richsz3, ohso_cute secret diplomacy [noted/cleared/closed]

[Beckytheblondie]

Accused:

richsz3
ohso_cute

The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

Game 5595450

Comments: I wish you could have seen the game play out. Obvious, obvious secret alliance. They've played many together before. It's funny that with such an obvious alliance, they still can't win them all 2v1...

[slowreactor]

WOW... just looking at the very first page, they have played EVERY SINGLE GAME together. Unbelievable.

Bust 'em already.

[40kguy]

WOW... just looking at the very first page, they have played EVERY SINGLE GAME together. Unbelievable.

Bust 'em already.

and most of the 2nd page

[king achilles]

These players could be family members or friends. Considering the number of games these two have already played, and the first time they have been reported after all that, I may be needing more than this game to warrant a possible block for them. For now this is noted. You can give them the appropriate ratings for a most likely secret diplomacy.

[ohso_cute]

Comments: I wish you could have seen the game play out. Obvious, obvious secret alliance. They've played many together before. It's funny that with such an obvious alliance, they still can't win them all 2v1.. . by Beckytheblondie

Well that would lead me to believe that there is no alliance! My God! Have you gone into the games.....if you "could" see them play out then I imagine you would think differently...but of course only cause it was your game and you lost!!! Is there a whining forum??? Perhaps there should be!

[ohso_cute]

slowreactor wrote:WOW... just looking at the very first page, they have played EVERY SINGLE GAME together. Unbelievable.

Bust 'em already.





I suggest you go and take a closer look!!!!

[jefjef]

These players could be family members or friends. Considering the number of games these two have already played, and the first time they have been reported after all that, I may be needing more than this game to warrant a possible block for them. For now this is noted. You can give them the appropriate ratings for a most likely secret diplomacy.

Why does it matter if this is the 1st time they were reported? Do multies have to be reported more than once?

They do seem to team up. As you stated king "a most likely secret diplomacy."


Look at chat game 5589764... The 3rd wheel was chating up about the gang bang. It was the 1st one I clicked on. I bet if logs were checked in alot of those that would be the proof ya need king.

Looks like a block is in order.

Hey BECKY.. SInce this is ok how about we start a bunch of 3 player games & team up and eliminate the 3rd wheel than fight it out... Sounds good to me!

[king sam]

Why does it matter if this is the 1st time they were reported? Do multies have to be reported more than once?

They do seem to team up. As you stated king "a most likely secret diplomacy."

Look at chat game 5589764... The 3rd wheel was chating up about the gang bang. It was the 1st one I clicked on. I bet if logs were checked in alot of those that would be the proof ya need king.

Looks like a block is in order.

Hey BECKY.. SInce this is ok how about we start a bunch of 3 player games & team up and eliminate the 3rd wheel than fight it out... Sounds good to me!

Come on jefjef you know this is not the appropriate way to handle the situation. If you have a problem with the ruling given please open up an E-ticket and not troll here asking for assistance in violating CC rules.

King A never stated that these 2 were in fact conducting in secret diplomacy, just that they may be friends or family members. As in any Secret diplomacy case you know it takes a trend to warrant a Block. This has been the only occurrence of this nature that has been reported, so it has been treated as such.

King Sam

[TheForgivenOne]

slowreactor wrote:WOW... just looking at the very first page, they have played EVERY SINGLE GAME together. Unbelievable.

Bust 'em already.





I suggest you go and take a closer look!!!!

I actually looked at your page that first came up on your recently played games list. On that page, you only played him/ with him and against another opponent. Never a game with nobody else in it. None doubles games though. How about you give that a try

[BigBallinStalin]

Accused:

richsz3
ohso_cute

The accused are suspected of:

Engaging in Secret Diplomacy, and Essentially Being a Multi


Game number(s):

Many. Please read on.




....
My dear CC members, and your most highly esteemed CC-Honourable #1, allow me to first bring to your immediate attention that this is a different case. It provides an overwhelming amount of evidence on the two defendants' engagement in secret diplomacy which was unfortunately insufficiently addressed and poorly scrutinized in the previous case; this also addresses the issue of CC-Mods inadvertently legitimizing richsz3 and ohso_cute's illicit method of gameplay, and also charges the accused with essentially acting as a multi account. However, I'd like to sincerely thank Beckytheblondie for initiating this case.


As seen in the closed thread "richsz3, ohso_cute secret diplomacy [noted]" http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=96734, one can easily fail to understand the extremely lenient punishment given to the accused. Also, since their illegal method of gameplay is merely punishable by "noted," they will most likely continue to engage in secret diplomacy and continue being a border-line multi. Furthermore, this will encourage others to do the exact same thing since the consequences are highly laughable and easily shrugged off. Do we want this to happen to our beloved CC community? Hell no! Do we want such culprits as these to get away with such egregious crimes? No, sir, we don't!

Allow me to bring to your attention their infringment of our sacred Rule #1 and #2 as well as the potential consequences of the previous case.

Game 2587467
3-player,
2008-06-05 03:38:49 - fumandomuerte: hi, GL people
2008-06-05 04:01:25 - fumandomuerte: why you didn't break green's bonus? are you like a team or something?
2008-06-05 04:06:19 - ohso_cute: hi
2008-06-05 04:06:58 - richsz3: sorry, didnt see it till now

Rule #1: "Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand."

Read the log, see how they target fumandomuerte. They're cheating. It's well co-ordinated and there's no planned strategy on the game chat: secret diplomacy. And it doesn't matter if they live together. If they want to play games together, then they should play on a team.

