The HIVE [Quenched]

[WidowMakers]

would you mind trying a thin white line in the middle of the impassable bold black line
I'm still concerned about reading the attack line in such a big map with all coloured troops on it

np. I think it looks bad and actually makes the line harder to see but I will post a draft with it.

[ustus]

if you really want those lines visible above all else, try a bright red or yellow. I'm not sure how that would look graphically, but you'd know where the impassibles are... I almost suggested a vivid blue, but then i'd have HAD to be kidding...

Seriously, though, i'm not sure how well the colored impassibles would work for colorblind users. i'm not one, but i've noticed that one of them tends to comment in every thread at some point, and i think we should make the map accessible to them.

And as i said, i'm not sure how this would work graphically, but i suggested red and yellow because they're the main component colors of the map at this point and i think you could most easily fit those colors into the map.

try it out, you may be able to make the lines more colorful this way, or you may have tried this and it just looks like trash. let me know which it is...

[WidowMakers]

Here is a version that shows several colors. My opinion is the brown or black looks teh best because it goes well with the color palette. The white looks bad and the red and blue look out of place.

I could always have the impassables blink. haha

[Evil DIMwit]

I prefer brown or red. Black looks a little too bold.

[isaiah40]

I think blue or black. Then again go ahead and make them blink!

[pamoa]

to be pedant I would say try with a thin yellow
it is in theme
but then black is the best

[WidowMakers]

to be pedant I would say try with a thin yellow
it is in theme
but then black is the best

I think yellow is too hard to see.

I like black the best since it can be part of any theme.
VERSION 8



Any other suggestions for the GP, borders, etc?
I want to get this GP stamped and GFX stamped before I make the large map. (if possible?)

Thanks
WM

[lt_oddball]

I think blue or black. Then again go ahead and make them blink!

yeah, at first I thought you made the blinking on purpose (permanently).

But it's options...my vote : Blue.
Because the border has to stand out (black, red, green, brown is harmonic with the map..beautiful for painting, but not functional ... white is indeed bad).
(darker) Blue!

[uvace08]

This looks pretty cool but I would suggest using colors that contrast with one another more (ex. red, blue, yellow, green...). While the shades of yellow work well with the "bee" theme, its hard to quickly identify where the higher and lower value sections of the map are.

Would you be interested in helping me develop a map based on U.S. power markets? I work in the power industry and my coworkers and I would love to have a map with a power map with territory values determined by regional generation resources, energy demand, or transmission operator. It may sound lame, but a lot of people would be excited by it, myself included.

[mibi]

This map looks fun. but I am not looking forward to navigating the huge drop down boxes.

[sully800]

This map looks fun. but I am not looking forward to navigating the huge drop down boxes.

Yes, I think maps of this size will only work well with clickable maps.

[mibi]

This map looks fun. but I am not looking forward to navigating the huge drop down boxes.

Yes, I think maps of this size will only work well with clickable maps.

bummer, i hate using clickies.

[ustus]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here to try to get this map moving as fast as possible (I'm impatient to play, and i don't think there's been progress for a couple days... ) and say that i think the bonus numbers look great to me. Anybody else concur? I'd almost consider saying they're too high, but then i considered the cap of ten (EDIT: 15, whoops missed that change) for the territ count and i'd say these are right on.

I think we've concluded that these colors are great, if anyone wants to add anything to that, go for it.

Anyone else got anything to say?

All i have now is QUENCH IT ASAP!!!!!

[killerpit4e]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here to try to get this map moving as fast as possible (I'm impatient to play, and i don't think there's been progress for a couple days... ) and say that i think the bonus numbers look great to me. Anybody else concur? I'd almost consider saying they're too high, but then i considered the cap of ten (EDIT: 15, whoops missed that change) for the territ count and i'd say these are right on.

I think we've concluded that these colors are great, if anyone wants to add anything to that, go for it.

Anyone else got anything to say?

All i have now is QUENCH IT ASAP!!!!!

yea i can not wait till its QUENCHED
first we need to get the game play and grafics stamp then i have to do the xml witch will be rlly fun
one i get done the xml then

[RedBaron0]

Any other suggestions for the GP, borders, etc?
I want to get this GP stamped and GFX stamped before I make the large map. (if possible?)

To earn your graphics stamp you must comply to the following conditions:

1) Image must present itself as clear and legible.
2) Both large and small maps aesthetics must be to a presentable foundry standard and must also satisfy the community at large.
3) Cartographers must, where possible, reduce any disadvantage that can be caused to a colorblind individual.
4) All map makers are expected to take all graphical comments into consideration and must either accepted them or give sound reasoning as to why not to take particular advice.

I like the reddish color better for the impassible, its noticeable and fits into the color scheme, I think. I wouldn't wanna play on this map 1v1, that's for sure LOL, but it offers a lot of options, and will make a good addition to the map collection!

Oh, one other thing, you've got 5 honey storage cells... where's the honey?

