The HIVE [Quenched]

[Silver-]

So here is a quick list of issues brought up since the poll:

2) Territory bonus capped at 10 - Still up for discussion

...

Stay tuned for a new map V3 and then we can get back into the nit picking of specifics.

But since items 2,3,5,6,7 can be discussed before the next draft, please feel free to talk about them.

Thanks again
WM

My Comments:

• To make it fair for all players in turn 1, territory bonus should start at round 2 only.
• Not sure we want to block bonus for number of territories to 10.
  - A concept like the "Conquer Man" map should be used.
• Territory naming suggestion:
  - All territories in same group start with same letter and number increment by 1 for each territory.
  - When letter Z is reach, the following one are AA, BB, ...
• Did you test a number of armies with 3 digits (ex. 100) on a territory?
  - Is there a need for 4 digits (ex. 1000)?

[WidowMakers]

My Comments:

• To make it fair for all players in turn 1, territory bonus should start at round 2 only.
• Not sure we want to block bonus for number of territories to 10.
  - A concept like the "Conquer Man" map should be used.
• Territory naming suggestion:
  - All territories in same group start with same letter and number increment by 1 for each territory.
  - When letter Z is reach, the following one are AA, BB, ...
• Did you test a number of armies with 3 digits (ex. 100) on a territory?
  - Is there a need for 4 digits (ex. 1000)?

Thanks for the comments. Here are my responses.

1) I am not sure if this is possible with the current XML or game engine. Does anyone know? My idea was to designate starting positions for different number of player games. That way in a 1v1, each player would start in every bonus group.
2) And escalating scheme could work but I am not sure I have room. What is your suggested scale? And how would you write in up?
3) I don't really like this. Pork and beams made a suggestion about using odd shaped terts earlier. His naming was a bit different but would basically have the same issue. If the groups are named like you proposed, the groups get all misaligned. it is harder to find D1,2,3 and GH1, AA2....
By having it the current way, players always know that columns go from A,B,C... and rows start at 1 and increase as you go down. Basic Excel chart method.
4)3 digits fit. 4 digit will not be needed. The bonuses will not be so high that the map will fill quickly. 1,000 troop sis a lot. The game is big but not overly large in bonuses. Plus if people are betting big bonuses on purpose to fill up the map, then there is nothing that can be done.

[WidowMakers]

VERSION 6
Changes:
1) Toned down pattern in back (still there to add a bit but not as harsh.
2) Changed Bonus info. Now reads: 1 army per 3 hexes, capped at 10
3) Show 2 digits and 3 digits



2 digits

3 digits

[Evil DIMwit]

I don't know if the note about the naming even needs to be there. If you call them e.g. "K2's Honeycomb Cluster" or "L7's" or "H1's" then it'll be perfectly clear in the battle log, and of course the size of the cluster is obvious from the value (and the fact that each hex is only in one cluster).

[Silver-]

My Comments:

• To make it fair for all players in turn 1, territory bonus should start at round 2 only.
• Not sure we want to block bonus for number of territories to 10.
  - A concept like the "Conquer Man" map should be used.
• Territory naming suggestion:
  - All territories in same group start with same letter and number increment by 1 for each territory.
  - When letter Z is reach, the following one are AA, BB, ...
• Did you test a number of armies with 3 digits (ex. 100) on a territory?
  - Is there a need for 4 digits (ex. 1000)?

Thanks for the comments. Here are my responses.

1) I am not sure if this is possible with the current XML or game engine. Does anyone know? My idea was to designate starting positions for different number of player games. That way in a 1v1, each player would start in every bonus group.
2) And escalating scheme could work but I am not sure I have room. What is your suggested scale? And how would you write in up?
3) I don't really like this. Pork and beams made a suggestion about using odd shaped terts earlier. His naming was a bit different but would basically have the same issue. If the groups are named like you proposed, the groups get all misaligned. it is harder to find D1,2,3 and GH1, AA2....
By having it the current way, players always know that columns go from A,B,C... and rows start at 1 and increase as you go down. Basic Excel chart method.
4)3 digits fit. 4 digit will not be needed. The bonuses will not be so high that the map will fill quickly. 1,000 troop sis a lot. The game is big but not overly large in bonuses. Plus if people are betting big bonuses on purpose to fill up the map, then there is nothing that can be done.

1) If the tool allowed it, I think it will be nice to have it.
If not, I like your idea of fix starting position instead of full random.

