AOS: Orient Express 1883 [quench'd]

[natty dread]

Of course there is, I think people were just waiting until you got back...

Oh good

Also...

2.) The rivers. Lightened them up a bit.

After giving it 2 weeks of thought, I might consider trying this after all... I might also be doing some kind of slight hue gradient on the rivers, we'll see if it looks good. Stay tuned

[ViperOverLord]

I like the map. I think it'd be better if you could include Spain to west and Moscow to the east.

[natty dread]

I like the map. I think it'd be better if you could include Spain to west and Moscow to the east.

Glad you like it. However I'm afraid it's a bit late for such drastic gameplay changes, and besides spain and moscow aren't really relevant to the theme of the map.

[Industrial Helix]

Of Pork's suggestions, i really like adding the tip of Italy back into the map. It just looks weird with the tip end of the toe cut off.

[natty dread]

Of Pork's suggestions, i really like adding the tip of Italy back into the map. It just looks weird with the tip end of the toe cut off.

I disagree. There are other maps where countries get cut off because they don't entirely fit on the map. Also I think increasing the size of the map at this point would be counter-productive: it would push the two legends further apart from each other, and it would add more "useless" space on the map, if you know what I mean.

Also, sorry all italians, but Italy really isn't central to the theme of the map... it's more of a "filler" country on this map.

I'm interested to hear other opinions on the matter though.

[The Bison King]

I disagree. There are other maps where countries get cut off because they don't entirely fit on the map. Also I think increasing the size of the map at this point would be counter-productive: it would push the two legends further apart from each other, and it would add more "useless" space on the map, if you know what I mean.

Also, sorry all italians, but Italy really isn't central to the theme of the map... it's more of a "filler" country on this map.

I'm interested to hear other opinions on the matter though.

YEAH!!! Natty's back to Kick Ass and take names! any way, I agree, you don't need to add any of that stuff, we all know what Italy looks like.

[porkenbeans]

Of Pork's suggestions, i really like adding the tip of Italy back into the map. It just looks weird with the tip end of the toe cut off.

Yes, that was my main point as to why the map could stand to be enlarged a bit to get the "Boot" in. It's just such a universal identifier, and looks a bit odd cut off like that. I could see it, if there was a good reason for it, but since you can go all the way to 800 pxls. on the height of the map, there is no good reason that I can see, to have the 'BOOT' cut off.

[Industrial Helix]

Of Pork's suggestions, i really like adding the tip of Italy back into the map. It just looks weird with the tip end of the toe cut off.

I disagree. There are other maps where countries get cut off because they don't entirely fit on the map. Also I think increasing the size of the map at this point would be counter-productive: it would push the two legends further apart from each other, and it would add more "useless" space on the map, if you know what I mean.

Also, sorry all italians, but Italy really isn't central to the theme of the map... it's more of a "filler" country on this map.

I'm interested to hear other opinions on the matter though.

Well it feels odd, its a strange crop for a map and there's a few other maps that are the same way with me. And its not just Italy, its that tip of the Ottoman Empire in Europe... however, Turkey being cut up doesn't seem to bother me.

I think it looks strange because it looks rushed. I mean, Turkey is fine because its not a main part of the map and its cropped rather nicely in the corner there. That looks fine. But Italy and the bit of European Ottoman Empire looks... weird... It looks like you didn't plan the image right.

[The Bison King]

Italy really isn't central to the theme of the map... it's more of a "filler" country on this map.

it would add more "useless" space on the map

I'm still on Natty's side with this one

[ender516]

Italy really isn't central to the theme of the map... it's more of a "filler" country on this map.

it would add more "useless" space on the map

I'm still on Natty's side with this one

So am I. Stretching the height of the map may just mean more scrolling for some users. However, if people insist on seeing the tip of the "boot", maybe the solution is distort the Italian peninsula a bit by compressing the Rome territory so that the bottom of the boot is pulled north until it is entirely visible, without changing the height of the map at all.

[porkenbeans]

Italy really isn't central to the theme of the map... it's more of a "filler" country on this map.

it would add more "useless" space on the map

I'm still on Natty's side with this one

So am I. Stretching the height of the map may just mean more scrolling for some users. However, if people insist on seeing the tip of the "boot", maybe the solution is distort the Italian peninsula a bit by compressing the Rome territory so that the bottom of the boot is pulled north until it is entirely visible, without changing the height of the map at all.

Yes and you can do it in a way that would not be noticeable.

[RedBaron0]

Eh..... I don't see a problem with not seeing the end of Italy. The theme is the Orient Express which is through Central Europe, Italy is Southern Europe. It's a fresh look of Europe... you don't need Spain, Russia, England, etc, to be in Europe.

[natty dread]

Do I need to set up a poll for this?

[natty dread]

Added river gradient:

Click image to enlarge.

[porkenbeans]

The rivers look much better.

About the Boot topic. If you are concerned about having to scroll, you can move the bottom legend to the top. This puts the attack buttons closer to the play area, and would help to reduce the scroll factor.

[natty dread]

About the Boot topic. If you are concerned about having to scroll, you can move the bottom legend to the top.

Ah, but that would seriously screw the visual balance of the image...

Glad you like the rivers though.

[natty dread]

Updated small image

Click image to enlarge.

[cairnswk]

natty...an offering of some elements i would attend to if it were my map.

1. I don't see an issue with the boot of italy. it's not needed in this map, and top of Denmark and Scandanavia and the UK etc. are not included anyways.

