ConquerCraft Map (StarCraft Inspired)

[Dai_atan]

Note: Just a note to say that due to the TOFU wars the next draft keeps getting delayed.

12/5/10:

Click image to enlarge.

Second Update in as many days, to start the updated version of the map:

Click image to enlarge.

Added Base-Color-Coded Wire Territory Connections, BCCWTC If I need to say it again .
Added Central Platform (Again with out platform textures, i'll add those last so I know how detailed it needs to go and also because All fine detail work I'll be doing to the larger version of the map)
Removed the Key at the bottom, I have plans about making it fit perfectly.
Addded tentative "Drop Zones" on the central platform.
Added "Ore" recognition discs to let players know which territories are ORE, hopefully delicately enough that it doesn't hurt the look of the army placement.
Added first Base Recognition Disc to REDHQ along with Text.
Base territories will be named as follows
[COLOR]/[COLOR Int.][SPECIAL] EG REDHQ, RLAB, RREF
[col Int.]# EG R1, R2
[col Int.][SPECIAL Int.]# EG. RO1, RO2 (in full: Red Ore 1, Red Ore 2 etc)

Space territories will simply be:
S# (S1, S2, S3 etc)
exception of Base Gates (the space side 10 starting Killer nuetral] which will simply be:
[COLOR]GATE.

All suggestions and comments welcome



11/5/10:

So I was watching some of the proleagues and I was thinking about how the classic SC maps all had the space platforms with a simple star background, really reminded me of the entire feel of the game so I figured it might be worth doing and spent the next few hours making a backdrop which i knew I was only going to end up covering up with low graphic platforms i then spent an additional 40 mins adding in that yellow black hazard tape.
I am up to a preliminary stage where I have just placed the army circles to give myself an idea of the feel, this is just initial of course as I have not got the middle platform or the Tech tree's in yet, not to mention territory names, base color coding, special territory marking (ore, HQ, Lab, Ref etc)
but I figure it gives a nice feel of how the map looks in space and how it changes up if I use Cable/Wire territory connection instead of actual border lines. I've got to say it gives me a lot more space to play around with.

It also made me realize this: This map is BIG, way bigger than i intended, what with all the in base territories, the space territories, the central platform and tech tree territories which i havnt even gotten to yet.

My feeling however is it isn't designed to play as if it were too big, as a player is going to be spending his time either in base working on res/tech or going straight for another base or the center.
To help encourage this however I thought I'd use the concept of space as a way of helping me in that all space territories are Neutral Killers. I had already intended to do this for the bases "Gates" but I figure I may as well attribute it to all of space in one nice hit to encourage players to stick to the platforms but still have the maneuverability they will need when the game gets going.

Click image to enlarge.

before 11/5/10:

Base Concept Version 1.03:

This is a basic version of what a players base would look like.

Click image to enlarge.

The Theme is a Starcraft/RTS style game, with resources and a Tech Tree, I went through a whole load of tech trees until I decided KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) was the way to go so as you can see there is just the one tech tree through the lab and the resource multiplier that is the Refinery.

Obviously each player starts off at an HQ

Like any RTS I have tried to show how Resources are a key to gameplay giving them a heafty expense to mine (10 neutrals on them to start) and 3 troop (autodeployed) yeild.
I've made 3 entries into a "base"
the first is the front entrance which has a "Gate" that resets to 10 neutrals every turn making it a nifty defensive device.
Then there is the two "back Doors" which allow an opponent to sneak in for resource harassment.
These 2 back doors also make a player have to decide whether to get those extra ore bonuses or leave them neutral for a little extra protection.
The Tech tree provides those extra mid to late game advantages,
The Drop Ships allowing one to sally out of their base with out having to break their own defenses. (and if in Fog, take a peek at whats happening outside their base with out being seen)
And the nuke, an expensive one off chance to bombard all of your opponents Resources.

Ultimately my hope is this map will allow for a wide variation of strategies and "builds" resulting in a thrilling game experience.

The map itself needs work I Know.

[natty dread]

Check out research & conquer in the gameplay workshop.

[Dai_atan]

Nice Map. Mines still quite different. A much smaller and different tech tree.
His Tech tree is mostly about troop bonuses where mine seperates abilities from Resources.

IE His is more Comand and Conquer Mine is more Star Craft :$
(initially I was going to do different races but then decided against it)

His is a very good map and very RTS, I guess I'll need to work on mine and its title to show how it diverges xD

[Industrial Helix]

I'd like to see the graphics develop some. The balls and holes are scaring me from ever playing this map and the contrasty colors hurt my eyes.