Also:
2009-09-15 14:11:02 - richsz3 received 6 troops for 20 regions
2009-09-15 14:11:03 - ohso_cute received 6 troops for 20 regions
2009-09-15 14:11:14 - ohso_cute deployed 6 troops on Fenwick Hills
2009-09-15 14:11:16 - ohso_cute assaulted Head Quarters Plantation from Fenwick Hills and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:11:22 - ohso_cute assaulted Miller Hill from Fenwick Hills and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:11:43 - ohso_cute assaulted Angel Oak from Miller Hill and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:14:23 - ohso_cute reinforced Citadel Mall with 2 troops from East Ashley
2009-09-15 14:14:23 - ohso_cute ended the turn and got spoils
2009-09-15 14:14:32 - richsz3 deployed 2 troops on East Bay Street
2009-09-15 14:15:06 - richsz3 deployed 4 troops on M.U.S.C.
2009-09-15 14:15:08 - richsz3 assaulted Gibbes from M.U.S.C. and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:15:25 - richsz3 reinforced Gibbes with 2 troops from Drum Island
2009-09-15 14:15:25 - richsz3 ended the turn and got spoils

Please notice the slight difference in times between their two turns, he/she even starts one, then goes to the next, then resumes the other. A tall-tale sign of a multi. But please, this gets addressed again later.

According to king achilles's decision, their actions are justified since they are either family members or perhaps a good friends. Allow me to paraphrase his additional justifications: 'they've already played a considerable number of games, and this is the first time they've been reported.' Now considering all this, anybody can easily jump to the conclusion that one can now start doubleteaming in standard games while engaging in secret diplomacy with a good friend/family member as long as one has already played many games with their family member or friend beforehand. Now, now, don't go launching a multitude of tabs to alert your buddies about this newfound path to bountiful amounts of points. There is a serious punishment to be had! ...You could get the all mighty "noted" slapped on you!!! ( http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=96734#p2214560 ).

"I may be needing more than this game to warrant a possible block for them." Well, if you want it king achilles, YOU GOT IT! Please read on:

Game 3213800 4player standard, hardly attacked one another. ohso_cute seems to have helped richsz3 in defending Scandanavia. It goes on and on, they purposely stay away from one another. ohso_cute could've broken richsz3's bonus/es at one point or another, conveniently forgot, and HEY what'dya know! One of them won! Amazing teamwork!

Game 3258506 4 player standard world, Notice how they go after one another so quickly. How thin is the line between family friends and multis? Sure richsz3 and his ladyfriend/wife/whatever have made separate accounts, but what's really stopping him or his sweetheart from playing both accounts right after another? Seems like we've just stepped in the #2 Rule here. And what's that tell us, Johnny? Johnny says, "Right you are, BigBallinStalin; they've just stepped into a tremendous pile of feces by obviously displaying the common behavior of... That's right! You guessed it! A MULTI!!" [Applause] -Heyy, that's great, Johnny; and now back to the evidence:

Let us not forget that they hardly ever attack each other--another coincidence!? My God, that coincidence seems to happen a lot! And allow me to bring to your attention their apparent lack of any game chat toward one another in planning any of these manuevers (secret diplomacy, DING DING DING! "Secret diplomacy is... the right answer!" says Johnny. [Applause]

Game 3256493 4 player standard world, mainly avoided each other and only killed each other when it was convenient (for example, taking a bonus). Other than that, they seemingy ignored each other the whole game and only attacked the others, and ohso_cute pulls a STUNNING victory! Another big score for the love duo! Somebody quickly compose a song to commemorate such an occasion!!! (Thanks, guys!)

And I'm sure that in their standard games together (see below), although they may have attacked each other, I'm sure there were chances where they could've killed or severely crippled each other. Yet, they didn't since they secretly agreed to eliminate whoever they were double-teaming at the time. They could have even placed armies next to each other in order to defend one another's bonus from any counterattack. All of this is especially easy to do when one acts as a multi for the other and/or engages in secret diplomacy for the other.

Game 2587485 Game 3214434 Their standard Treasures Of Galapagos is a rare case of them being unable to double-team (yet most likely still engage in secret diplomacy. How easily is it for them to use both of their screens on a fog of war map and find out where their opponents are? Extremely easy. Once again, the acrid stench of Multi fills my nostrils--perhaps multi is too strong a word, yet there's hardly a difference between this case and the common multi). But they don't seem too successful at this map; probably too many neutrals and it's difficult to doubleteam the others--aww, too bad, huh? And there's plenty more.

I'd say very few standard games which they both joined were played fairly, and that's being generous because their temptation to engage in secret diplomacy and engage in border-line multi behavior only seems too great. Game 3258063 Seems fair enough, but once again, easily could've prevented the others from breaking one another's bonus by "accidentely" protecting each other by conveniently placing armies in a certain spot, or by playing conveniently for the other "multi" account.

More highly probable instances of breaking Rule #1 and/or Rule #2 can be seen in the following games: Game 3264914 Game 3259321 Game 3264914 Game 3271211 Game 3638845 Game 3644419 Game 3644420[Game]
3790870[/Game] Game 3793995 Game 3794022 Game 3794287 Game 3889616 Game 3889925 Game 3889931 Game 3889933 Game 3901169 Game 3915451 Game 3915453 and most likely another 30+ games, possibly 50+, given that they display similar patterns of behavior and actions in most of their standard 3+ games. Therefore, all of these games are riddled with secret diplomacy and/or multi account use--regardless of whether or not they may have happened to play fairly and/or win in any of these games.

Rule #1 and Rule #2 broken, yet the punishment is... "noted." Obviously, the punishment is extremely and unnecessarily lenient. As seen with the history of most multi's and secret diplomats, the punishment should be perma-ban, temp-ban, or a stern warning if they've generously donated some certain amount of funds--OH, I mean, if they are already paying customers...

A more reasonable punishment would be blocking the two from joining standard games with one another and also strongly urging them to play in team games since they're so set on wanting to play with one another (a.k.a. Warning). Of course, they should be allowed to 1v1 each other because that's just so damn cute of them. (lol, just kidding, it's adorable). But if that can't be done, then SORRY, you shouldn't have cheated anyway. That's karma at work!

