Clan League: Season 2 (2009-2010) - Info, Discussion, Q&A

[Scott-Land]

TSM in.

Contacts.
Primary: Scott-Land
Secondary: Laddida , Kratos644

[Blitzaholic]

The Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Contacts.
Primary for this clan league: Incandenza
Secondary: Blitzaholic


as I will be playing limited games due to my heavy work schedule come later fall, early winter

[Artimis]

Hmmmm, it appears that I've posted in the wrong thread, here it is now:

Subject: Clan League Season 2 [PUBLIC Discussion]

On the off chance there was any ambiguity in our stance, I'm posting to confirm that Flame Whores will be entering the fray(both theoretically and verbally! )


Name: Flame Whores

Primary Contact: Artimis

Secondary Contact: ronc8649

[Fruitcake]

The Bullet-proof Bandits will participate.

Primary contact: Fruitcake

We will advise as to the secondary contact after the next Board Meeting.

BpB secondary contacts appointed are:

General Mojo
nagerous

[reptile]

Legends of War
primary: reptile
secondary: e_i_pi

[danryan]

Clan Name: Outlaws & Highwaymen

Primary Contact: Hopscotcher
Secondary Contact: Pander88uk

We're still in, but please change the primary contact to danryan

Secondary contact will be pander88uk and finchboy

Thanks.

[waseemalim]

Having these limitations on maps makes this unnecessarily complex -- even more complex and tiresome that the 1st clan league. I am not sure that was our intention. Feel like kicking myself for not protesting when this was brought up and not realizing until after we had signed up.

[Incandenza]

Having these limitations on maps makes this unnecessarily complex -- even more complex and tiresome that the 1st clan league. I am not sure that was our intention. Feel like kicking myself for not protesting when this was brought up and not realizing until after we had signed up.

I am finding this to be the case as well.... before it was pretty simple, maybe switching out a map or two or a team or two from home week to home week.... but now it's a howling fucking nightmare, like walking on a tightrope while juggling four flaming chainsaws and five kittens.

[lord voldemort]

Having these limitations on maps makes this unnecessarily complex -- even more complex and tiresome that the 1st clan league. I am not sure that was our intention. Feel like kicking myself for not protesting when this was brought up and not realizing until after we had signed up.

I am finding this to be the case as well.... before it was pretty simple, maybe switching out a map or two or a team or two from home week to home week.... but now it's a howling fucking nightmare, like walking on a tightrope while juggling four flaming chainsaws and five kittens.

id watch that

[Scott-Land]

Having these limitations on maps makes this unnecessarily complex -- even more complex and tiresome that the 1st clan league..

We have like 8 pages of comments for our week 1 schedule-- I'm with you a 100% brother..... said f*ck it.... just make whatever games and ship it out.

[Bruceswar]

I guess I am not noticing it. With that said just keep a simple list of what maps you have used and should be ok.

[Bruceswar]

Having these limitations on maps makes this unnecessarily complex -- even more complex and tiresome that the 1st clan league..

We have like 8 pages of comments for our week 1 schedule-- I'm with you a 100% brother..... said f*ck it.... just make whatever games and ship it out. Nope, he can start right after I start. What's all the fuss about ?

BTW this was to keep clans from using the same 10 maps every week or close to it. This opens up lots of possibilities. Surely 56 maps all season can be found...

[Incandenza]

Having these limitations on maps makes this unnecessarily complex -- even more complex and tiresome that the 1st clan league..

We have like 8 pages of comments for our week 1 schedule-- I'm with you a 100% brother..... said f*ck it.... just make whatever games and ship it out. Nope, he can start right after I start. What's all the fuss about ?

BTW this was to keep clans from using the same 10 maps every week or close to it. This opens up lots of possibilities. Surely 56 maps all season can be found...

Not really the point, and there's a shitload more to it than you're making out. Instead of each clan's point-person putting in a little work at the start of the season coming up with a solid 10-game slate, and tweaking it along the way, each home week has to be created from whole cloth, with completely different maps and settings and teams, all while trying to maximize advantage by using specific maps and settings against particular clans. Plus, and I can't speak for everyone, but I'm trying to ensure that no one person gets swamped with games and that no one gets completely left out. It's not exactly a five-minute job.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that for a clan to consider itself elite, it should be able to at the very least put together a competent dubs team on any map with any settings, but that's not quite as germane to the conversation.

[andy_is_awesome]

I guess I am not noticing it. With that said just keep a simple list of what maps you have used and should be ok.

Yeah, how hard is it to keep a running list?
Put it where all the clan members can see it. And tell them not to be lazy.

More difficult? Yes. But, not unreasonable compared to the amount of work that jp and company are putting in. And then they don't have to hear the whinning when some clan decides to farm the rest of us on City Mogul or some other niche map.

[Chariot of Fire]

Just make the entire season random maps. The advantages of this are manifold:

- Admin don't have to check for any excess of quota on a particular map (a thankless task when you consider how far back they'll have to start dredging once the season has run a while)

- Clan organisers don't have to juggle with chainsaws & flaming kittens (lol btw) and would have a much easier time of it simply putting together teams and settings, thus eliminating the inevitability of delay.

- It would be a better indicator of a clan's all-round ability - to play on all maps.

- It's a heck of a lot of fun (am in a 40 game 'random' challenge and the games have been excellent - no repeats and virtually all big maps). There's an air of excitement waiting to see what you get dealt. Of course, home side's advantage is diminished by not having the ability to select their own maps, but they still get to choose settings.

