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kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby ronsizzle on Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:27 pm

if you are going to add it to the list, then that is great.

but recant the warning.

i must disagree as well. let me chalk this up to jr24 being that annoying kid in the front row again.

if you enjoy playing feudal, what else should he do? fucking ridiculous. this is cc's fault for not taking that map off of new recruits views in the first place. he isnt inviting anyone, and anyone is free to join. this makes no sense.

and i dont even like kraphtone! i cant stand him to be honest with you. i detest him. but i do stand for what is right, and this isnt right!
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby lord voldemort on Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:47 pm

As i stated already ron, Im not saying for him to stop playing this map. But he has admitted he knows that mostly new recruits join these games and he continues to take advantage of it. Thats where the problem is
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby Tisha on Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:51 pm

if he is warned for it, then there should be others as well. I don't know why he would be anyways though.. he can't control who joined the games. he has to stop playing the settings he likes because new recruits join?

the map should have been added to the no no list a long time ago...(and if you look back in the thread it was requested that the map be added to the list)
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby BoganGod on Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:03 pm

This complete bullshit. Mods pull your heads out of your collective behinds. Add it to the hard map/restricted map, etc. Don't stop people from playing their preferred settings, prevent noobs from joining difficult maps...... Unfair, shortsighted and just plain stupid ruling.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby prismsaber on Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:04 pm

LOL @ people defending him. Anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass knows why he was making these games.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [pending]

Postby BoganGod on Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:05 pm

AAFitz wrote:well, it actually makes alot of sense, if you want to stop farming new recruits... but I think youve made it fully clear that that was and is your intent. Have fun with it.

As far as swaying people...do you seriously gauge peoples opinion, by the handful of posts in a thread? Anyways, Ive only responded to each of your concerns, and since you were essentially accused of a kind of cheating....again...not real cheating...I felt you deserved responses. The fact that its the most farming since the rule was made is the other reason.

Oh, and sorry about those delay tactics that you foed me for. :roll: Its obvious you are out to play the most fair games out there possible now.


So now the truth comes out. Fitz is pissed off because he is on someones foe.... Hypocrite, not like you fitz. Shame on you.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby lord voldemort on Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:09 pm

BoganGod wrote:This complete bullshit. Mods pull your heads out of your collective behinds. Add it to the hard map/restricted map, etc. Don't stop people from playing their preferred settings, prevent noobs from joining difficult maps...... Unfair, shortsighted and just plain stupid ruling.



Did you actually read my post :roll:
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby BoganGod on Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:19 pm

Yes I read your post. The points you missed 1) why should he stop playing a favorite map because noobs can join the map(he stands a risk of losing more points again noobs than experienced players) 2) He like many others has requested that feudal be added to the list of difficult maps(this has been begged for/requested for well over 6months now) 3) No way this is gross abuse, he is not sending pm's and invites is he? 4) You are worried about new players having a bad experience, why let them play a map they can't understand(yes you say lack is belatedly getting on to it.) WHY ARE THE EXPERIENCES of new players more important than those of people that are into their second yr or greater of playing?
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby alex951 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:23 pm

dont think he should get a warning. yea he knows that the game might attract ? but oh well. if lack is so worried about new recruits having a bad experience why hasn't he block ? from joining fuedals then?
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby jefjef on Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:06 pm

It's good to see that CC is going to add Feudal to the restricted map list BUT that just means they are FINALLY acknowledging that it needs to be.

So why the warning in re of this? IT'S YOUR FAULT.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:53 pm

prismsaber wrote:LOL @ people defending him. Anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass knows why he was making these games.


If that's all the logic that's needed, why the hell is KLOBBER still running free? Sure, he doesn't target explicit noobs, but he sure as hell is violating the intent of the policy, and everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) knows it. There isn't even any question about it, unlike in this case. Yes, yes...the "magical" five games played...a weak excuse if I've ever heard one.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [pending]

Postby owenator on Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:15 pm

lord voldemort wrote:OK,

After a discussion with other mods I have decided to issue Krapt with a warning.
The high % of new recruits is a worry, but mostly the fact that Krapht admits that he knows these games attract new recruits and he contiuues to create the games. We consider this a grose abuse of the game as it creates annoying and unwelcoming gaming atmospheres for the New Recruits involved.
Lack is in the process of adding Feudal to the mpas that new recruits can't play. When that happens I dont know, but he has been again made aware that it is a map used for farming. So he is 'on it'.

lv


Doesn't this decision contradict the decision made against me? http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=94483&p=2170487#p2170487

Postby king achilles on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:52 am
I checked if owenator is a multi with any new recruit and he is cleared. He also has a mixture of opponents.