If the punishment will not be changed or if the punishment is still lacking, then the CC mods have obviously lowered the standard on multi-abuse and secret diplomacy; thereby, legitamizing the illicit method of richsz3 and ohso_cute and similar infringements upon the law. Furthermore, a lenient punishment merely garners strength for this burdensome, unrighteous double standard that has been placed upon our dear CC community for so long. How many of us have suffered from poor quality judgements? Too many! How many criminals have been allowed to escape CC's Long Arm of the Law? Too many! How many of us have been punished unjustly due to this ridiculous double standard of justice? Too many! Have any of us been tried and punished unjustly and with extreme prejudice? Too many of us have! And this has gone on far enough! This must end here. These overwhelming obvious crimes must not go unpunished and should never be handled lightly. For every decision made by a CC-judge, there are many consequences; and the negative consequences of the previous case must be corrected. My fellow CC members deserve justice, they deserve fair games free of such malignant culprits like richsz3 and ohso_cute, they deserve the security and comfort in knowing that they're paying for a righteous gaming server which does uphold its two main rules and will properly mete out justice.

And, well, if you're not paying, then surely by joining our games and occasionally commenting on this forum, you do everyone at the CC community a huge favor. Let us not forget our financially strained brothers!

The numerous CC-members who have been wronged by richsz3 and ohso_cute deserve justice! And all CC-members who have ever been wronged deserve justice! (But, we'll begin with this case first, shall we? )



I patiently await your decision,

-BigBallinStalin

[nippersean]

Hope I'm not flaming here but.......

I was amazed by this decision.

Have you noticed the guy ohso_cute is kissing on the profile picture is a lookalike for richsz3 profile pic......

maybe that's why they play 99% of games together?? aaahhh young love I remember the days......

[BigBallinStalin]

maybe that's why they play 99% of games together?? aaahhh young love I remember the days......

My dear old comrade, we know why they play 99% of their games together; that's apparently evident. What shouldn't be tolerated is the weak punishment for their infringement upon Rules #1 and #2. Surely, they can play together, but they should do it officially as a team, like sex, right? Together, as one; shouldn't take them too long to figure that out.

[jefjef]

Very well presented.

In support of this complaint I wish to share game chat from 5589764. 3 player standard. With we know who as two of them.

2009-09-14 13:07:42 - ChrisBeerens: reds gotthis
2009-09-14 13:08:00 - ChrisBeerens: green is sheer lucky
2009-09-14 13:08:10 - ChrisBeerens: and taking out me was so very stupid
2009-09-14 13:12:15 - ohso_cute: why is taking you out stupid....?
2009-09-14 13:12:34 - ChrisBeerens: red is huge
2009-09-14 13:15:05 - ohso_cute: i happen to think im doing pretty good, thank you very much
2009-09-14 13:15:10 - ohso_cute:
2009-09-14 13:17:03 - ChrisBeerens: ty for russian
2009-09-14 13:17:15 - ChrisBeerens: i have both of u taking me out lmao
2009-09-14 13:19:42 - ChrisBeerens: im out
2009-09-14 13:20:11 - ChrisBeerens: like i said earlier
2009-09-14 13:20:12 - ChrisBeerens: red wins
2009-09-14 13:21:17 - ChrisBeerens: yep
2009-09-14 13:21:21 - ChrisBeerens: looks like it
2009-09-14 13:21:24 - ChrisBeerens: unlucky red
2009-09-14 13:21:33 - ChrisBeerens: i had both of you take me out... not much i could do
2009-09-14 13:23:13 - ohso_cute: thanks guys......

Sorry CC. If this post breaks the gambling rule or lets say the bigotry rule it will only cost me 3 games. WHERES MY POINTS.

[Beckytheblondie]

BigBallinStalin, you're the Czar!

[Darthvadar]

Top Post

[BigBallinStalin]

Thank you, jefjef, for the additional support and your comment about WHERE'S MY POINTS is purely humorous with a tinge of seriousness, and it in no way derails this thread. The only thing derailing it would be a response for whomever wishes to disregard the main topic at hand, which is richsz3 and ohso_cute's case as well as CC-social justice (which may seriously be addressed in a more appropriate subforum). Since jefjef provided substantial evidence, he is not to be punished in any way, shape, or form for his reply.

thank you Darthvadar and Becky for the boost to my ego as well as my morale. Once again, this wouldn't have been possible without becky's earlier post.


As a short sidenote: I'm willing to provide my services completely for free with no strings attached. If you ever find yourself being jammed against the wall and feel something intruding upon your well-being, I'd be happy to come to your defense with my seemingly endless amounts of playful banter, propaganda, as well as serious monologues. Also, if you'd like help in accusing someone, then you may feel free to message me as well. From the PMs, we can further discuss your problem.
--Please do not reply to this last message, just PM me for details.

And now back to the show:

[Nola_Lifer]

If you also look at their 3 player, standard games, most of the time they take the 3rd party out first than they are left for each other.

[eye84free]

They have been cleared of being multis. Now any team games which they are partners is aloud. Others games I feel dont support Secret Diplomacy. Below is the link where they were cleared of being multis and Secret Diplomacy. I other issues do arise please dont hesitate to post your issue. But as it stands now case closed.


http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=96734

Both reports have been merged into 1.

[ohso_cute]

* Report this post
* Reply with quote

richsz3 and ohso_cute's case[Cleared/Closed]

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:37 am
Accused:

richsz3
ohso_cute

The accused are suspected of:

Engaging in Secret Diplomacy, and Essentially Being a Multi


Game number(s):

Many. Please read on.




....
My dear CC members, and your most highly esteemed CC-Honourable #1, allow me to first bring to your immediate attention that this is a different case. It provides an overwhelming amount of evidence on the two defendants' engagement in secret diplomacy which was unfortunately insufficiently addressed and poorly scrutinized in the previous case; this also addresses the issue of CC-Mods inadvertently legitimizing richsz3 and ohso_cute's illicit method of gameplay, and also charges the accused with essentially acting as a multi account. However, I'd like to sincerely thank Beckytheblondie for initiating this case.


