Nordic Countries [Quenched]

[natty dread]

Thanks for your comments. I'll try to address each point...

May I suggest a change in colour for each country? Turn Sweden yellow, Denmark red, Norway more strongly blue and Finland white. These are colours that the countries have in their national flags.

Flag colours were tried some time in the past. It looked fugly.

The idea was to go for cold colours, to give the map an "arctic" feel.

1) The river impassible is very hard to see and some of the mid area beveling looks like a river. If there is only one river based on the smaller legend, then you need to find another way to separate the smaller bonus areas. I don't have a current suggestion but a slight change in texture is something I'd try first.

Which beveling looks like river? I could try adjusting the bevel, perhaps a smaller & less opaque beveling might work. As for the actual river, I could try making it wider, but I fear this wouldn't look too good...

2) Due to placement of text, I can't tell if Askerhus is attached to Bohuslan. I would assum they are but I can't tell.

How is this not apparent? They are next to each other, there are no impassables between them. I can try to move the texts around a bit. There's not a lot of room though.

3) The dark blue text at the top (2 lines) and on the west (1 line) is on top of dark blue water and difficult to see

It doesn't matter, the same information is written in the top right corner.

4) I am not a fan of outlining in a fuzzy color, I'd rather have a full color for the countries. Unless the grey in the middle of each bonus area means something.

It represents snow... well, kinda. It's actually white but the texture makes it look a bit grey. It is there to make the bonus areas easy to tell from each other, while using the same colour for each country. If I used full colours, you could only tell where bonus areas end by the beveling, and if I need to adjust the bevel it will be even harder (impossible even). Then again if I use different colours for each bonus region, it would be hard for someone who doesn't know the geography of the area to know which country is which (and this must be known because the countries give a higher bonus if held alltogether).

If you have a solution for this dilemma I'm willing to give it a try, but it better not involve huge walls of text...

[natty dread]

So how's this?

Click image to enlarge.

ps. no one has commented on the mountains yet. New vs. old?

[Gillipig]

So how's this?

Click image to enlarge.

ps. no one has commented on the mountains yet. New vs. old?

How come Copenhagen has 3 adjacent starting positions while Oslo only has 1!? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have 2 start pos around Oslo and 2 around Copenhagen ?

I don't like the new mountain chain style you've added, kinda makes them look as high as Mount Everest ! Since the mountainpeaks really aren't that high in scandinavia I would suggest that you lower the peaks a little.

[natty dread]

How come Copenhagen has 3 adjacent starting positions while Oslo only has 1!? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have 2 start pos around Oslo and 2 around Copenhagen ?

gameplay discussion is over. see the gp stamp?

Anyway: the starting positions are only there to give every player an equal chance to grab a capital in the start. The map starts with a random drop, ie. the capitals are the only territories that start neutral.

I don't like the new mountain chain style you've added, kinda makes them look as high as Mount Everest ! Since the mountainpeaks really aren't that high in scandinavia I would suggest that you lower the peaks a little.

I dislike flat mountains... And for the love of gob, stop confusing realism with risk boards! In the real world, the capital cities aren't shaped as shields either. The river between finland & sweden isn't 50 kilometers wide, etc. etc.

Ah, I'm sorry. I'm a bit cranky, had some bad dice today... I'll see what I can do with the mountains. I don't want to make them too flat though, I want them to be clearly recognizable as mountains, while at the same time fitting with the visual style of the rest of the map.

[Gillipig]

How come Copenhagen has 3 adjacent starting positions while Oslo only has 1!? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have 2 start pos around Oslo and 2 around Copenhagen ?

gameplay discussion is over. see the gp stamp?

Anyway: the starting positions are only there to give every player an equal chance to grab a capital in the start. The map starts with a random drop, ie. the capitals are the only territories that start neutral.

I don't like the new mountain chain style you've added, kinda makes them look as high as Mount Everest ! Since the mountainpeaks really aren't that high in scandinavia I would suggest that you lower the peaks a little.

