ZawBanjito wrote:Sorry, madeinchinain85, I respect what you're trying to do but I have to say that I think this is a terrible terrible idea. Well, maybe it's not, but you've gotten off to a bad start with this holding issue. Holding is not an illegal move. There is a very specific and entirely available way to avoid it and that is to play sequential games. You aren't "accusing" Darklord001 of being anything but annoying. That is to say you are insulting him (her?), and further proposing to form a long and sustained list of players other people "accuse" of being annoying. You note that Darklord001 hasn't defended himself. Why the heck should he? What would it prove? What would it accomplish? Why should he justify this lynch mob?
Holding is legal, I'm not debating that fact. But if you ask the average CC member, I bet that a good portion of them find the tactic distasteful. As for your solution, why should players change their style of play when they can avoid the offenders altogether. And in fact I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Other people are accusing him of using the tactic of holding which they find annoying. And Darklord doesn't have to defend himself for using such a tactic, however he could say that they where lying, then that could change people's preceptions. In either case I will try to provide all aspects of the the accuse and relevent game link and let the reader decided the important things; did he do it and do I want to play with a player that does that. I'd also like to point out again that this isn't just about holding. It's also not a list that says "DON'T PLAY WITH THIS PERSON." It is a list more like "Things This Person Has Done in the Past That Annoyed Other People." I will not be making the decision to say what is poor etiqueitte and what is proper etiqueitte. I will include all complaints as long as they are reasonable ("they are swearing": reasonable complaint, "they pop their bubble gum while playing": unreasonable unless they are sitting right next to the person). For example in the case of Darklord, people who read this list (or are glancing at it while looking for a game) will probably avoid him if they don't like "holders", people who don't care may join and not be annoyed for days that he's holding. It's a win-win situation, the people who don't like holders have just avoided a holder and Darklord won't have to deal with their complaints during the game.
If this works out like you want this thread will likely become 100+ pages of he-said-she-said with a long list at the top reading like, "A says B holds. B defended himself and accused A of breaking a treaty. A defended herself." What will we learn from this? Indeed, the very fact that you want to make it non-biased will render it useless since etiquette is a totally bias-based issue.
This is EXACTLY what I want to do. I want to provide alot of information, but try to summerize it in an organized and accessable list. I would provide a non-bias summery as best as I can, link to the original complaint, link to the response of the complaint (if any), and link to the game in question. I will say right now that I expect EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of CC (including myself) to make the list in one form or another as time goes by (at least, if the list gets popular). Everyone does something that someone else will find distasteful. I will not say if what they did was right or wrong. That is up to the reader to decide, I just intend to supply the means for them to come to their own conclusion. This list isn't supposed to be memorized, but rather as a supplement for the reader when joining games. That way they can judge if the games they join are with the type of people that they want to play with.
Broken treaties also seems like a bad idea to get into. In my experience those who make treaties and make treaties well make them so that they have an out, which is why so many people refuse treaties and actively despise the concept of alliances. If they AREN'T good at making treaties it's even easier to break them, since most people don't go further than, "Hey you, peace between Africa/S. America, k?" How many turns? Any conditions? If I attack you from N. America is the treaty broken? etc. etc.
True, but again I will not provide a stance on who was right or wrong in the treaty category. I will provide a summery and relavent links, it is up to the reader to take a look at the complaint, deffense, and the game and judge for himself if that player is trustworthy enough to form a nonagression pack or even alliance with. When dealing with people it's good to know what kind of person they are, and this list will hopefully provide that.
I wish I could be more constructive than this but I can't see how an idea with this basis could be improved. In fact I halfway feel that you should immediately apologize to Darklord001, but I don't really know the dude so that's up to you.
On the contrary, you've been very constructive. I know now that my choice of words may have been a bit too "aggressive" and was a bit too unclear in someplaces which I intend to correct sometime soon. I don't agree with you in that I owe an apology to Darklord. I never once complained about him directly or about his tactics. I personally find holding as unsportsman like (but I play sequential), but it is legal, and until Lack does something about it there's not much anyone can do except brush it off or avoid those players. I know it looks pretty bad with him being the only one up there for the time being and I do apologize for that, but this list has to start somewhere.