As seen in the closed thread "richsz3, ohso_cute secret diplomacy [noted]" viewtopic.php?f=239&t=96734, one can easily fail to understand the extremely lenient punishment given to the accused. Also, since their illegal method of gameplay is merely punishable by "noted," they will most likely continue to engage in secret diplomacy and continue being a border-line multi. Furthermore, this will encourage others to do the exact same thing since the consequences are highly laughable and easily shrugged off. Do we want this to happen to our beloved CC community? Hell no! Do we want such culprits as these to get away with such egregious crimes? No, sir, we don't!

Allow me to bring to your attention their infringment of our sacred Rule #1 and #2 as well as the potential consequences of the previous case.

Game 2587467
3-player,
2008-06-05 03:38:49 - fumandomuerte: hi, GL people
2008-06-05 04:01:25 - fumandomuerte: why you didn't break green's bonus? are you like a team or something?
2008-06-05 04:06:19 - ohso_cute: hi
2008-06-05 04:06:58 - richsz3: sorry, didnt see it till now

Rule #1: "Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand."

Read the log, see how they target fumandomuerte. They're cheating. It's well co-ordinated and there's no planned strategy on the game chat: secret diplomacy. And it doesn't matter if they live together. If they want to play games together, then they should play on a team.

Also:
2009-09-15 14:11:02 - richsz3 received 6 troops for 20 regions
2009-09-15 14:11:03 - ohso_cute received 6 troops for 20 regions
2009-09-15 14:11:14 - ohso_cute deployed 6 troops on Fenwick Hills
2009-09-15 14:11:16 - ohso_cute assaulted Head Quarters Plantation from Fenwick Hills and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:11:22 - ohso_cute assaulted Miller Hill from Fenwick Hills and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:11:43 - ohso_cute assaulted Angel Oak from Miller Hill and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:14:23 - ohso_cute reinforced Citadel Mall with 2 troops from East Ashley
2009-09-15 14:14:23 - ohso_cute ended the turn and got spoils
2009-09-15 14:14:32 - richsz3 deployed 2 troops on East Bay Street
2009-09-15 14:15:06 - richsz3 deployed 4 troops on M.U.S.C.
2009-09-15 14:15:08 - richsz3 assaulted Gibbes from M.U.S.C. and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:15:25 - richsz3 reinforced Gibbes with 2 troops from Drum Island
2009-09-15 14:15:25 - richsz3 ended the turn and got spoils

Please notice the slight difference in times between their two turns, he/she even starts one, then goes to the next, then resumes the other. A tall-tale sign of a multi. But please, this gets addressed again later.

According to king achilles's decision, their actions are justified since they are either family members or perhaps a good friends. Allow me to paraphrase his additional justifications: 'they've already played a considerable number of games, and this is the first time they've been reported.' Now considering all this, anybody can easily jump to the conclusion that one can now start doubleteaming in standard games while engaging in secret diplomacy with a good friend/family member as long as one has already played many games with their family member or friend beforehand. Now, now, don't go launching a multitude of tabs to alert your buddies about this newfound path to bountiful amounts of points. There is a serious punishment to be had! ...You could get the all mighty "noted" slapped on you!!! ( viewtopic.php?f=239&t=96734#p2214560 ).

"I may be needing more than this game to warrant a possible block for them." Well, if you want it king achilles, YOU GOT IT! Please read on:

Game 3213800 4player standard, hardly attacked one another. ohso_cute seems to have helped richsz3 in defending Scandanavia. It goes on and on, they purposely stay away from one another. ohso_cute could've broken richsz3's bonus/es at one point or another, conveniently forgot, and HEY what'dya know! One of them won! Amazing teamwork!

Game 3258506 4 player standard world, Notice how they go after one another so quickly. How thin is the line between family friends and multis? Sure richsz3 and his ladyfriend/wife/whatever have made separate accounts, but what's really stopping him or his sweetheart from playing both accounts right after another? Seems like we've just stepped in the #2 Rule here. And what's that tell us, Johnny? Johnny says, "Right you are, BigBallinStalin; they've just stepped into a tremendous pile of feces by obviously displaying the common behavior of... That's right! You guessed it! A MULTI!!" [Applause] -Heyy, that's great, Johnny; and now back to the evidence:

Let us not forget that they hardly ever attack each other--another coincidence!? My God, that coincidence seems to happen a lot! And allow me to bring to your attention their apparent lack of any game chat toward one another in planning any of these manuevers (secret diplomacy, DING DING DING! "Secret diplomacy is... the right answer!" says Johnny. [Applause]

Game 3256493 4 player standard world, mainly avoided each other and only killed each other when it was convenient (for example, taking a bonus). Other than that, they seemingy ignored each other the whole game and only attacked the others, and ohso_cute pulls a STUNNING victory! Another big score for the love duo! Somebody quickly compose a song to commemorate such an occasion!!! (Thanks, guys!)

And I'm sure that in their standard games together (see below), although they may have attacked each other, I'm sure there were chances where they could've killed or severely crippled each other. Yet, they didn't since they secretly agreed to eliminate whoever they were double-teaming at the time. They could have even placed armies next to each other in order to defend one another's bonus from any counterattack. All of this is especially easy to do when one acts as a multi for the other and/or engages in secret diplomacy for the other.

Game 2587485 Game 3214434 Their standard Treasures Of Galapagos is a rare case of them being unable to double-team (yet most likely still engage in secret diplomacy. How easily is it for them to use both of their screens on a fog of war map and find out where their opponents are? Extremely easy. Once again, the acrid stench of Multi fills my nostrils--perhaps multi is too strong a word, yet there's hardly a difference between this case and the common multi). But they don't seem too successful at this map; probably too many neutrals and it's difficult to doubleteam the others--aww, too bad, huh? And there's plenty more.

