What is your opinion on the foundy?

[porkenbeans]

Look. Here's the thing. The main purpose of the foundry is to make maps that the general CC community will like and have fun playing. So if the vast majority of people like a change, making that change will make a map that better suits the purpose of the foundry. While you in no way have to make the changes, you aren't going to get a map quenched if you disregard a huge majority on a major stiking point.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. It does not say that in the guide. Again, WHY NOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ?

[captainwalrus]

Look. Here's the thing. The main purpose of the foundry is to make maps that the general CC community will like and have fun playing. So if the vast majority of people like a change, making that change will make a map that better suits the purpose of the foundry. While you in no way have to make the changes, you aren't going to get a map quenched if you disregard a huge majority on a major stiking point.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. It does not say that in the guide. Again, WHY NOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ?

I guess becacause it has never really been a problem...?

[oaktown]

The guide, map guidelines, etc. were all written months/years ago by multiple people in bits and pieces. I'll be the first to say that they are out of date and incomplete. If somebody doesn't like the current guides they should take a stab at writing a new one. I don't think there's anybody here telling people they can't do extra work on their own time if it's for the good of the Foundry. But even a perfect guide is not going to satisfy the perpetually discontent.

[porkenbeans]

Look. Here's the thing. The main purpose of the foundry is to make maps that the general CC community will like and have fun playing. So if the vast majority of people like a change, making that change will make a map that better suits the purpose of the foundry. While you in no way have to make the changes, you aren't going to get a map quenched if you disregard a huge majority on a major stiking point.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. It does not say that in the guide. Again, WHY NOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ?

I guess becacause it has never really been a problem...?

I do not see your name on any maps. So, how would you even know ?

[captainwalrus]

Look. Here's the thing. The main purpose of the foundry is to make maps that the general CC community will like and have fun playing. So if the vast majority of people like a change, making that change will make a map that better suits the purpose of the foundry. While you in no way have to make the changes, you aren't going to get a map quenched if you disregard a huge majority on a major stiking point.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. It does not say that in the guide. Again, WHY NOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ?

I guess becacause it has never really been a problem...?

I do not see your name on any maps. So, how would you even know ?

Umm, that was kinda rude. And
a) A lot of the problems you seem to have, are relitivly recent.
b) Just because I am not making the maps, doesn't mean that I haven't been commenting on maps and such. For the most part, if enough people want something big, it is changed.
c) notice the implying that I am not claiming that that is the real official answer.

[WidowMakers]

Howdy all,

Since this post was not specifically started to discuss changes in the foundry, I started a new thread over here
What would you do/suggest to improve the Foundry?

Where we can all post ideas to improve the foundry. Hopefully it can be a better, more concentrated place to bounce ideas back and forth and make some better headway to improving the way we all do things.

Thanks
Wm

[porkenbeans]

Look. Here's the thing. The main purpose of the foundry is to make maps that the general CC community will like and have fun playing. So if the vast majority of people like a change, making that change will make a map that better suits the purpose of the foundry. While you in no way have to make the changes, you aren't going to get a map quenched if you disregard a huge majority on a major stiking point.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. It does not say that in the guide. Again, WHY NOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ?

I guess becacause it has never really been a problem...?

I do not see your name on any maps. So, how would you even know ?

Umm, that was kinda rude. And
a) A lot of the problems you seem to have, are relitivly recent.
b) Just because I am not making the maps, doesn't mean that I haven't been commenting on maps and such. For the most part, if enough people want something big, it is changed.
c) notice the implying that I am not claiming that that is the real official answer.

I am sorry, but I was trying to make a point. You have not had to deal with the receiving part of the thing we call feedback. So, of course you would not fully understand or be aware of it being a problem or not.

[mibi]

I think it is good that the foundry guidelines are not 100% detailed and clear. It allows for some wiggle room. Otherwise you will have some jack ass meet all the technical requirements and start yelling "move my map to the next level, for I have satisfied all the technical requirements stated in the Foundry by laws, section 18.5 subsection 4, and if you don't move map map you are in violation of rule 395 of the foundry bylaws, section A-5, paragraph 4."

i hate those people.

unwritten rules are incredibly efficient.

[Raskholnikov]

They are called lawyers. THAT system is incredibly efficient, fair, and objective. THIS system is subjective, and open to the interpretation of those who control the stamps. Which leads only to arguments, conflicts, feelings of being treated unfairly and gradual alienation of some of the best map-makers.