[the.killing.44]

The font leaves much to be desired, a fair amount of that invested in the readability of the letters. I like the idea of a pixel font, but something more Charleston-esque would be kinder on the eyes.

[WidowMakers]

The font leaves much to be desired, a fair amount of that invested in the readability of the letters. I like the idea of a pixel font, but something more Charleston-esque would be kinder on the eyes.

The problem is the font needs to be able to be small and readable. Many other fonts can be small but are not readable. Or they are too large and they don't fit.
I will look at the Charleston font and see (just need to call Rj)

Anything else?

WM

[MrBenn]

Personally I thought the brown lines were slightly easier on the eye, even though the black ones are a bit more prominent.

As for the font, there are a number of small bitmap fonts that might be easier on the eye... there are a load listed here that are a bit less blocky, bit still legible at a tiny size: http://www.dafont.com/bitmap.php

I'd be inclined to switch the order of "Honey Storage" and "Min/Max reinforcements" in the legend, as this will keep the two bonus-related instructions together. In fact, I even think the "Min/Max reinforcements" should go left of the "Honeycomb Cluster" bit

While on the subject of the legend, the MIN and MAX have misaligned baselines.

As for gameplay, I can;t see any inherent flaws.. I've yet to run the figures through the bonus-drop calculator, which will give an indication of the likelihood of being dropped a bonus area - as long as there's nothing outrageously high, I can't foresee any major problems.

[WidowMakers]

Personally I thought the brown lines were slightly easier on the eye, even though the black ones are a bit more prominent.

I agree. I might change it back.

As for the font, there are a number of small bitmap fonts that might be easier on the eye... there are a load listed here that are a bit less blocky, bit still legible at a tiny size: http://www.dafont.com/bitmap.php

Thanks. Rj also emailed his Charleston font to me to try.

I'd be inclined to switch the order of "Honey Storage" and "Min/Max reinforcements" in the legend, as this will keep the two bonus-related instructions together. In fact, I even think the "Min/Max reinforcements" should go left of the "Honeycomb Cluster" bit

Good idea

While on the subject of the legend, the MIN and MAX have misaligned baselines.

Good catch

As for gameplay, I can;t see any inherent flaws.. I've yet to run the figures through the bonus-drop calculator, which will give an indication of the likelihood of being dropped a bonus area - as long as there's nothing outrageously high, I can't foresee any major problems.

My thoughts are that at least for teh 1v1 games, I will have starting positions in all of the 3 hex groups to help deliver better, even drops.

WM

[RedBaron0]

Honey comb's big, ya-ya-ya, it's not small, no-no-no. (I had to get it out. )

You've got a couple bees and the comb, I think the map needs some honey accents, a little bit of drippings around the edges, and some stored honey in the storage cells for sure.

For gameplay, if the max armies you get is 15, when would it drop to 14? When you get to 41 territories? I ask this because for 2 and 3 player games you'll get 115 territories and it'll be a while before you get to 41... Which should make for balanced play, I think, since even if you're starting to fall behind in territory count, you'll still be making the same base amount as your opponent. I just want to be sure about how many reinforcement you'll get per turn and when it will start to decrease.

[WidowMakers]

OK, I think we are getting pretty close.

Changes:
1) Adjusted the legend per MrBenns request (both the layout and the MIN/MAX alignment
2) Added Honey all over the place
3) Created light refraction effects under honey to give 3d look.
4) Tweaked the "b" letters in the hexes to make them look less like 8's
5) added "for klobber" under Widowmakers adn Killerpit4e names.

I looked at the other pixel fonts. Many of them i already tried and they simply don't work.
For the large map there will be room but for this one there is none.

Version 9

[WidowMakers]

For gameplay, if the max armies you get is 15, when would it drop to 14? When you get to 41 territories? I ask this because for 2 and 3 player games you'll get 115 territories and it'll be a while before you get to 41... Which should make for balanced play, I think, since even if you're starting to fall behind in territory count, you'll still be making the same base amount as your opponent. I just want to be sure about how many reinforcement you'll get per turn and when it will start to decrease.

when you get to 44 territories, the bonus will drop to 14. That is why I originally suggested a MAX of 10. That way the first player does not get an easy attack to take over several 3 hex groups. But we can still discuss this.

WM

[Evil DIMwit]

Oh god I want to eat that map now.

I have a gameplay question: 3-comb clusters A1, K5, H17, A16, and L19 are a bunch of dead ends which I think would establish a tedious routine when taking them over from another player of having to either split your army or end your run. Why not make them more open -- e.g. make one more territory per cluster into a border territory -- so that a conqueror can just run through to the other side?

[john9blue]

*licks tongue across screen*

[WidowMakers]

Oh god I want to eat that map now.

I have a gameplay question: 3-comb clusters A1, K5, H17, A16, and L19 are a bunch of dead ends which I think would establish a tedious routine when taking them over from another player of having to either split your army or end your run. Why not make them more open -- e.g. make one more territory per cluster into a border territory -- so that a conqueror can just run through to the other side?

I think I can fix these easily