I'd say very few standard games which they both joined were played fairly, and that's being generous because their temptation to engage in secret diplomacy and engage in border-line multi behavior only seems too great. Game 3258063 Seems fair enough, but once again, easily could've prevented the others from breaking one another's bonus by "accidentely" protecting each other by conveniently placing armies in a certain spot, or by playing conveniently for the other "multi" account.

More highly probable instances of breaking Rule #1 and/or Rule #2 can be seen in the following games: Game 3264914 Game 3259321 Game 3264914 Game 3271211 Game 3638845 Game 3644419 Game 3644420[Game]
3790870[/Game] Game 3793995 Game 3794022 Game 3794287 Game 3889616 Game 3889925 Game 3889931 Game 3889933 Game 3901169 Game 3915451 Game 3915453 and most likely another 30+ games, possibly 50+, given that they display similar patterns of behavior and actions in most of their standard 3+ games. Therefore, all of these games are riddled with secret diplomacy and/or multi account use--regardless of whether or not they may have happened to play fairly and/or win in any of these games.

Rule #1 and Rule #2 broken, yet the punishment is... "noted." Obviously, the punishment is extremely and unnecessarily lenient. As seen with the history of most multi's and secret diplomats, the punishment should be perma-ban, temp-ban, or a stern warning if they've generously donated some certain amount of funds--OH, I mean, if they are already paying customers...

A more reasonable punishment would be blocking the two from joining standard games with one another and also strongly urging them to play in team games since they're so set on wanting to play with one another (a.k.a. Warning). Of course, they should be allowed to 1v1 each other because that's just so damn cute of them. (lol, just kidding, it's adorable). But if that can't be done, then SORRY, you shouldn't have cheated anyway. That's karma at work!

If the punishment will not be changed or if the punishment is still lacking, then the CC mods have obviously lowered the standard on multi-abuse and secret diplomacy; thereby, legitamizing the illicit method of richsz3 and ohso_cute and similar infringements upon the law. Furthermore, a lenient punishment merely garners strength for this burdensome, unrighteous double standard that has been placed upon our dear CC community for so long. How many of us have suffered from poor quality judgements? Too many! How many criminals have been allowed to escape CC's Long Arm of the Law? Too many! How many of us have been punished unjustly due to this ridiculous double standard of justice? Too many! Have any of us been tried and punished unjustly and with extreme prejudice? Too many of us have! And this has gone on far enough! This must end here. These overwhelming obvious crimes must not go unpunished and should never be handled lightly. For every decision made by a CC-judge, there are many consequences; and the negative consequences of the previous case must be corrected. My fellow CC members deserve justice, they deserve fair games free of such malignant culprits like richsz3 and ohso_cute, they deserve the security and comfort in knowing that they're paying for a righteous gaming server which does uphold its two main rules and will properly mete out justice.

And, well, if you're not paying, then surely by joining our games and occasionally commenting on this forum, you do everyone at the CC community a huge favor. Let us not forget our financially strained brothers!

The numerous CC-members who have been wronged by richsz3 and ohso_cute deserve justice! And all CC-members who have ever been wronged deserve justice! (But, we'll begin with this case first, shall we? )



I patiently await your decision,

-BigBallinStalin



I am getting so sick and tired of defending myself. BigBallinStalin.......you went through and posted 25 games......I have played far more then that! You want to make your case, go through every single one of them! I went through and noted 75 games where 34 of them had nothing to do with my Husband (richsz3) So that leaves us with 41 games where we have played with up to 5 other players and we lost. So that must make us the worst cheaters/multis/secret diplomacy players EVER!! Check ALL dates, times, log ins, ip's. I go months without playing a single game, When I fist started I wasn't a paying member, and when I became a paying member and that membership ran out I did not renew it right away, however my husband did!!!....so please tell me what that means? Is that some sort of strategy thing? My husband has been playing and Paying for this site for a year or more before I ever met him. He also plays way more then I do obviously with OTHER people! Is that also some sort of strategy thing? Are we trying to throw everyone off from our sneaky devious ways? Take a look way, way back to when I joined cc. All my games are played with my husband(richsz3). Was it meant to be "cute", sighhh "young love". NO, its called, I was learning and didn't feel comfortable playing with other people! As you may have noticed, people are not always nice in this game and have no problems telling you that you are the worst player ever!!! So you are either and shitty player, or your a cheater. Interesting! So tell me, what is the point of cheating? Why play if you are only going to cheat? What is the satisfaction in that? Why risk the chance of getting kicked off a game that you enjoy, that you take pride in when you win, that with TWO memberships for TWO separate people that cost 50 bucks a year would you risk it? I take pride in the points that I have and the rank I have achieved. I have finally started to feel comfortable with trying other styles of play like terminator, assassin, etc. I'm a competitive player no matter who is playing! I have my own style of play and that's how I play! The point is to win, get points, and move up in Rank! And I play how I feel will accomplish that in every single game. If its you, my husband.....I don't care! I'm here to win! IF you don't like it......tough shit! So Now BigBallinStalin I suggest you find more productive ways to spend your time! This is a game, and people like you are taking the fun out of it for me! For 25 bucks a year I should be able to play in peace and not be continually harassed based on a few games!

[BigBallinStalin]

Yes, y'all are terrible at cheating. And yes you still cheat. The decision upheld by the mods clearly reflects the lack of quality judgement on their part. They failed to even directly address my evidence which means they don't like being proven wrong and/or they're judgement on this case and numerous others is biased and poorly founded.

[lord voldemort]

We stick by our decison as thats what we have decided. We didnt overlook games the first time we looked at this report, what has changed??

[BigBallinStalin]

* Report this post
* Reply with quote

richsz3 and ohso_cute's case[Cleared/Closed]

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:37 am
Accused:

richsz3
ohso_cute

The accused are suspected of:

Engaging in Secret Diplomacy, and Essentially Being a Multi


Game number(s):

Many. Please read on.