I dislike flat mountains... And for the love of gob, stop confusing realism with risk boards! In the real world, the capital cities aren't shaped as shields either. The river between finland & sweden isn't 50 kilometers wide, etc. etc.

Ah, I'm sorry. I'm a bit cranky, had some bad dice today... I'll see what I can do with the mountains. I don't want to make them too flat though, I want them to be clearly recognizable as mountains, while at the same time fitting with the visual style of the rest of the map.

Haha it seems like I always keep coming back to reality whenever I try to improve this map (not that it really needs much improvement though).

As much as I understand that a CC map can't be authentic to reality I think that it adds to the gaming experience if the map is highly similar to the real world. I mean you could add a little island called Atlantis in the middle of the baltic sea if you wanted to, or remove Norway altogether from the map and still say it's alright because this is a map not reality ! But that wouldn't be very fun. So of course reality is an important factor when you create a map of an area that exists in real life, but when it comes to smaller details that most people won't even know if they're based on something in real life or not then I agree with you! If reality is in the way for gaming experience then screw reality , however I don't see how making the mountains look realistic would lower the gaming experience. I wanna try to give you as much input as I can because I know I'll be playing this map a lot in the future and I would hate to been given the chance to affect the outcome without doing so.

[natty dread]

Hey, it's cool. I'm working on a new mountain version. I'll try to get it finished by today...

[Industrial Helix]

Natty, nice job on all the work you've put into this map so far and congrats on the gameplay stamp.

But the graphically speaking, I'd like to see some major changes. The bevel is way too strong and I'd rather see some sort of paper or grungy texture over the single filter you've using right now. The way it is now just feels too plasticy. The colors are a bit strong in terms of saturation and brightness, personally, I'd prefer more realistic shades of the colors you're using. Pixelaton is a problem for most of the water bordering areas.

You've done a great job so far, I think CC is finally going to get its Scandinavian area map. Keep up the good work!

[natty dread]

Natty, nice job on all the work you've put into this map so far and congrats on the gameplay stamp.

Thanks.

But the graphically speaking, I'd like to see some major changes. The bevel is way too strong

Did you see the last version, not yet posted on the 1st page? A couple of posts back? The bevel is a bit lighter on that one.

I kinda like the bevel to be strong on the coastlines, it gives the land some depth... making it less flat. If you can tell me a better way to accomplish this though, I'm all fingers...

and I'd rather see some sort of paper or grungy texture over the single filter you've using right now.

I actually have two texture layers overlaid on top of each other, but meh. Paper texture, eh? I'm not so sure it would fit the map. I've also tried several grunge textures and they've all looked crappy so far.

If you want to suggest a texture for me to try, you're welcome to do so.

The colors are a bit strong in terms of saturation and brightness, personally, I'd prefer more realistic shades of the colors you're using.

Ok. But do you like the colour scheme otherwise? Should I swap some colours to others?

You know, I think one of the texture layers is making the colours look brighter than they actually should be. I think I might have left it on colour burn, when I was trying different blend modes...

Pixelaton is a problem for most of the water bordering areas.

To be honest, I don't see it. Can you point out to me where this pixelation occurs? Using the latest version (a few posts back)...

You've done a great job so far, I think CC is finally going to get its Scandinavian area map. Keep up the good work!

Thanks. That means a lot coming from you, I really like your maps. I've learned lots of things on mapmaking watching you work on 13 colonies & the unification maps

[Gillipig]

How about framing the whole map with a light brown colour to give the feeling of wooden material? After all there's a lot of forest in these countries!

[natty dread]

How about framing the whole map with a light brown colour to give the feeling of wooden material? After all there's a lot of forest in these countries!

I'm not sure it can be done. Width-wise, there's room to spare, but the height is already at the maximum 800 pixels.

[natty dread]

Well, here's a try with the mountains. They didn't quite turn out as well as I hoped... I might have to do them again from scratch.

