THOTA vs. TSM (41-39) of 80 -- THOTA Prevails! [FINAL]

[firstholliday]

, arrogant and insulting, but how could a monki know any better....lets move on then............

[General Mojo]

Lad - Just wanted to throw this out there because it seems relevant to your current situation. At least you guys know that there are some honorable people out there on CC that care more about an even game than gaining a competitive advantage....

Game 2584263

Also, you left the following comment on my wall:

Played a triples against this honorable man, my partner missed a turn when cc went down and instead of taking advantage like most he missed his turn to make it even. Still got our asses kicked lol. Thought id mention hes one of the rare good people by laddida
on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:32 pm

Hope this helps, mate!

I meant every word that was amazing for you guys to do that for us. I almost forgot about that game i knew there was a team game out there where it happened i forgot i was a part of it hahah. You didnt have to do it you still won too lol.

Yep, even after you guys dropped SA as a bonus, too. That whole game was pretty ridiculous if memory serves me right.

Its just sad that some people take the "win at all costs" mentality and miss out on the bigger picture . . .

[laddida]

Lad - Just wanted to throw this out there because it seems relevant to your current situation. At least you guys know that there are some honorable people out there on CC that care more about an even game than gaining a competitive advantage....

Game 2584263

Also, you left the following comment on my wall:

Played a triples against this honorable man, my partner missed a turn when cc went down and instead of taking advantage like most he missed his turn to make it even. Still got our asses kicked lol. Thought id mention hes one of the rare good people by laddida
on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:32 pm

Hope this helps, mate!

I meant every word that was amazing for you guys to do that for us. I almost forgot about that game i knew there was a team game out there where it happened i forgot i was a part of it hahah. You didnt have to do it you still won too lol.

Yep, even after you guys dropped SA as a bonus, too. That whole game was pretty ridiculous if memory serves me right.

Its just sad that some people take the "win at all costs" mentality and miss out on the bigger picture . . .

Well a gesture like this is rare not everybody will do this. Its above and beyond its takin that extra step that is not needed. It gains mad respect but it is not needed to gain respect either. They did the right thing there was no wrong doing its an important game of course i wouldnt expect anything less. I know all of them in that game are great guys and i do not have any less respect for them cause they had nothing to do with it its no way near fair to them.

[General Mojo]

Lad - Just wanted to throw this out there because it seems relevant to your current situation. At least you guys know that there are some honorable people out there on CC that care more about an even game than gaining a competitive advantage....

Game 2584263

Also, you left the following comment on my wall:

Played a triples against this honorable man, my partner missed a turn when cc went down and instead of taking advantage like most he missed his turn to make it even. Still got our asses kicked lol. Thought id mention hes one of the rare good people by laddida
on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:32 pm

Hope this helps, mate!

I meant every word that was amazing for you guys to do that for us. I almost forgot about that game i knew there was a team game out there where it happened i forgot i was a part of it hahah. You didnt have to do it you still won too lol.

Yep, even after you guys dropped SA as a bonus, too. That whole game was pretty ridiculous if memory serves me right.

Its just sad that some people take the "win at all costs" mentality and miss out on the bigger picture . . .

Well a gesture like this is rare not everybody will do this. Its above and beyond its takin that extra step that is not needed. It gains mad respect but it is not needed to gain respect either. They did the right thing there was no wrong doing its an important game of course i wouldnt expect anything less. I know all of them in that game are great guys and i do not have any less respect for them cause they had nothing to do with it its no way near fair to them.

Fair enough, but its situations like these that expose people for who they truly are. It is fairly evident from the game that something unfortunate happened during Skillful's turn which upset the competitive balance of the game. For me, it is a no brainer to do what you can to remedy the competitive balance, because taking advantage of another team's misfortune ruins an otherwise healthy competitive game environment. But hey, thats just me.

For what its worth, I am certainly not surprised that the team you guys are playing failed to act as we did under similar circumstances . . . its pretty consistent with their reputation and temperament.