- Having random maps means each clan doesn't have to maintain a running list of what they've played

- The odds of the same map coming up repeatedly are very slim indeed, and of course there's no guarantee it would favour the home team more than the visiting team

- It's a level playing field for all clans

Makes a lot of sense to me. It would remove a lot of headaches for people and add an extra element of fun/surprise to the whole experience.

[ahunda]

You could join CLA and suggest this for season 3.

My vote is no though.

There are plenty of maps, that are not suited for certain game types.

And then there are those, that I simply don´t like to play.

I am already forced to play certain maps & settings in away games, that I would not play voluntarily.

Don´t want that in my home games too.

[Chariot of Fire]

I am already forced to play certain maps & settings in away games, that I would not play voluntarily.

Are you forced to play these? I'd have thought you had the option to select those you wish to play (and reject those you don't).

I still think the pros outweigh the cons and that overall it's a clan's ability to adapt to any map that makes it worthy of being crowned champions, but that's just me and my penchant for all-round ability rather than one-track mindedness.

[ahunda]

I am already forced to play certain maps & settings in away games, that I would not play voluntarily.

Are you forced to play these? I'd have thought you had the option to select those you wish to play (and reject those you don't).

Last season we had away sets, that consisted almost entirely of Flat Rate games and/or maps I didn´t particularly like. So I played indeed quite a few games, that I would not have joined on the "free market".

I still think the pros outweigh the cons and that overall it's a clan's ability to adapt to any map that makes it worthy of being crowned champions, but that's just me and my penchant for all-round ability rather than one-track mindedness.

If a clan is not versatile on all maps & settings, they will have a hard time in any case, because you simply have to play everything, that is thrown at you in the away games. But then you can at least choose, which teams you put in which game.

[jpcloet]

Let me simplify for those finding this complicated:

You need to pick at least 28 maps to play on if you play each twice. Write them down on a piece of paper or the excel tool that is provided on the order thread. There are tools available to help you. You can play a map twice in one week if you want, but then not again until playoffs. Most of the clan leaders have already planned out the season for their games which does take more than 5 minutes, but I would expect my Minister of War to spend more than 5 minutes on this task since it is important. You can use unlimited Random maps if you want. This is not that complicated.

I see some comments that tell me that how players get the games is the problem. If your clan chooses 7 or 8 maps, then you have a problem, unless the leaders are filling the gaps. If your clan mates choose 20 maps for week 1, then you should have the authority of which 10 you run with for that given week. If you don't have that authority, then your job will be difficult.

[Bruceswar]

Let me simplify for those finding this complicated:

You need to pick at least 28 maps to play on if you play each twice. Write them down on a piece of paper or the excel tool that is provided on the order thread. There are tools available to help you. You can play a map twice in one week if you want, but then not again until playoffs. Most of the clan leaders have already planned out the season for their games which does take more than 5 minutes, but I would expect my Minister of War to spend more than 5 minutes on this task since it is important. You can use unlimited Random maps if you want. This is not that complicated.

I see some comments that tell me that how players get the games is the problem. If your clan chooses 7 or 8 maps, then you have a problem, unless the leaders are filling the gaps. If your clan mates choose 20 maps for week 1, then you should have the authority of which 10 you run with for that given week. If you don't have that authority, then your job will be difficult.

BTW I bolded that part. I do not think random should come into play at all. What if someone makes a quads no spoils random and it comes out to a map that will go stale or take forever... There are many maps that are terrible in certain settings. I also would like to know where my men will be playing.

[jpcloet]

I've come to accept that it is a possibility that some quads could take a long time and I was worried about delaying playoffs due to the quads. Not sure how this will play out to be honest. I plan on using a few randoms overall, but not that many. Hopefully a random quad will not be the deciding factor in the league.

Can someone show me a recent quads/trips/doubles stalemate that would conform to the league settings. I don't think I've ever seen one to be honest. Most of my stalemates have been multi-player games.

If a stalemate happens, the 2 clans can come see me and we'll come to an agreement. We will cross that bridge IF it happens.

[sherkaner]

In a game with only 2 sides (1v1, 2v2,3v3,4v4), the attacker has an obvious advantage. This makes a stalemate vritually impossible, unless both teams are unaware of this. And luck will decide the outcome (just securing 1 continent can shift the balance).
So they could take a bit longer than average, but they'll usually end within 20 rounds.

[lord voldemort]

In a game with only 2 sides (1v1, 2v2,3v3,4v4), the attacker has an obvious advantage. This makes a stalemate vritually impossible, unless both teams are unaware of this. And luck will decide the outcome (just securing 1 continent can shift the balance).
So they could take a bit longer than average, but they'll usually end within 20 rounds.

yer i have yet to see a team or 1v1 game come to a stalemate...its not like other singles where if you attack and dont win then you give the game to someone else

[Seulessliathan]

What if someone makes a quads no spoils random and it comes out to a map that will go stale or take forever...

would be interesting to see a stalemate in a quad .... i can´t imagine this can happen ... any game number where you believe to see a stalemate in a quad?

Edit: I see i´m not the first who is wondering about stalemates in quads^^

[khazalid]

its very unlikely any of the quads will ever go 20+ rounds, one or two bad apples might cause a bit of delay though.

as far as random maps go, it certainly is a headache thats for sure.