For a newbie farming case possibility, I think it is no longer surprising that Feudal map is one of those maps that certain people have loved to use and create games from it, which coincidentally, many new recruits actually join. One question to ponder for one's intention is, would you love the map this much if you were not playing with new recruits most of the time?

I will be less strict from now on regarding this newbie farming rule as I do not want to dictate how a player wishes to enjoy the game on this site.

If the accused is the one joining the games and/or we see evidence that he/she is inviting new recruits, then we probably have a case to look at.

Still, if a player has mostly new recruits as his opponents in his collection of games with a specific setting, we might suggest to change your preferred settings from time to time in respect of the newbie farming rule.

If we get reports or comments about certain maps that have been 'abused' because they lure too many new recruits often, who knows, there could be some adjustments to further balance the games out there.


This is why I don't understand some of the decisions made. I've made a relevant point in this thread http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=99640 that relates to my dissatisfaction at the service level and consistency on how some judgments are made. You may as well warn several other Feudal players that have been previously been falsely accused. And you're more than welcome to start with me. Am I a farmer? No. I just love this map a lot. I don't have to explain why I make 4 player games, that's what I pay $25 for - supposedly for my enjoyment. The question is, if CC is seeing a trend whereby they see new recruits joining these maps - why don't they simply block them from playing until they've reached a certain rank? Just like how they cannot join public speed games. Has king achilles also been advised? I think that the wrong decision/judgment was made - even if it was a warning.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby king achilles on Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:56 am

The warning stands. The mere fact that kraphtone knows that new recruits are joining this particular setting so he could 'farm' points from them is an act of abuse of the game. The intent is there. He was creating these games in this setting because he knows new recruits are going to join. You guys know the rule about farming and yet you continue to do what could be perceived as farming. Even if you created these games, the intent was there and you were still systematically targeting new recruits with the knowledge that you have. Yes, we do not have control of who joins the games, but use your common sense. You know what is happening and you continue to do it, plus with the admittance of the person involved, it deserves a warning for the intention and the number of games that was provided.

lackattack wrote:"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the New Recruits are more likely to deadbeat. Some players have been farming extensively - even sending hundreds of PMs to the latest members to get them into their games.

This is a gross abuse of the game. It gives the New Recruit "victims" a poor first experience and reduces the chances of them sticking around. As farmers move up the scoreboard it also harms the competitive nature of Conquer Club - the scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques.


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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby King_Herpes on Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:03 am

Awe come on KA, can't he just farm a little?
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby KraphtOne on Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:13 am

the dumbest thing about this is after i made 50 games or so i posted a thread that says " hey, i get a bunch of new recruits joining these games that i like to play and it's ruining it" and the mods basically said "you can't help who joins your games no way to avoid the new recruits joining, just play and hope they don't"
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby KraphtOne on Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:48 am

sorry but i'm just confused about what i'm supposed to do here...

i want to play games where i have a tactical advantage...

my best map is feudal...

on feudal no matter what drop you have you can still win the game, ei. no such thing as a bad drop...

can't play one versus one... you win a minimal amount of points for a win and can stand to lose alot of points for a loss, basically you need to win over 90% to assure a point gain at all times...

can't play 3 way because everyone gets 2 castles and when one player gets fishy they can take or damage one of your castles and then the game is over...

can't play 5 person because you could get set up in a position where you're right next to someone and you get taken out without them worrying about anyone coming after them for fear of the other 3 players (whose fear is moving too soon)...

can't play 6 man for the same reason as the 3 player game... there is the constant noob factor of someone hitting you and ruining your chances...

can't play terminator because they go after the highest rank...

can't play assassin because people end up killing themselves and another player scoops up the easy win...

