you might just think of it as a mistake or distraction.

Well, there are some who think the map needs more thematic consistency, and making it like a gameboard seemed like a good way to achieve it.

Either way, I think I will be keeping the "flat look" of the map - that is, no drop shadow for the land, minimal drop shadows on other elements.

[ender516]

great progress natty

I like it. just some notices:

1, what about to do font on map less black and to them more dark grey (as are borders)? it could have used look as all others fonts on legends.
2, the Netherlands, Belguim and Schleswig are white. they were bad seen when they were black? Amsterdam looks fine...
3, maybe use for Stations different fonts as for land regions?
4, I like colour of Regular station - they fit with map, could be Orient express stations and Orient express terminuses a litle chnged?

Counter points:
1. I would rarely recommend reducing contrast of text.
4. I like the fact that the Regular stations stand out less and the Orient Express stations and termini stand out more. They are the point of the map.

[theBastard]

But I already do!

sorry, I see now, but they looks a little the same.

I personally like the express stations as they are... they need to be clearly separated from the regular stations, so they need to be different colour.

than you have it.

1. I would rarely recommend reducing contrast of text.

maybe this is what I´ve meant, but it sounds complicated because my bad English. thanks ender.

[natty dread]

version 20.

Click image to enlarge.

[porkenbeans]

One small suggestion-
I think that the flags look good, but would look better, if they were horizontally flipped, so that the swallow tails were facing outward.

[natty dread]

One small suggestion-
I think that the flags look good, but would look better, if they were horizontally flipped, so that the swallow tails were facing outward.

I think you're right. Will do for next update

[The Bison King]

I think that the flags look good, but would look better, if they were horizontally flipped, so that the swallow tails were facing outward.

agreed