But CC has a lot of room for good rts maps and it will be interesting to see how this develops. Keep in mind that for a map like this, graphics are going to go a long way in conveying the setting and theme of it all, like R&C has the whole steampunk thing going on.

[Dai_atan]

This map is just the draft template only not intended for actual use... I made it in paint. This isnt the finished product just a map to show the gameplay via a simple grid system to help me map out how everything will hopefully all fit together.
I do all the Legion Banners/Signatures atm using GIMP So i'll be the first person to admit the graphics are horrible the reason I gave it any texture or colors at all is to help people to understand the map (and also because they are tiles I only had to do each type of tile once and then copy/paste)

[Industrial Helix]

Well, maps made in paint can't be accepted nor advanced. So for future reference, post your map with solid graphics. I'm looking forward to your next draft!

[Dai_atan]

I Thought This was the Map Ideas section, All I'm doing is putting forward my map idea for opinion, I don't want to waste my time on hard core graphics if the idea isn't well liked.

As I said before this is the IDEA of the map. not the map itself.

[Industrial Helix]

I Thought This was the Map Ideas section, All I'm doing is putting forward my map idea for opinion, I don't want to waste my time on hard core graphics if the idea isn't well liked.

As I said before this is the IDEA of the map. not the map itself.

Sorry about that, I don't mean to turn you off from the idea or anything. Everyone has their own method I guess.

Still looking forward to the next draft!

[MarshalNey]

This is the kind of misunderstanding that I've tried to suggest is a serious problem with the way the Melting Pot works- it's portrayed to the CC community as an "idea lab" where people are free to come and brainstorm. However, once they post something, they (sometimes) get politely chided for having bad graphics or even no graphics... even though the "Graphics Workshop" forum is separate.

I know however that graphics are part of a requirement for advancement of a map at any stage, and that the Foundry mods want assurances that there will be some decent graphical ability backing up the map concept- which isn't unreasonable.

I'll also admit that some ideas are pretty half-hearted one-liners, but this looks like something that took more than a couple minutes to whip up, so maybe the idea can be considered on its merits before asking for a deeper commitment.

-----------------------------

Anyway, Dai, Industrial Helix is a good guy (if you didn't already know), I think he might just be having trouble unravelling what the gameplay is like from your sample map. The map does need several looks before I get the sense of it.

Being a hard-core StarCraft player back in the day, I have to say I think this is a decent attempt, by having a "safe" resource area to represent the initial build phase in every SC game. I'm not sure however what the +10 autodeploy on the HQ is supposed to represent from the SC game.

Actually, what always drew me to SC were the 3 significantly different races that were nevertheless well-balanced against each other- Terrans, Zerg and Protoss. If you could find a way to provide 4 different but balanced types of HQ "abilities" for the starting points, that might give this map some unique qualities that differ from the Research & Conquer map.

Anyway, I think it's good that you've got a small and simple research tree; I'm not sure that Nukes are worthwhile at the moment...

For legibility, I think you'll be better off getting rid of the colored borders and just using some simple bold lines and arrows to indicate imapassibles and one-way attacks. The map looks a little too open, SC maps always had a great deal of terrain.

I say keep at it

P.S. Putting the starting neutral values on the territory itself is a wonderful idea- far better than learning it as you stumble into them during play

[Industrial Helix]

Well, yeah... what Marshall said. I can't read this map as it is and I'm trying to say that perhaps the draft with better graphics would have been better to post as it would be more clear.

Alos, something else I noticed... you need to be able to accommodate 8 players which, presuming I'm reading right, this map only accommodates 6. Good thing you made but a draft image

[Dai_atan]

All good IH I was just worried you didn't understand what I was trying to do here and was just trying to clarify

I need to accommodate for 8? Fuedal is one of my favourites and thats only 6 :p
8's fine, but it's going to get jam packed.

This format seemed really easy for me to understand but maybe I think differently to you guys because I made it, I'll be sure to do a mock up with graphics you'll both understand ;P

Thanks a lot for all the input Mashalney (nice name, I think alot of people blame you for Waterloo, You NEVER advance Cavalry with out Infantry support )

I'll try to discuss 1 by 1.

Being a hard-core StarCraft player back in the day, I have to say I think this is a decent attempt, by having a "safe" resource area to represent the initial build phase in every SC game. I'm not sure however what the +10 autodeploy on the HQ is supposed to represent from the SC game.