2. But what is happening with the bottom of Greece, the bit under Thessalonica, shouldn't that be orange also.

3. Yes the rivers look much better, and the coloured borders.

4. Some of the city names are too close to the actual army circles, and are not totally legible: Bordeaux, Valina, Bucharest, Belgrade, Berlin, Thessalonica

5. I think you need unify the look of the map using the same style borders around the legend. My preferance for the period is the one used top right.

6. The trains ( and i am a big train buff) - they don't sit right for the Orient Express Theme. The one bottom left feels OK, like it is getting there. But the title train, italy-greece train, and the monopoly train just don't fit within the orient express theme, and the whole lot together looks like a hodge-podge of unsuitable imagery. Sorry to be so blunt. Remember that poster on page one of this thread...now that screams Orient Express

7. Top right legend....Land Monopoly needs to go at the top...it's a title. you have room to pull that left border of the legend out so that it can fit in and move East Prussia left also, then move the regions down to fit the desription under the title.

8. The M on Steam in title....just isn't working for me....it looks like like some other letters have got squished in there and there is a t squished on the end.

9. Natty Dread 2010 needs to be centered under title

10. The bottom legend needs a lot of work. Too much interline spacing that is irregular. Extract the monopoly train, and move those three sections so they are about equal, you've got plenty of room there to do something more comfortable with that.

Hope this helps. but i think graphically you could do a lot more to make this "come together"

[natty dread]

Thanks cairns. I'll try to address those concerns asap...

[ender516]

I do prefer legends, titles and other non-playable elements at the top of the map to reduce scrolling, as porkenbeans suggested. I don't know that the balance would be ruined by such a move.

I think the problem that cairnswk is seeing in the title is due to the colon at the end of "Age of Steam:". Although you wouldn't normally put a space between the word and the colon, you might want to do it here to keep the letter m clearer.

[natty dread]

I do prefer legends, titles and other non-playable elements at the top of the map to reduce scrolling, as porkenbeans suggested. I don't know that the balance would be ruined by such a move.

Let me try to explain this... an image is in balance or "harmony" when there are elements of equal intensity in all directions, balancing each other. In this case we have the playable area which needs to be the main focus of the image. Thus it has a high contrast to the non-playable area, but this will also cause the image to clash unless the other elements which need to be noticeable (ie. also in contrast with the less-important areas) are in balance. Thus the main playable area needs to be central to the image, with the other elements (title, legends) sprinkled evenly around it to "support" it from all sides. Current composition achieves this: the playable area in the middle, title & legend at upper left & right, and another legend at the bottom, creating a sort of "frame" for the playable area.

Now if both of the legends and the title ie. all other elements were pushed to the top then they would be weighing down, pushing down the main focus of the image, competing for attention, making the composition of the image horrible.

[ender516]

Well, right now, it seems a little bottom heavy, but I can't see a reasonable way to move part of the lower legend elsewhere, and it's your artwork, so let it be.

[natty dread]

Ok sorry for the delay cairnswk I'll respond properly to your post now...

1. I don't see an issue with the boot of italy. it's not needed in this map, and top of Denmark and Scandanavia and the UK etc. are not included anyways.

agreed

2. But what is happening with the bottom of Greece, the bit under Thessalonica, shouldn't that be orange also.

According to the map I used as source that part of greece was not under Ottoman control at the time. I don't know, the map might be wrong... if so I can fix it.

4. Some of the city names are too close to the actual army circles, and are not totally legible: Bordeaux, Valina, Bucharest, Belgrade, Berlin, Thessalonica

will try to fix this

5. I think you need unify the look of the map using the same style borders around the legend. My preferance for the period is the one used top right.

I kinda like the ones in the lower legend... I think I'll use those.

6. The trains ( and i am a big train buff) - they don't sit right for the Orient Express Theme. The one bottom left feels OK, like it is getting there. But the title train, italy-greece train, and the monopoly train just don't fit within the orient express theme, and the whole lot together looks like a hodge-podge of unsuitable imagery. Sorry to be so blunt. Remember that poster on page one of this thread...now that screams Orient Express

I agree to an extent. I think I've went a bit overboard with the trains... I'll probably remove half of the trains, and redo the title.

7. Top right legend....Land Monopoly needs to go at the top...it's a title. you have room to pull that left border of the legend out so that it can fit in and move East Prussia left also, then move the regions down to fit the desription under the title.

You have a point but I think I'll settle with reordering the words a bit...

8. The M on Steam in title....just isn't working for me....it looks like like some other letters have got squished in there and there is a t squished on the end.

9. Natty Dread 2010 needs to be centered under title

Will see to these when I redo the title

10. The bottom legend needs a lot of work. Too much interline spacing that is irregular. Extract the monopoly train, and move those three sections so they are about equal, you've got plenty of room there to do something more comfortable with that.

I see what you mean, I'll look into it.

Hope this helps. but i think graphically you could do a lot more to make this "come together"

Thanks for your advice cairns. I hope you'll like the next update which will hopefully be ready in a day or two.

Well, right now, it seems a little bottom heavy, but I can't see a reasonable way to move part of the lower legend elsewhere, and it's your artwork, so let it be.

Roger that

[natty dread]

changes, changes... lots of changes made.

v18

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

Now that looks better!! Can we please get this moved into FF?? Looking forward to playing this hopefully soon Natty!!