[laddida]

General i wouldnt judge anybody for this they are good people they shouldnt be judged for taking their next turn. LIke i said before its is not fair to them if it was an error on our part or cc. I hope we can all agree that this game counts no matter what conclucsion comes from the mods cause if we win just to find out it is going to replayed or vise versa is not fair to either team. And all this can stop (except for first and nik of course they will keep baiting each other till the last post to see who wins).

[General Mojo]

General i wouldnt judge anybody for this they are good people they shouldnt be judged for taking their next turn. LIke i said before its is not fair to them if it was an error on our part or cc. I hope we can all agree that this game counts no matter what conclucsion comes from the mods cause if we win just to find out it is going to replayed or vise versa is not fair to either team. And all this can stop (except for first and nik of course they will keep baiting each other till the last post to see who wins).

I am not judging anyone or saying that anyone is right or wrong in how they handle it. I am just saying (1) that I would have handled it differently (as evidenced by the game I posted) and (2) that I am not surprised with the way they handled it.

[Incandenza]

Fair enough, but its situations like these that expose people for who they truly are. It is fairly evident from the game that something unfortunate happened during Skillful's turn which upset the competitive balance of the game. For me, it is a no brainer to do what you can to remedy the competitive balance, because taking advantage of another team's misfortune ruins an otherwise healthy competitive game environment. But hey, thats just me.

For what its worth, I am certainly not surprised that the team you guys are playing failed to act as we did under similar circumstances . . . its pretty consistent with their reputation and temperament.

Excuse me? Who the f*ck are you to come in here and spout holier-than-thou homilies like your shit doesn't stink? First off, this doesn't concern you in the slightest. Second, "fairly evident" is such a waffling phrase as to be meaningless. Yeah, something happened to skill's turn. People are in the process of trying to find out what that was.

Guess what, it's entirely possible that this was user error, if not skill than another monki. Until that possibility is eliminated, then the horsemen in the game proceeded exactly as they should. It's not our responsibility if the other team screws up. If it was a site issue, then that's a different story. But there is no concrete evidence of anything one way or the other. If you're too thick to understand that, then I guess that's just your lot in life.

The Monkis (by and large) have been handling this like adults. But you had to blow into the thread and straight-up accuse my clanmates and friends of, what, cheating? Bad sportsmanship? With completely unsubstantiated inferences about their "reputation" and "temperament", no less. Tell you what, pal, hatch, comic, and BW are three of the most stand-up guys you're going to find on this site. For you to suggest otherwise is in error. So until you know ALL the facts of the case, then I would kindly advise you to shut the f*ck up and let the adults here sort things out. The fucking nerve of some people.

[Fruitcake]

ooops...looks like a raw nerve there Mojo.

[General Mojo]

Fair enough, but its situations like these that expose people for who they truly are. It is fairly evident from the game that something unfortunate happened during Skillful's turn which upset the competitive balance of the game. For me, it is a no brainer to do what you can to remedy the competitive balance, because taking advantage of another team's misfortune ruins an otherwise healthy competitive game environment. But hey, thats just me.

For what its worth, I am certainly not surprised that the team you guys are playing failed to act as we did under similar circumstances . . . its pretty consistent with their reputation and temperament.

Excuse me? Who the f*ck are you to come in here and spout holier-than-thou homilies like your shit doesn't stink? First off, this doesn't concern you in the slightest. Second, "fairly evident" is such a waffling phrase as to be meaningless. Yeah, something happened to skill's turn. People are in the process of trying to find out what that was.

Guess what, it's entirely possible that this was user error, if not skill than another monki. Until that possibility is eliminated, then the horsemen in the game proceeded exactly as they should. It's not our responsibility if the other team screws up. If it was a site issue, then that's a different story. But there is no concrete evidence of anything one way or the other. If you're too thick to understand that, then I guess that's just your lot in life.