I didn't put any other changes on this yet... I'll look into the colours and textures next.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Here's a shot at a different texture. It's a picture of frozen ground actually. It might work? Only, it doesn't really get along with the bevels, but that can be tweaked if people really like this texture.

Also, saturation for the colour layer was reduced by 30%.

v.40:

Click image to enlarge.

(I also went back to the previous mountains. They'll have to stay until I can come up with something better. Anyway, I think it's better to nail the texture & colours first and then make the mountains to match them)

[Gillipig]

Here's a shot at a different texture. It's a picture of frozen ground actually. It might work? Only, it doesn't really get along with the bevels, but that can be tweaked if people really like this texture.

Also, saturation for the colour layer was reduced by 30%.

v.40:

Click image to enlarge.

(I also went back to the previous mountains. They'll have to stay until I can come up with something better. Anyway, I think it's better to nail the texture & colours first and then make the mountains to match them)

I can't speak for everyone but I like the new look! It gives the map an even colder outlook, and if that's the goal then this is an improvement !
Like you said it's not perfectly synked but I'm sure you know better than I do how to fix that !

[ender516]

I like the new texture. As far as the mountains go, my only thought is that I like to see them blend into the ground they are on, rather than have a sharp edge, which makes them look pasted on top.

[natty dread]

I can't speak for everyone but I like the new look! It gives the map an even colder outlook, and if that's the goal then this is an improvement !

I like the new texture.

I was trying other textures just now: I tried marble, grunge maps, paper, stone, both in black&white, in colour, in multiply, overlay or colour burn, and nothing looked right. So if this texture works for you guys, then I'll go with it.

As far as the mountains go, my only thought is that I like to see them blend into the ground they are on, rather than have a sharp edge, which makes them look pasted on top.

Yes, well... I'm still working on the mountains.
I think I'll use the mountain image from the very first mountains, shrink it a bit, and apply the method I used on the new mountains, while trying to keep the lines to the minimum. Let's see what we'll get...

Thanks for the feedback, both of you.

[captainwalrus]

I like the new texture a bit more now, but I still hate the huge bevel. Reduce it a ton, or get rid of it.

[skeletonboy]

I think the new texture looks a lot better than the previous one.

[natty dread]

How's this?

Click image to enlarge.

edit. just saw your post, cw. Which bevel are you referring to: the one between the bonus areas, or the one on the coastlines?

[natty dread]

Ok, some adjustments...

- bevel adjusted.
- texture adjusted (smoothed a bit).
- tried to fix some of the pixelation.
- mountains adjusted somewhat.

Click image to enlarge.

[captainwalrus]

bevel is better, it could be reduced more, but it is still good. I will comment on other things more later.

[RjBeals]

the map is looking tight natty. My only suggestion now would be to differentiate the bonus regions a bit more. Sure the legend splits them out, but people will no doubt miss a bonus, and come whining back to you.

Also - the mountains and tree borders look great.

[natty dread]

bevel is better, it could be reduced more, but it is still good. I will comment on other things more later.

the map is looking tight natty. My only suggestion now would be to differentiate the bonus regions a bit more.

Thanks beals & cw. Here's the dilemma... The bevel is (part of) what separates the bonus areas, and people have been asking me to lighten the bevel... Now if you have any handy solutions to this problem, I'm all ears.

On another note: when should I start working on the small version? Should it be done here in graphics shop or in the FF? I should probably get all the major graphics tweaks done before starting work on it, right?

[natty dread]

Well here's another try. I adjusted the hue of a few bonus areas ever-so-slightly to help differentiating them. And played with the bevels again. Can you believe I have 5 layers of bevels on this map?

Click image to enlarge.

Also, I installed the smudge tool for paint.net. It really improved the mountains IMO. The difference might not be very noticeable, but I think it works.

[RjBeals]

looks good to me.

[natty dread]

Thanks beals. I also made another variant, where the hue is the same but the colour is darker on those bonus zones...

here it is, now to decide which one is better.

Click image to enlarge.