Actually, what always drew me to SC were the 3 significantly different races that were nevertheless well-balanced against each other- Terrans, Zerg and Protoss. If you could find a way to provide 4 different but balanced types of HQ "abilities" for the starting points, that might give this map some unique qualities that differ from the Research & Conquer map.

The reason I decided it was too dangerous to try have different races is that I didn't think that even with a year worth of nerfing I'd be able to make it a truly balanced game, I instead decided that the gameplay would allow for the different styles, whether Tech Heavy like the Toss, Turtle play like the Terrans or the aggressive fast expand like the Zerg I think this map allows for those attributes to be portrayed with out too much worry about balance being effected.
The 10 auto deploy on the HQ is supposed to allow for Zerg Style players to get a move on from turn 1 with out being in danger of losing their initial units and then being handicapped in their game play while they wait slowly to build up the 3 units a turn it would take them to continue on. So while it doesn't "represent" anything specific, it does enable SC Style game play.

So unless you mean like having a tech tree accessible from the HQ that allows you to access a specific races tech tree (but only one? how'd you do that )
I don't know exactly how you'd do it and keep it balanced.

Anyway, I think it's good that you've got a small and simple research tree; I'm not sure that Nukes are worthwhile at the moment....

Nukes are definitely late game, the idea is that it is too costly in the early stages to get your nuke, just like in SC, but once the game gets on and your opponent has expanded to have 2 bases.
Thats 10 "minerals" (30 auto deployed) and with 2 stacking refineries that means a player is getting 40 deployable. In one turn your nuke that costs 50 is allowing you the chance to stop a 2 base player from getting 70 their next turn, it also has the advantage in a fog game of showing you EXACTLY where your opponent is.
and then again what if a player has 3 bases? You'll be glad to be able to nuke that turn I'd bet

P.S. Putting the starting neutral values on the territory itself is a wonderful idea- far better than learning it as you stumble into them during play

That is a feature I hope to keep though it will be difficult.
I put it there for the same reason you like it, ive had so many moments playing games like new world or the likes for the first time and my friends refuse to play it unless its fog. so I end up getting whooped around the first 10 games because of those darn Nueutals.

[MarshalNey]

I need to accommodate for 8? Fuedal is one of my favourites and thats only 6 :p
8's fine, but it's going to get jam packed.

Feudal War was created before the Foundry started requiring all maps to accomodate 8 players. It's a "legacy" piece. It's also partly why Feudal Epic came about.

[Dai_atan]

Oh I gathered, DW I'll look into fixing it up.
I've done a little mock up of how I'm considering doing the territories so they have all their vital information but still have the standard borders.

[jcstriker]

love the gameplay, looks like this gonna be a fun map, once the graphics are improved outta paint then i reackon itl look great, keep goin at it Dai i think ur onto a winner here

[TaCktiX]

Holy crap a StarCraft map! As an avid fan of practically everything SC STILL (I play it on occasion, even with things like Crysis and GTA IV on my computer), I must applaud you for managing to take the concept and transfer it to CC. So stick with it.

As the chief developer of That Other RTS Map (I swear to all who read this, I am LOADED and haven't had that much time to work on Version 4, but I'm getting there!), I also think that it's more than different enough not to cross wires with R&C and instead both maps enhance each other, and the potential genre of maps we can help create.

As for your draft preview just above, the starting neutral will not be required strictly speaking. Nix it, as you need more space to put in territory names and types (why not go with territory name denoting its type? I use the "M" convention in R&C to denote a mine in the homelands). As it stands, naming is way too small for me to see anything without getting much closer to my computer screen.

Now get that next draft!

[Evil DIMwit]

Having 8 players would be another way to differentiate this map from Research & Conquer. I recommend you go that way.

[natty dread]

You will need to be able to make everything legible in both large and small versions... maximum size for the small version is 630x600.

[Dai_atan]

Natty, I will, I promise as I play on a small screen and only use small maps myself
Tacktix i'll go through your post bit by bit

Postby TaCktiX on 04 May 2010 15:05
Holy crap a StarCraft map! As an avid fan of practically everything SC STILL (I play it on occasion, even with things like Crysis and GTA IV on my computer), I must applaud you for managing to take the concept and transfer it to CC. So stick with it.

I am glad to see plenty of starcraft fans around here, I'll try to keep true to both softcore lovers and hardcore alike, one modification I am looking to add to the game is to have regions to seperate the "plains" area named after the Koreans.

Flash Falls
Bisu Swamps
Jaedong Valley
etc. dont know how well you know the Proleagues xD.