....
My dear CC members, and your most highly esteemed CC-Honourable #1, allow me to first bring to your immediate attention that this is a different case. It provides an overwhelming amount of evidence on the two defendants' engagement in secret diplomacy which was unfortunately insufficiently addressed and poorly scrutinized in the previous case; this also addresses the issue of CC-Mods inadvertently legitimizing richsz3 and ohso_cute's illicit method of gameplay, and also charges the accused with essentially acting as a multi account. However, I'd like to sincerely thank Beckytheblondie for initiating this case.


As seen in the closed thread "richsz3, ohso_cute secret diplomacy [noted]" viewtopic.php?f=239&t=96734, one can easily fail to understand the extremely lenient punishment given to the accused. Also, since their illegal method of gameplay is merely punishable by "noted," they will most likely continue to engage in secret diplomacy and continue being a border-line multi. Furthermore, this will encourage others to do the exact same thing since the consequences are highly laughable and easily shrugged off. Do we want this to happen to our beloved CC community? Hell no! Do we want such culprits as these to get away with such egregious crimes? No, sir, we don't!

Allow me to bring to your attention their infringment of our sacred Rule #1 and #2 as well as the potential consequences of the previous case.

Game 2587467
3-player,
2008-06-05 03:38:49 - fumandomuerte: hi, GL people
2008-06-05 04:01:25 - fumandomuerte: why you didn't break green's bonus? are you like a team or something?
2008-06-05 04:06:19 - ohso_cute: hi
2008-06-05 04:06:58 - richsz3: sorry, didnt see it till now

Rule #1: "Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand."

Read the log, see how they target fumandomuerte. They're cheating. It's well co-ordinated and there's no planned strategy on the game chat: secret diplomacy. And it doesn't matter if they live together. If they want to play games together, then they should play on a team.

Also:
2009-09-15 14:11:02 - richsz3 received 6 troops for 20 regions
2009-09-15 14:11:03 - ohso_cute received 6 troops for 20 regions
2009-09-15 14:11:14 - ohso_cute deployed 6 troops on Fenwick Hills
2009-09-15 14:11:16 - ohso_cute assaulted Head Quarters Plantation from Fenwick Hills and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:11:22 - ohso_cute assaulted Miller Hill from Fenwick Hills and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:11:43 - ohso_cute assaulted Angel Oak from Miller Hill and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:14:23 - ohso_cute reinforced Citadel Mall with 2 troops from East Ashley
2009-09-15 14:14:23 - ohso_cute ended the turn and got spoils
2009-09-15 14:14:32 - richsz3 deployed 2 troops on East Bay Street
2009-09-15 14:15:06 - richsz3 deployed 4 troops on M.U.S.C.
2009-09-15 14:15:08 - richsz3 assaulted Gibbes from M.U.S.C. and conquered it from Beckytheblondie
2009-09-15 14:15:25 - richsz3 reinforced Gibbes with 2 troops from Drum Island
2009-09-15 14:15:25 - richsz3 ended the turn and got spoils

Please notice the slight difference in times between their two turns, he/she even starts one, then goes to the next, then resumes the other. A tall-tale sign of a multi. But please, this gets addressed again later.

According to king achilles's decision, their actions are justified since they are either family members or perhaps a good friends. Allow me to paraphrase his additional justifications: 'they've already played a considerable number of games, and this is the first time they've been reported.' Now considering all this, anybody can easily jump to the conclusion that one can now start doubleteaming in standard games while engaging in secret diplomacy with a good friend/family member as long as one has already played many games with their family member or friend beforehand. Now, now, don't go launching a multitude of tabs to alert your buddies about this newfound path to bountiful amounts of points. There is a serious punishment to be had! ...You could get the all mighty "noted" slapped on you!!! ( viewtopic.php?f=239&t=96734#p2214560 ).

"I may be needing more than this game to warrant a possible block for them." Well, if you want it king achilles, YOU GOT IT! Please read on:

Game 3213800 4player standard, hardly attacked one another. ohso_cute seems to have helped richsz3 in defending Scandanavia. It goes on and on, they purposely stay away from one another. ohso_cute could've broken richsz3's bonus/es at one point or another, conveniently forgot, and HEY what'dya know! One of them won! Amazing teamwork!

Game 3258506 4 player standard world, Notice how they go after one another so quickly. How thin is the line between family friends and multis? Sure richsz3 and his ladyfriend/wife/whatever have made separate accounts, but what's really stopping him or his sweetheart from playing both accounts right after another? Seems like we've just stepped in the #2 Rule here. And what's that tell us, Johnny? Johnny says, "Right you are, BigBallinStalin; they've just stepped into a tremendous pile of feces by obviously displaying the common behavior of... That's right! You guessed it! A MULTI!!" [Applause] -Heyy, that's great, Johnny; and now back to the evidence:

Let us not forget that they hardly ever attack each other--another coincidence!? My God, that coincidence seems to happen a lot! And allow me to bring to your attention their apparent lack of any game chat toward one another in planning any of these manuevers (secret diplomacy, DING DING DING! "Secret diplomacy is... the right answer!" says Johnny. [Applause]

Game 3256493 4 player standard world, mainly avoided each other and only killed each other when it was convenient (for example, taking a bonus). Other than that, they seemingy ignored each other the whole game and only attacked the others, and ohso_cute pulls a STUNNING victory! Another big score for the love duo! Somebody quickly compose a song to commemorate such an occasion!!! (Thanks, guys!)

And I'm sure that in their standard games together (see below), although they may have attacked each other, I'm sure there were chances where they could've killed or severely crippled each other. Yet, they didn't since they secretly agreed to eliminate whoever they were double-teaming at the time. They could have even placed armies next to each other in order to defend one another's bonus from any counterattack. All of this is especially easy to do when one acts as a multi for the other and/or engages in secret diplomacy for the other.