The Monkis (by and large) have been handling this like adults. But you had to blow into the thread and straight-up accuse my clanmates and friends of, what, cheating? Bad sportsmanship? With completely unsubstantiated inferences about their "reputation" and "temperament", no less. Tell you what, pal, hatch, comic, and BW are three of the most stand-up guys you're going to find on this site. For you to suggest otherwise is in error. So until you know ALL the facts of the case, then I would kindly advise you to shut the f*ck up and let the adults here sort things out. The fucking nerve of some people.

I wasn't judging anyone or calling out any of your members in particular. I was simply commenting that THOTA cares a lot about winning and being perceived as the best clan CC has ever known, which is evidenced by these circumstances. Regardless of what evidence you dig up, it is clearly obvious that a mistake was made since the guy didn't even deploy his troops. In that situation, I do not wait to allocate blame (as clearly a mistake occurred), but rather I am having myself or one of my teammates do the same to maintain the competitive balance of the game. If you disagree, which you clearly do, then so be it....we'll agree to disagree.

Sorry for posting in your precious thread (which is open to the public btw). I will "shut the f*ck up" now.

[khazalid]

quite right too, the circumstance as well as the situation were entirely different. i have seen that happen in several games when there is a genuine fault - and we have given no evidence to suggest that we will not agree to replay the game if indeed this proves to be the case.

we do not want to win at any price. it comes as no surprise to find people sniping from the sidelines once again though.

there is actually precedent to this too: THOTA vs LOW - i have not the desire to actually find the game in question - a bug was evidenced and the game replayed/rebalanced. i wonder where you were then, general? it is, after all, a public thread.


let the discussion and ill-advised comments end here until the e-ticket is returned and posted. - this applies to all sides

[General Mojo]

quite right too, the circumstance as well as the situation were entirely different. i have seen that happen in several games when there is a genuine fault - and we have given no evidence to suggest that we will not agree to replay the game if indeed this proves to be the case.

we do not want to win at any price. it comes as no surprise to find people sniping from the sidelines once again though.

there is actually precedent to this too: THOTA vs LOW - i have not the desire to actually find the game in question - a bug was evidenced and the game replayed/rebalanced. i wonder where you were then, general? it is, after all, a public thread.


let the discussion and ill-advised comments end here until the e-ticket is returned and posted. - this applies to all sides

Fair enough. Was just trying to provide some perspective having found myself in similar circumstances. Good luck to both sides in resolving your issues.

[Chao]

Be civil, people...

nik & first, you guys aren't getting anywhere with your baiting...

As for GM:

Fair enough, but its situations like these that expose people for who they truly are.

What are you trying to accomplish with that statement? (Or what point are you trying to get across?) It sounds like a bait to me...

It is fairly evident from the game that something unfortunate happened during Skillful's turn which upset the competitive balance of the game...it is clearly obvious that a mistake was made since the guy didn't even deploy his troops...

Agreed, but...

For me, it is a no brainer to do what you can to remedy the competitive balance, because taking advantage of another team's misfortune ruins an otherwise healthy competitive game environment.

So Mojo, you are saying if skill or any other monki logged on accidentally started the turn without realizing it, and logged off, they deserve a replay? (Not saying that actually happened; just a hypothetical scenario).

So if skill had misclicked and it had resulted in an obvious misdeployment, should THOTA compensate them for that?

If skill had attacked a teammate (and the move was clearly unintentional, should the next THOTA player attack a teammate as well?

Not trying to be patronizing... I just want to hear your opinion is all.

[General Mojo]

Be civil, people...

nik & first, you guys aren't getting anywhere with your baiting...

As for GM:

Fair enough, but its situations like these that expose people for who they truly are.

What are you trying to accomplish with that statement? (Or what point are you trying to get across?) It sounds like a bait to me...

It is fairly evident from the game that something unfortunate happened during Skillful's turn which upset the competitive balance of the game...it is clearly obvious that a mistake was made since the guy didn't even deploy his troops...

Agreed, but...