2) I will reuse a similar concept as the "Conquer Man" map:
- 1 army for every 3 (1-31 occupied terr.) -> bonus = 1-10
- 1 army for every 4 (32-64 occupied terr.) -> bonus = 8-15
- 1 army for every 5 (65-101 occupied terr.) -> bonus = 13-20
- 1 army for every 6 (102-150 occupied terr.) -> bonus = 17-25
- for 151 occupied terr.: maximum -> bonus = 25.

3) I am OK with your suggestion. It will make it easier.

4) Thanks for the answer.

[pamoa]

1
legend

... received 1 troop for holding Honeycomb Cluster A1
... received 7 troops for holding Honeycomb Cluster A3
... received 10 troops for holding Honeycomb Cluster G4
... received 1 troop for holding Honeycomb Cluster P3

If you want this to apply then your legend should be
honeycomb cluster naming : name of hex with the lowest alphanumeric value
without number of hexes in the group
2
territory bonus at round 2
impossible
3
starting positions
you will have to code each territory of the 3 hexes cluster as starting position to avoid first round bonuses

Code: Select all

<positions>
 <position>
  <territory>territ 1 cluster 1</territory>
  <territory>territ 1 cluster 2</territory>
  <territory>territ 1 cluster 3</territory>
  <territory>territ 1 cluster 4</territory>
  ...
 </position>
 <position>
  <territory>territ 2 cluster 1</territory>
  <territory>territ 2 cluster 2</territory>
  <territory>territ 2 cluster 3</territory>
  <territory>territ 2 cluster 4</territory>
  ...
 </position>
 <position>
  <territory>territ 3 cluster 1</territory>
  <territory>territ 3 cluster 2</territory>
  <territory>territ 3 cluster 3</territory>
  <territory>territ 3 cluster 4</territory>
  ...
 </position>
</positions>

4
4 digits numbers
in fact it may happen
100 armies WITH colour code is 4 digits

[00iCon]

Sorry to bring this up now, but couldn't this get a more "tactical" feel. It appears mostly luck based to me. I'n thinking along the lines of Waterloo, maybe drone bees attack 2 spaces/bombard, coloured hexagons attack hex's of the same colour?

EDIT: it's probably been discussed before.

PPS: My bad, those would bee(lame pun intended) the Nodes. But how about the drones from above. And how about a bonus for holding spread out larvae placed around the map?

[WidowMakers]

Sorry to bring this up now, but couldn't this get a more "tactical" feel. It appears mostly luck based to me. I'n thinking along the lines of Waterloo, maybe drone bees attack 2 spaces/bombard, coloured hexagons attack hex's of the same colour?

EDIT: it's probably been discussed before.

PPS: My bad, those would bee(lame pun intended) the Nodes. But how about the drones from above. And how about a bonus for holding spread out larvae placed around the map?

Thanks for the comments. Could you please explain what you mean by "more tactical". It is a simple standard map. It is not symmetrical. There are no bottle necks (as far as I can tell) Why do you perceive this map as lucky?

Thanks
WM

[thenobodies80]

... received 1 troop for holding Honeycomb Cluster A1
... received 7 troops for holding Honeycomb Cluster A3
... received 10 troops for holding Honeycomb Cluster G4
... received 1 troop for holding Honeycomb Cluster P3

If you want this to apply then your legend should be
honeycomb cluster naming : name of hex with the lowest alphanumeric value
without number of hexes in the group

Agree.
But with..."received 7 troops for holding Honeycomb Cluster A3" it is not clear with only..."honeycomb cluster naming: name of hex with the lowest alphanumeric value in the group"

I see no problems with this map and there is a good support, it's time to go on and refine gameplay.
I am pleased to issue this map the draft stamp on behalf of the foundry community



Have a nice day

[john9blue]

Cool, first step is complete!

If I had one gripe with the map at this point, it's the font in the legend. Yes I know it's the same font for the territories, but it's very bad on the eyes as it is now. You could definitely clean that up a bit (and, like Wit said, remove some stuff).

[00iCon]

Sorry to bring this up now, but couldn't this get a more "tactical" feel. It appears mostly luck based to me. I'n thinking along the lines of Waterloo, maybe drone bees attack 2 spaces/bombard, coloured hexagons attack hex's of the same colour?

EDIT: it's probably been discussed before.