A clear distinction should be made between objective and subjective criteria of map=mapking. The objective criteria (clarity, game-playing, color-blindness friendliness, etc) should be met by all maps.

Subjective criteria (theme, artistic direction, etc) should remain untimately within the control of the map maker. The duty to take advice and reply to comments should remain, but if all objective criteria are clearly met, disagreement on subjective criteria should not retard or preclude moving the map to the next stage.

The beta stage should be used more extensively as a testing ground. At this moment, only game-play is really tested. Players should comment also on artistic direction and theme. After a decent interval, depending on how many players played the map in beta and the feedback received, the map should either go back to be revised in the Foundry or be quenched.

This is the only way to reconcile both the Foundry criteria of quality, the criticism and feedback process, the creative autonomy of the map maker - by means of the democratic decision-mnaking process of the majority of CC players giving their verdict at the beta stage.

The CC Map making guidelines should be amended accordingly, to accurately reflect this process.

[porkenbeans]

I think it is good that the foundry guidelines are not 100% detailed and clear. It allows for some wiggle room. Otherwise you will have some jack ass meet all the technical requirements and start yelling "move my map to the next level, for I have satisfied all the technical requirements stated in the Foundry by laws, section 18.5 subsection 4, and if you don't move map map you are in violation of rule 395 of the foundry bylaws, section A-5, paragraph 4."

i hate those people.

unwritten rules are incredibly efficient.

Are you serious ?

[Raskholnikov]

Ah, Pork.... you can repy to this without going into the personal. Mibi stated his opinion. I disagree with it. You're free to do so too. But the use of words like scared and nonsensical are not conducive to a pleasant exchange of views. We'll be back in no time in flame wars for no reason at all. So please amend that post, take out unnecessary personal innuendos and just let him know, objectively, why you don't agree. Remember, if we want him to keep the discussion polite, we must not give any excuse for having conversations like this degenerate again into totally counter-productive shouting matches resulting in mod involvment and general freak-out. Thanks.

[Captain_Scarlet]

I have found comments made regarding maps sometimes petty and unconstructive and certainly there is not enough respect shown to players who are willing to make this contribution; unfortunately often by a want-to-be map maker.

[gimil]

I have found comments made regarding maps sometimes petty and unconstructive and certainly there is not enough respect shown to players who are willing to make this contribution; unfortunately often by a want-to-be map maker.

What do you mean by a want to be map maker captain scarlet?

[captainwalrus]

I am sorry, but I was trying to make a point. You have not had to deal with the receiving part of the thing we call feedback. So, of course you would not fully understand or be aware of it being a problem or not.

Well for the most part you are right, but neither have you. My furthest map that I actually managed the thread was still in the drafting room, and none of yours have gotten past there either. The only map I had that actually got a draft stamp, I had my brother (el-president) submit and such, for various reasons.

[captainwalrus]

I think it is good that the foundry guidelines are not 100% detailed and clear. It allows for some wiggle room. Otherwise you will have some jack ass meet all the technical requirements and start yelling "move my map to the next level, for I have satisfied all the technical requirements stated in the Foundry by laws, section 18.5 subsection 4, and if you don't move map map you are in violation of rule 395 of the foundry bylaws, section A-5, paragraph 4."

i hate those people.

unwritten rules are incredibly efficient.

You sound a bit scarred mibi. Are you serious ?
That is just about the most nonsensical statement that I have ever heard.

Not really, I completely agree with his statement. The unwritten rules have been working fine, and they are good at stopping bad maps and progressing good ones.

[Captain_Scarlet]

I have found comments made regarding maps sometimes petty and unconstructive and certainly there is not enough respect shown to players who are willing to make this contribution; unfortunately often by a want-to-be map maker.

What do you mean by a want to be map maker captain scarlet?

sorry not to be clear - some comments are by other players who dont have the creative skill, comments to me often echo of jealousy

[AndyDufresne]

While I understand your viewpoint, captain_scarlet, I find it hard to believe that jealousy is driving any criticism. The Foundry is a lot of things, that is for sure, but I'm not sure we've ever really had an epidemic of jealousy (aside from maybe back in the old days when people were chosen for C.A.s---but as you all know now---a majority of people don't want this position at all! )


--Andy

[captainwalrus]

(aside from maybe back in the old days when people were chosen for C.A.s
--Andy

What do you mean?