For me, it is a no brainer to do what you can to remedy the competitive balance, because taking advantage of another team's misfortune ruins an otherwise healthy competitive game environment.

So Mojo, you are saying if skill or any other monki logged on accidentally started the turn without realizing it, and logged off, they deserve a replay? (Not saying that actually happened; just a hypothetical scenario).

So if skill had misclicked and it had resulted in an obvious misdeployment, should THOTA compensate them for that?

If skill had attacked a teammate (and the move was clearly unintentional, should the next THOTA player attack a teammate as well?

Not trying to be patronizing... I just want to hear your opinion is all.

I understand your point about creating a slippery slope, and it is valid. For me personally, I would cut it off at about this line (the turn timing out and the player not even getting a chance to deploy his or her armies). In that circumstance, I or one of my teammates would do the same thing so that we don't get a three troop advantage. As for misdeployments and or mistaken assaults, I think these happen too often and don't affect the game as much (i.e. you still got your troops on the map, still can attack from other regions, still get your fort, etc.). To me, a turn timing out is rare enough and drastic enough to warrant a comparable response from the other side to even things back up.

As for my comment exposing people for who they really are, it goes to the point that in the grand scheme of life this is an online risk game. Winning certainly isn't everything, and shouldn't trump preserving the competitive balance of a game.

[Chao]

I understand your point about creating a slippery slope, and it is valid. For me personally, I would cut it off at about this line (the turn timing out and the player not even getting a chance to deploy his or her armies).

Okay, so people 'draw the line' at different places. Fair enough.

As for misdeployments and or mistaken assaults, I think these...don't affect the game as much.

I completely disagree. I can understand a scenario where accidentally deploying to a territory adjacent to the intended one has little effect on the game, but that's not the only case. What happens if, say, I deploy, I auto-attack, but click the wrong territory. I lose 10 armies and my teammate also loses 10 armies. Clearly, that would significantly affect the game. I know that it is a very unlikely scenario, but would that warrant compensation from the other team?

To me, a turn timing out is rare enough and drastic enough to warrant a comparable response from the other side to even things back up.

If missing three armies is considered drastic (and I agree that it is significant, especially for the game in question), you must agree that accidentally hitting a teammate can also be as drastic. (Or if you disagree, feel free to correct me.)

Secondly, I don't see how the frequency of the event should affect the response. Would your response to this scenario be the same if 'run-out-of-time' errors occurred as often as misdeployments and mis-attacks?

Winning certainly isn't everything, and shouldn't trump preserving the competitive balance of a game.

If you truly believe this, why no compensation for misdeployments and mis-attacks? They certainly ruin competitive balance, in my opinion.

[skillfull]

Whar do you mean with that Nicola? IT is at least insulting what you said man
"arrogant and insulting, but how could a monki know any better" I want you to take it back NOW.
I am the guy who had that fucked up turn, I am the one who has to apologize to every monki and say what happened without even knowing what in the hell had happened.Why are you so pissed off? If you are so angry how angry I should be man?

I have said from the first time that I repsect all the thota players and I have faced them in games before that clan war without any problem
I said LOUDLY in the game chat that I DON'T suspect any of the thota players,and this is MY/and my clanmates problems(but most of all it's mine ,cause it happened on my account)
SO , take it back and dont insult my clanmates because of your fight with firsty
sk-

EDIT : I say move on, COUNT the game nomatter what the mods say. I don't care anymore.End of discussion, the game is in action and both of the teams can win.We count it and cc life goes on
I apologise if I sound very offfensive but this is how i feel now

[jpcloet]

I will see if I can find out what happened to help clear this up.

[the.killing.44]

I meant every word that was amazing for you guys to do that for us. I almost forgot about that game i knew there was a team game out there where it happened i forgot i was a part of it hahah. You didnt have to do it you still won too lol.

Yep, even after you guys dropped SA as a bonus, too. That whole game was pretty ridiculous if memory serves me right.