Game 2587485 Game 3214434 Their standard Treasures Of Galapagos is a rare case of them being unable to double-team (yet most likely still engage in secret diplomacy. How easily is it for them to use both of their screens on a fog of war map and find out where their opponents are? Extremely easy. Once again, the acrid stench of Multi fills my nostrils--perhaps multi is too strong a word, yet there's hardly a difference between this case and the common multi). But they don't seem too successful at this map; probably too many neutrals and it's difficult to doubleteam the others--aww, too bad, huh? And there's plenty more.

I'd say very few standard games which they both joined were played fairly, and that's being generous because their temptation to engage in secret diplomacy and engage in border-line multi behavior only seems too great. Game 3258063 Seems fair enough, but once again, easily could've prevented the others from breaking one another's bonus by "accidentely" protecting each other by conveniently placing armies in a certain spot, or by playing conveniently for the other "multi" account.

More highly probable instances of breaking Rule #1 and/or Rule #2 can be seen in the following games: Game 3264914 Game 3259321 Game 3264914 Game 3271211 Game 3638845 Game 3644419 Game 3644420[Game]
3790870[/Game] Game 3793995 Game 3794022 Game 3794287 Game 3889616 Game 3889925 Game 3889931 Game 3889933 Game 3901169 Game 3915451 Game 3915453 and most likely another 30+ games, possibly 50+, given that they display similar patterns of behavior and actions in most of their standard 3+ games. Therefore, all of these games are riddled with secret diplomacy and/or multi account use--regardless of whether or not they may have happened to play fairly and/or win in any of these games.

Rule #1 and Rule #2 broken, yet the punishment is... "noted." Obviously, the punishment is extremely and unnecessarily lenient. As seen with the history of most multi's and secret diplomats, the punishment should be perma-ban, temp-ban, or a stern warning if they've generously donated some certain amount of funds--OH, I mean, if they are already paying customers...

A more reasonable punishment would be blocking the two from joining standard games with one another and also strongly urging them to play in team games since they're so set on wanting to play with one another (a.k.a. Warning). Of course, they should be allowed to 1v1 each other because that's just so damn cute of them. (lol, just kidding, it's adorable). But if that can't be done, then SORRY, you shouldn't have cheated anyway. That's karma at work!

If the punishment will not be changed or if the punishment is still lacking, then the CC mods have obviously lowered the standard on multi-abuse and secret diplomacy; thereby, legitamizing the illicit method of richsz3 and ohso_cute and similar infringements upon the law. Furthermore, a lenient punishment merely garners strength for this burdensome, unrighteous double standard that has been placed upon our dear CC community for so long. How many of us have suffered from poor quality judgements? Too many! How many criminals have been allowed to escape CC's Long Arm of the Law? Too many! How many of us have been punished unjustly due to this ridiculous double standard of justice? Too many! Have any of us been tried and punished unjustly and with extreme prejudice? Too many of us have! And this has gone on far enough! This must end here. These overwhelming obvious crimes must not go unpunished and should never be handled lightly. For every decision made by a CC-judge, there are many consequences; and the negative consequences of the previous case must be corrected. My fellow CC members deserve justice, they deserve fair games free of such malignant culprits like richsz3 and ohso_cute, they deserve the security and comfort in knowing that they're paying for a righteous gaming server which does uphold its two main rules and will properly mete out justice.

And, well, if you're not paying, then surely by joining our games and occasionally commenting on this forum, you do everyone at the CC community a huge favor. Let us not forget our financially strained brothers!

The numerous CC-members who have been wronged by richsz3 and ohso_cute deserve justice! And all CC-members who have ever been wronged deserve justice! (But, we'll begin with this case first, shall we? )



I patiently await your decision,

-BigBallinStalin



I am getting so sick and tired of defending myself. BigBallinStalin.......you went through and posted 25 games......I have played far more then that! You want to make your case, go through every single one of them! I went through and noted 75 games where 34 of them had nothing to do with my Husband (richsz3) So that leaves us with 41 games where we have played with up to 5 other players and we lost. So that must make us the worst cheaters/multis/secret diplomacy players EVER!! Check ALL dates, times, log ins, ip's. I go months without playing a single game, When I fist started I wasn't a paying member, and when I became a paying member and that membership ran out I did not renew it right away, however my husband did!!!....so please tell me what that means? Is that some sort of strategy thing? My husband has been playing and Paying for this site for a year or more before I ever met him. He also plays way more then I do obviously with OTHER people! Is that also some sort of strategy thing? Are we trying to throw everyone off from our sneaky devious ways? Take a look way, way back to when I joined cc. All my games are played with my husband(richsz3). Was it meant to be "cute", sighhh "young love". NO, its called, I was learning and didn't feel comfortable playing with other people! As you may have noticed, people are not always nice in this game and have no problems telling you that you are the worst player ever!!! So you are either and shitty player, or your a cheater. Interesting! So tell me, what is the point of cheating? Why play if you are only going to cheat? What is the satisfaction in that? Why risk the chance of getting kicked off a game that you enjoy, that you take pride in when you win, that with TWO memberships for TWO separate people that cost 50 bucks a year would you risk it? I take pride in the points that I have and the rank I have achieved. I have finally started to feel comfortable with trying other styles of play like terminator, assassin, etc. I'm a competitive player no matter who is playing! I have my own style of play and that's how I play! The point is to win, get points, and move up in Rank! And I play how I feel will accomplish that in every single game. If its you, my husband.....I don't care! I'm here to win! IF you don't like it......tough shit! So Now BigBallinStalin I suggest you find more productive ways to spend your time! This is a game, and people like you are taking the fun out of it for me! For 25 bucks a year I should be able to play in peace and not be continually harassed based on a few games!

[BigBallinStalin]

We stick by our decison as thats what we have decided. We didnt overlook games the first time we looked at this report, what has changed??