PPS: My bad, those would bee(lame pun intended) the Nodes. But how about the drones from above. And how about a bonus for holding spread out larvae placed around the map?

Thanks for the comments. Could you please explain what you mean by "more tactical". It is a simple standard map. It is not symmetrical. There are no bottle necks (as far as I can tell) Why do you perceive this map as lucky?

Thanks
WM

As I said, bombardment done well makes maps ilke Waterloo tactical. So do the horses whcich attack 2 squares.
So do overlapping bonuses, like the larvae I mentioned, or like paths which give bonuses, like in Rail Aus.
In the end, it's probably a variety of XML features used in one map which make it feel tactical to me.

[Teflon Kris]

Glad to see this one progressing - I like the way you rallied for support - wish it was a different theme to bees - you could have droids?

[WidowMakers]

Sorry to bring this up now, but couldn't this get a more "tactical" feel. It appears mostly luck based to me. I'n thinking along the lines of Waterloo, maybe drone bees attack 2 spaces/bombard, coloured hexagons attack hex's of the same colour?

EDIT: it's probably been discussed before.

PPS: My bad, those would bee(lame pun intended) the Nodes. But how about the drones from above. And how about a bonus for holding spread out larvae placed around the map?

Thanks for the comments. Could you please explain what you mean by "more tactical". It is a simple standard map. It is not symmetrical. There are no bottle necks (as far as I can tell) Why do you perceive this map as lucky?

Thanks
WM

As I said, bombardment done well makes maps ilke Waterloo tactical. So do the horses whcich attack 2 squares.
So do overlapping bonuses, like the larvae I mentioned, or like paths which give bonuses, like in Rail Aus.
In the end, it's probably a variety of XML features used in one map which make it feel tactical to me.

OK I see what you are saying. But many people have said that they want a standard map but just bigger. Plus, there is no room for extra rules anyway.

WM

[WidowMakers]

Version 7

Changes:
1) Made the legend text more readable
2) Tweaked the wording a bit

[WidowMakers]

And this is a map of teh connections of each Hex group.

More easy to see the flow of troops this way (and work out any bottlenecks people think they see)

[Evil DIMwit]

I like the new wording. And, yeah, there are some minor local bottlenecks but nothing major, especially in light of the nodes.

[john9blue]

Century Gothic! Sexy.

There's a typo in Honey Storage Cell 5.

[cooktheconqueror]

Looks pretty awesome to me but along with everything else it will require some fine tuning.Perhaps some larger areas that may contain some type of quick sand( just an example) or perhaps tunnels?

[pamoa]

some font suggestion for the title hexagonal font / metal on metal

[ustus]

ok, as someone who really wants what WidowMakers originally set out to create (a standard play map with the maximum number of territories) I find all the suggestions that it needs some sort of tactical obstacle slightly annoying. The main reason that there are so many CC maps that I haven't played is because i find such obstacles gimmicky and annoying. I'm not saying this to criticize the maps so much as to say that I'm hoping WM will make the map he set out to make, a nice, simple, standard playstyle map.
please? I'm sure i'm not the only one who likes such maps better...

[WidowMakers]

ok, as someone who really wants what WidowMakers originally set out to create (a standard play map with the maximum number of territories) I find all the suggestions that it needs some sort of tactical obstacle slightly annoying. The main reason that there are so many CC maps that I haven't played is because i find such obstacles gimmicky and annoying. I'm not saying this to criticize the maps so much as to say that I'm hoping WM will make the map he set out to make, a nice, simple, standard playstyle map.
please? I'm sure i'm not the only one who likes such maps better...

No need to worry ustus. I have no intention of making this anything but standard (with the exception of the 5 storage nodes attacking each other)

But instead of just ignoring all of the suggestions, I have explained why we will not be going down that path (mostly because extra rules require space and we don't have much to work with) and also because of the goal to make a very large standard map.

I just keep answering and explaining so that no one can accuse me of ignoring their posts in the future.

WM

[WidowMakers]

some font suggestion for the title hexagonal font / metal on metal

Well I tried and it does not look good (See bonus army text). The font needs to be too big to be able to read it. We need very simple fonts. Any more suggestions?

[WidowMakers]

Thoughts, Comments, suggestions?

[Evil DIMwit]

None at all. Blow it up, code it in, test it around, and ship it out.

[pamoa]

would you mind trying a thin white line in the middle of the impassable bold black line
I'm still concerned about reading the attack line in such a big map with all coloured troops on it