Its just sad that some people take the "win at all costs" mentality and miss out on the bigger picture . . .

Well a gesture like this is rare not everybody will do this. Its above and beyond its takin that extra step that is not needed. It gains mad respect but it is not needed to gain respect either. They did the right thing there was no wrong doing its an important game of course i wouldnt expect anything less. I know all of them in that game are great guys and i do not have any less respect for them cause they had nothing to do with it its no way near fair to them.

Fair enough, but its situations like these that expose people for who they truly are. It is fairly evident from the game that something unfortunate happened during Skillful's turn which upset the competitive balance of the game. For me, it is a no brainer to do what you can to remedy the competitive balance, because taking advantage of another team's misfortune ruins an otherwise healthy competitive game environment. But hey, thats just me.

For what its worth, I am certainly not surprised that the team you guys are playing failed to act as we did under similar circumstances . . . its pretty consistent with their reputation and temperament.

I hope your self esteem went up, because I'm not sure what other good your trolling is doing. I mean, holy f*ck: " I am certainly not surprised that the team you guys are playing failed to act as we did under similar circumstances." You must be a real saint, eh.

I had to take out your middle quote displaying your holy excellency in your move, and the wall post that was so necessary to post. Shame, that. Holy shit…

[General Mojo]

Chao - You bring up valid points and I am sure we could keep going back and forth regarding the merits of different solutions. Under the circumstances you bring up, if the other team brought up the mistake in the game chat and sought a remedy, I certainly would be open to suggestions. I think we can agree that a fair resolution would necessarily depend on the circumstances.

Killing - not sure why my posting would be considered any more "trolling" than your brilliant analysis of my comments. I simply brought up a similar situation where myself and my teammates swiftly and equitably negotiated a solution to preserve the competitive balance of the game.

I also commented that it is disappointing to see that THOTA has not acted similarly. I think sometimes this whole clan competition thing gets carried away to the point where people miss out on the big picture.

Thank you for your helpful and productive feedback, though.

[the.killing.44]

Killing - not sure why my posting would be considered any more "trolling" than your brilliant analysis of my comments. I simply brought up a similar situation where myself and my teammates swiftly and equitably negotiated a solution to preserve the competitive balance of the game.

Why? Because who gives a shit. You came in just as the heat between nikola and first was quieting down, and inserted your self-absorbed "oh, since my team and I did it under wholly different circumstances, if someone else doesn't, in a competitive challenge it "expos[es] people for who they truly are." It's now been said repeatedly that the arguments should die down until the e-ticket is replied to, and you just pop in here with your "oh my, we're saints" game link, quote the wall post, and say, "oh, I'm just trying to compare situations." You're judging people.

[General Mojo]

Killing - not sure why my posting would be considered any more "trolling" than your brilliant analysis of my comments. I simply brought up a similar situation where myself and my teammates swiftly and equitably negotiated a solution to preserve the competitive balance of the game.

Why? Because who gives a shit. You came in just as the heat between nikola and first was quieting down, and inserted your self-absorbed "oh, since my team and I did it under wholly different circumstances, if someone else doesn't, in a competitive challenge it "expos[es] people for who they truly are." It's now been said repeatedly that the arguments should die down until the e-ticket is replied to, and you just pop in here with your "oh my, we're saints" game link, quote the wall post, and say, "oh, I'm just trying to compare situations." You're judging people.

I believe it was Blitz and Seul who were discussing whether anyone would ever do something to remedy the competitive balance of a game. Because we did in circumstances similar to one at issue here, and a game involving TSM members no less, I thought it was relevant.

You obviously disagree. I apologize for upsetting you.

[nikola_milicki]

Lad - Just wanted to throw this out there because it seems relevant to your current situation. At least you guys know that there are some honorable people out there on CC that care more about an even game than gaining a competitive advantage....