Y'all have completely overlooked the new evidence, and y'all have failed to even properly address each matter in particular. This forum is still a sham. The accused party has most likely pm'd y'all complaining loudly about this since they're paying members, and since money seems to be the main thing that motivates the CC-mods, you have cleared them with NO punishment even though they are cheaters.

Once again, the rule of law here is meaningless since it isn't not properly applied. As long as you pay and complain loudly, anyone can get off the hook. Even though they are husband and wife STILL doesn't matter. Y'all have still failed to address illicit method of gameplay; therefore, the CC community fully justifies family/friend accounts who have played many games before and who also engage in secret diplomacy and obvious mutli-account use.

[BigBallinStalin]

Sorry for double posting, but i felt it was more appropriate to separetely address her reply in this method:

"I am getting so sick and tired of defending myself. BigBallinStalin.......you went through and posted 25 games......I have played far more then that! You want to make your case, go through every single one of them! I went through and noted 75 games where 34 of them had nothing to do with my Husband (richsz3) So that leaves us with 41 games where we have played with up to 5 other players and we lost. So that must make us the worst cheaters/multis/secret diplomacy players EVER!! Check ALL dates, times, log ins, ip's.[/quote]

First of all, you completely missed the point. Y'all engage in secret diplomacy and most likely your husband logs onto your account and takes your turns (multi). I went through most of y'alls standard games (your 1v1s do not matter, so don't bring them up).


"So that leaves us with 41 games where we have played with up to 5 other players and we lost"
You didn't lose all those games; therefore, you robbed many people of their points by engaging in secret diplomacy and/or multi-accounts. You are most likely unaware of what your husband does and how he plays on your account.

"So that must make us the worst cheaters/multis/secret diplomacy players EVER!! "
I couldn't agree any more; y'all are terrible at cheating since it's so fairly obvious in the logs, the log times, the game chat, and the similar patterns of gameplay. Huge signs of excellent cooperation with no stated strategy or planning in the game chat (secret diplomacy), and the log times are an excellent sign of multi-account use. But even with this, y'all still fail to win more games than I would expect, which only leads me to another conclusion: poor planning.

IPs DO NOT MATTER. One can easily log onto this computer, then go to the other computer in the other room, Oooo, different IPs, yet one can still be a multi. That point is spurious.


"I go months without playing a single game, When I fist started I wasn't a paying member, and when I became a paying member and that membership ran out I did not renew it right away, however my husband did!!!"
Of course he did, he mostly couldn't stand the thought of not using another account to rob others of their points.

"....so please tell me what that means? Is that some sort of strategy thing? My husband has been playing and Paying for this site for a year or more before I ever met him. He also plays way more then I do obviously with OTHER people! Is that also some sort of strategy thing? Are we trying to throw everyone off from our sneaky devious ways? "
It's fairly obvious the Rules #1 and #2 have been broken; however, you do not seem aware of this, hence you're poorly grounded questions.

"Take a look way, way back to when I joined cc. All my games are played with my husband(richsz3). Was it meant to be "cute", sighhh "young love". NO, its called, I was learning and didn't feel comfortable playing with other people! As you may have noticed, people are not always nice in this game and have no problems telling you that you are the worst player ever!!!"
This is completely off-topic, and I've already addressed your 1v1s. Go yell at the other guy for reminsicing about "young love."

"So you are either and shitty player, or your a cheater. Interesting! So tell me, what is the point of cheating? Why play if you are only going to cheat? What is the satisfaction in that? Why risk the chance of getting kicked off a game that you enjoy, that you take pride in when you win, that with TWO memberships for TWO separate people that cost 50 bucks a year would you risk it? "
Easy, it's easy to cheat and obviously easy to get away with it. Especially if one can hide their multi-account under their spouse's name. Even though you may occasionally use that account, there's nothing stopping himfor using it, which is fairly obvious. You know y'all plan together in standard games and you know you should post y'all's plans in the game chat, yet y'all fail to do so. This is secret diplomacy. People cheat for many reasons; one is for the sheer satisfaction derived from screwing over other people without their knowledge. One is for meaningless points, and do I really have to explain such simple reasons?


"I take pride in the points that I have and the rank I have achieved. I have finally started to feel comfortable with trying other styles of play like terminator, assassin, etc. I'm a competitive player no matter who is playing"
Good for you, so don't play any standard, term, assassin games with your husband. You two obviously have a history of cheating, so please don't ruin the game for everyone else.

"I have my own style of play and that's how I play! The point is to win, get points, and move up in Rank!"
Really? Do go on.

"And I play how I feel will accomplish that in every single game. If its you, my husband.....I don't care! I'm here to win! IF you don't like it......tough shit!"
Your reply is not at all convincing. You've completely failed in defending yourself properly and on numerous occasions you have missed many points that I addressed in my thread.


"So Now BigBallinStalin I suggest you find more productive ways to spend your time! This is a game, and people like you are taking the fun out of it for me! For 25 bucks a year I should be able to play in peace and not be continually harassed based on a few games!"
Obviously, you seem completely unaware of what your husband does, or you're lying. You didn't attack any of my arguments sufficiently to clear your name, and you didn't even address the exact games I mentioned. You didn't even explain any of what was said and not said between you and your husband and to other players. You're avoiding the main reason of my accusation because you know that you have cheated, yet you still won't admit it. Your indecent method of trying to dislodge my argument is counterproductive, for it makes you look like hysterical and irrational.

This is very productive on my part since hardly anyone takes the time to address the core issues of justice and law on this website. Neither you nor the CC-mod community has properly addressed my claim; therefore, you are still a cheater and the CC-mods who have addressed this issue have miserably failed at properly applying justice. This subforum is a joke, and you and your husband are cheaters who deprive everyone's game of fair play and enjoyment.

[eye84free]

Topic is locked. Decision stands.