As the chief developer of That Other RTS Map (I swear to all who read this, I am LOADED and haven't had that much time to work on Version 4, but I'm getting there!), I also think that it's more than different enough not to cross wires with R&C and instead both maps enhance each other, and the potential genre of maps we can help create.

Exactly, I'd Think you could class us along with the AoR series, or the likes except fielding Tech Trees and hopefully what will be seen as the large variance in game play.

As for your draft preview just above, the starting neutral will not be required strictly speaking. Nix it, as you need more space to put in territory names and types (why not go with territory name denoting its type? I use the "M" convention in R&C to denote a mine in the homelands). As it stands, naming is way too small for me to see anything without getting much closer to my computer screen.

Now get that next draft!

I've decided to only put the SN/RN on the territories it will really effect them.
I want players to really understand the difference and the importance of them otherwise players will wind up with a stack on the RN territories and be completely peeved to find out they lost their stack to neutrals.

Am working out the new lay out and terrain atm will take me awhile to get it perfect and then I'll be adding in semi acceptable graphics so people don't get annoyed :p

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THE SUPPORT! xD!

[edocsil]

Looks like potential, I will love to see the better graphics when they come out.

The map seems a bit open, maybe you could add some walls or crevasses around the map as well as some around the dropships. Then a one way arrow could indicate the attack out of the drop.

Just my thoughts for now, I will check back in on this map later.

[Dai_atan]

working on fixing the "openness" amongst other things, check first page for full update

Click image to enlarge.

[b00kw0rm]

This new version looks a whole lot like Zombie Invasion without the zombies.

[Dai_atan]

I can only assume you mean the lay out is similar what with the compass point bases.

While Originally I wanted to steer clear of this, when fitting in 8 bases it is the only effective way of doing it space wise. Apart from that I see no similarity since his are houses (that are bonuses) and mine is space platforms IN SPACE lol.

The game mechanics are also entirely different.

Click image to enlarge.

^ Latest version, updated on main page.

Currently considering getting rid of most of the space territories leading to the back doors and making it so only neighboring bases can attack each others back doors making it so that the front entrances actually get used and therefore increasing the importance of the Gates.

[edocsil]

How the front gate works isn't real clear. I would agree on making it more Important as well. I would like to see some minerals on the middle island as well as a vespene (sp?) vent. Idk exactly what tech the gas would unlock but, somthing along the same lines of what you have.

[army of nobunaga]

i wont lie dude... this is rough. and it looks like 90% of the rough maps that ppl eventually give up on. But I see some promise in it. I see where you are trying to go.

CC has a pretty high graphical standard on maps.. this could work with the right imagery, but it will take a lot ,more work.

[Dai_atan]

i wont lie dude... this is rough. and it looks like 90% of the rough maps that ppl eventually give up on. But I see some promise in it. I see where you are trying to go.

CC has a pretty high graphical standard on maps.. this could work with the right imagery, but it will take a lot ,more work.

of course it's rough It hasn't any graphics yet (As some one who does a lot of graphical work I can tell you that the pretty imagery is the last thing you do so as to save yourself a lot of time), the only things I've added are A) a space background (which I'm still not happy with but space graphics are not my forte) and B) Hazard strips on the edge of the platform which was more for my own entertainment than anything.

No offence AoN but it isn't encouraging to tell people there is a 90% chance they are going to give up, it sounds like you're telling me that I should just pack it in now Wheres the constructive support!?

just going to spell this out for everyone right now:
PLEASE DON'T POST ABOUT GRAPHICS YET, I WILL BE DOING THAT AT THE END, WHAT I AM INTERESTED IN ATM IS GAME PLAY AND THE CONCEPT!

How the front gate works isn't real clear. I would agree on making it more Important as well. I would like to see some minerals on the middle island as well as a vespene (sp?) vent. Idk exactly what tech the gas would unlock but, somthing along the same lines of what you have

Ok so the front gate is a killer neutral, just like the nuclear launch in Arms Race, if you take it, then the next turn it resets to 10 neutrals. (in arms race its 15)

I have decided I'm definitely changing it so you can only access the adjacent back doors, your support on that just boosts that opinion thanks!

The Middle Island will have Ore definitely, it will also be cheaper (5 nuetrals to start instead of 10) to encourage players to try go for them.

I thought of having a vespene resource as well but decided rather than have it gain on its own it needed to be more of a boost toward the ore which is what the Refinery is. the refinery gives you +2 or +3 to your deployable army for every Ore you own. I don't think I'll be including a refinery in the middle of the map though.

Click image to enlarge.