4 player singles is the only real way to play... dont have to worry about the noob factor and dont have to worry about the suicide, because if someone does something too early there is only going to be 1 other player in position to reap the benefits (which means he has free reign to come after the suicider) , so most dont even try it...

i don't join games with new recruits, hell i shy away from joining games with low ranked players for the sole purpose that i assumed targeting bad players was farming...

what i've learned though is that it is ok to target bad players, even if the only games you play are games you join against cooks and privates and you win 99% of them...

it is not ok however to open up 4 man feudal games...

even if you tell the mods that there is a bunch of new recruits joining and they should fix it somehow... And then the mods tell you that there is nothing you can do about new recruits joining your games, just deal with it... (apparently later on, they will forget that you said anything and call you a cheater for having new recruits join your game)

so don't worry i wont be starting any more feudal games...

the stats say i'm +1800 or whatever on 4 man feudal settings...

if i pick out any game i'll be fucking +1800

my nuts are +1800...

i'll just stick to what CONQUER CLUB MODS say is ok... and from now on i'll just systematically join and invite games with cooks and privates on freestyle settings...

and trust me i'm a good enough player that i'll be +1800 in a week...

and then i'd love to hear the "no that's against the rules also" post from the dipshit mods...

the same mods that completely dismiss johnnyrocket24, demonfork, and king_herpes joining thousands of games with horribly ranked players in order to pad their stats...

~k1
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby jleonnn on Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:27 am

wait a sec... He started all the games, and the noobs joined. I don't think He sent invites or anything, did he?
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby JOHNNYROCKET24 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:44 am

prismsaber wrote:LOL @ people defending him. Anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass knows why he was making these games.

exactly. look through his games. he plays alot of different things but continues to make these games just for the points. hes hiding behind the excuses "its my favorite type" and " I cant help new recruits join 82% of the time".
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby colton24 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:57 am

With that kind of farming kick some points of his into that trash can over there...
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [pending]

Postby AAFitz on Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:37 am

BoganGod wrote:
AAFitz wrote:well, it actually makes alot of sense, if you want to stop farming new recruits... but I think youve made it fully clear that that was and is your intent. Have fun with it.

As far as swaying people...do you seriously gauge peoples opinion, by the handful of posts in a thread? Anyways, Ive only responded to each of your concerns, and since you were essentially accused of a kind of cheating....again...not real cheating...I felt you deserved responses. The fact that its the most farming since the rule was made is the other reason.

Oh, and sorry about those delay tactics that you foed me for. :roll: Its obvious you are out to play the most fair games out there possible now.


So now the truth comes out. Fitz is pissed off because he is on someones foe.... Hypocrite, not like you fitz. Shame on you.


Yes, I have spent this much time on this because kraphtone couldnt handle losing to me and foed me. It had nothing to do with the page of new recruits he was fleecing and taking advantage of the map and settings more than any farmer I have ever seen since the new rules. My posts on CC have always shown me to be vengeful, and unfair. :roll:

However, I only brought up the foe, because he brought up the foe list as my motivation, I never would have even known it, and in fact, had posted my first post before ever knowing it. He seems to have taken the foe list seriously. Ive gotten used to being foed for being faster than one would expect, and take it as the highest of compliments when it happens.
In any case, if it turned out it didnt look like he was breaking the rules, Id have posted as much. Did the fact that he throughout personal insults, affect my posts...possibly, im human, but theres nothing I posted that isnt true and based on fact.

I also posted very early, that he just had to stop doing it, and would only get a warning anyways, and that I hoped feudal would be blocked by new recruits, so he could go on with his favorite settings and map.

I now think its great that feudal is blocked. That kraphtone will be able to play his favorite settings, and that no one can continue to farm on this map, or any other in this manner. Its also great there is no punishment, because its theoretically possible, that he was playing 82% of feudal games with a new recruit, just to get at those other 12% of games, with actual players in them.

Im sure he will continue to set up tons and tons of fuedal games now that new recruits have not joined.

Looks like a win-win scenario for everyone...except maybe the new recruits in those games...but they would have got farmed somewhere anyways....and I for one think they expect a loss when they get here. I think anti-farming is far more about not taking advantage of the scoring system, than winning a game against someone trying out the game. If they cant handle a loss in their first 5 games...they probably wont have fun here anyways. Ive lost over 3000 games myself. Its something you just have to get used to. :D

Glad to see you only got a warning, and that youll get to play your favorite maps and settings when the new recruits get blocked. Youll even get to play better players, kraphT, so you should really be thankful about this thread, I would think. Again, farming isnt really a cheating accusation per-se...its only a matter of timing, and no one in here hasnt farmed in some way or fashion. I sure as hell have, and never deny it.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby prismsaber on Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:45 am

Woodruff wrote:
prismsaber wrote:LOL @ people defending him. Anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass knows why he was making these games.