Game 2584263

Also, you left the following comment on my wall:

Played a triples against this honorable man, my partner missed a turn when cc went down and instead of taking advantage like most he missed his turn to make it even. Still got our asses kicked lol. Thought id mention hes one of the rare good people by laddida
on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:32 pm

Hope this helps, mate!

for a guy who is all about playing in healthy competitive environment, it sure took u long enough to finally miss a turn, only 4 rounds

u guys managed to brake their bonus in that time?

[larsin]

Can you explain this Nikola ; arrogant and insulting, but how could a monki know any better...

[Chao]

I think we can agree that a fair resolution would necessarily depend on the circumstances.

You're absolutely right; you'll get no argument from me on that point. Our differences lie at where we draw that line.

However, this does not explain the contradiction between

Winning certainly isn't everything, and shouldn't trump preserving the competitive balance of a game.

and

As for misdeployments and or mistaken assaults, I think these happen too often and don't affect the game as much...

I've already said that mistaken deployments/mistaken assaults can ruin competitive balance. You can't deny that... but you still maintain a distinction between running out of time and misclicking. It seems that if the situation were minor, you wouldn't provide compensation. (Like the case of deployment to a territory adjacent to the intended target.) Now, that situation disrupts "competitive balance", although not by much. So it seems to me like the magnitude of the disruption of competitive balance affects your response to it... so that brings me to the next point... How do you determine the magnitude of the disruption?

And you haven't answered my question about the frequency of the event and the response.

Yes, I'm nit-picky.

[nikola_milicki]

Whar do you mean with that Nicola? IT is at least insulting what you said man
"arrogant and insulting, but how could a monki know any better" I want you to take it back NOW.
I am the guy who had that fucked up turn, I am the one who has to apologize to every monki and say what happened without even knowing what in the hell had happened.Why are you so pissed off? If you are so angry how angry I should be man?

I have said from the first time that I repsect all the thota players and I have faced them in games before that clan war without any problem
I said LOUDLY in the game chat that I DON'T suspect any of the thota players,and this is MY/and my clanmates problems(but most of all it's mine ,cause it happened on my account)
SO , take it back and dont insult my clanmates because of your fight with firsty
sk-

EDIT : I say move on, COUNT the game nomatter what the mods say. I don't care anymore.End of discussion, the game is in action and both of the teams can win.We count it and cc life goes on
I apologise if I sound very offfensive but this is how i feel now

I do not wanna write it again why was I pissed cuz as long as Im concerned, first and I are done here

and u got it all wrong there mate, I aint really insulting monkis, first part was just a little bit serious for first alone and the second part mixed it together as a joke, Im pretty sure first got it, so yes it was just a joke, Id never insult the whole clan

[the.killing.44]

Killing - not sure why my posting would be considered any more "trolling" than your brilliant analysis of my comments. I simply brought up a similar situation where myself and my teammates swiftly and equitably negotiated a solution to preserve the competitive balance of the game.

Why? Because who gives a shit. You came in just as the heat between nikola and first was quieting down, and inserted your self-absorbed "oh, since my team and I did it under wholly different circumstances, if someone else doesn't, in a competitive challenge it "expos[es] people for who they truly are." It's now been said repeatedly that the arguments should die down until the e-ticket is replied to, and you just pop in here with your "oh my, we're saints" game link, quote the wall post, and say, "oh, I'm just trying to compare situations." You're judging people.

I believe it was Blitz and Seul who were discussing whether anyone would ever do something to remedy the competitive balance of a game. Because we did in circumstances similar to one at issue here, and a game involving TSM members no less, I thought it was relevant.

You obviously disagree. I apologize for upsetting you.

It's not the content that was the problem, it was your attitude and the other things you brought on besides an example to the discussion about what the other team would do. Though untimely, your link was relevant. However, what was wildly irrelevant and just obnoxious was the quoted wall post and your comments after the fact. I mean, judging people? Claiming it shows "people for who they truly are?" You're telling me this is adding to the discussion? Get over it, you're being an irritating twat who is just interjecting evidence to his personal sainthood.