If that's all the logic that's needed, why the hell is KLOBBER still running free? Sure, he doesn't target explicit noobs, but he sure as hell is violating the intent of the policy, and everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) knows it. There isn't even any question about it, unlike in this case. Yes, yes...the "magical" five games played...a weak excuse if I've ever heard one.


I agree with your premise; that the definition of farming should be expanded.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby AAFitz on Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:58 am

KraphtOne wrote:sorry but i'm just confused about what i'm supposed to do here...

i want to play games where i have a tactical advantage...

my best map is feudal...

...

and then i'd love to hear the "no that's against the rules also" post from the dipshit mods...

the same mods that completely dismiss johnnyrocket24, demonfork, and king_herpes joining thousands of games with horribly ranked players in order to pad their stats...

~k1


Targeting players with at least 5 games finished is not currently against the rules. I myself asked if doing it was illegal and it was not, though there always is the gross abuse of game line that could one day encompass this too...but from every post by every hunter, and Andy... I see no fear of this being an issue soon. To be honest...no one can be disciplined for this, without an explicit change in the rules. For right now, illegal farming is farming of new recruits...not poor or even inexperienced players.

What is against the rules is targeting new recruits, and by setting up games that 82% filled with new recruits, its obvious that was what was happening. If every single one of those players had 5 games under their belt..or even most of them...there would have been no warning, and probably no thread at all.

As far as what you can do...feudal will be blocked from new recruits, and then you can continue to set up many, and will have no fear of being joined by new recruits. It will still be farming to an extent, but not illicit farming, which has been decided to only include new recruits.

For someone calling everyone names from dope, to retard to dipshit, I find it odd how difficult all of this is to understand. This is a case study on farming, and the rules have been posted time and again, and honestly I think its very clear to anyone at this point:

lackattack on Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:07 pm
"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the New Recruits are more likely to deadbeat.

IE: Dont systematically target new recruits, using ANY method, whether indirect, or direct.

Its that simple. Have fun. Im ecstatic that youll be able to play your favorite map and settings soon, with no fear of breaking the rules. This case should never have happened in my opinion. Feudal should have been blocked from new recruits after the other obvious farmers took advantage of it. Though given the number, and the points you won doing it...I do wonder if youd have "loved" feudal as much, if 82% of them didnt have a new recruit in them. Only you know that. However, you should never have had the opportunity to do it yourself. Granted, you could have just not done it too, but that's new recruits under the CC bridge now, isnt it?

Oh, and once again, if you want to play someone with 7000 games, instead of 2, look me up.
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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby KraphtOne on Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:10 am

AAFitz wrote:For someone calling everyone names from dope, to retard to dipshit, I find it odd how difficult all of this is to understand. This is a case study on farming, and the rules have been posted time and again, and honestly I think its very clear to anyone at this point:


If i see something quacking i call it a duck...

And the rules are hardly "posted"

You have to dig through pages of forum threads to find them...

I do think that the way things change here is a positive thing, like the american justice system... when a mod (judge) makes a ruling it becomes a precedent to which future rulings will be refered...

But these rulings need to be posted in the rules section...

Just food for thought...

...now back to farming

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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby AAFitz on Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:19 am

KraphtOne wrote:
AAFitz wrote:For someone calling everyone names from dope, to retard to dipshit, I find it odd how difficult all of this is to understand. This is a case study on farming, and the rules have been posted time and again, and honestly I think its very clear to anyone at this point:


If i see something quacking i call it a duck...

And the rules are hardly "posted"

You have to dig through pages of forum threads to find them...

I do think that the way things change here is a positive thing, like the american justice system... when a mod (judge) makes a ruling it becomes a precedent to which future rulings will be refered...

But these rulings need to be posted in the rules section...

Just food for thought...

...now back to farming

~k1


Well, the duck in this case was someone illegally farming. CC yelled Duck!

As far as the rules being posted. You quoted and seemed to know the other farming cases quite well. I think your claim of ignorance, is somewhat...well...thin.

The reason the rules change, is because people find ways to take advantage of the system, and new rules must change cover them. There are many ways to potentially cheat the system. CC just waits for someone to just stoop low enough before dealing with it. In your case however, what you did was covered 10 months ago, and discussed quite extensively in those threads you quoted.

IN any case, good luck with the farming.

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Re: kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

Postby KraphtOne on Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:25 am

because i started looking it up after i was accused...

you just won't stop picking a fight will ya :0)
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