Jamaica

[cairnswk]

the nature of the bonuses must be explained more clearly, so that a player knows before he plays whether, for holding 3 foods, he will receive +2 (+2 for every 2 food) or +6 (+2 for any combination of 2 food).

Ian, this is still being sorted out for wording etc, so this is taken on board.

on the main map, the attack line linking fort augusta with fort rupert is too steeply angled, hitting the peninsula at a different point from the line in the inset. also on the main map, one internal border is shown in this area, but none of the others – why not all or none? the western end of the peninsula on the main map is a different shape compared with the same area in the inset (which has a coast that faces south-east).

adjusted

if we have 5 neutrals on the church and fort charles, then few players will be so stupid as to kill 10 neutrals for only +1 bonus, especially since france can attack from the north-east.

well i didn't mean to imply they would be so stupid, nor me for suggesting it, but if it is a bad idea then simply say so, and suggest something better, or say there is worth doing in that area.

do u consider that liverpool has a disadvantageous location, leading u to put only 4 neutrals on its home port rather than 5? i’m not seeing the reason for this either.

Fixed.

i’d like some neutrals to be adjusted, mainly to bring henry morgan and spain slightly closer to the eastern ports, while not letting bristol have such easy access to resources in the south-centre: hanover 2 instead of 3, dry harbour 2 instead of 3, st mary 3 (with bumbo now – good move) instead of 2, annotta bay 5 instead of 6 (otherwise no-one will take it), galleon harbour 3 instead of 4.

Fixed.

possibly replace manchioneal’s sugar with bumbo, which is not so valuable. this means france needs to attack more regions to secure his first bonus, though the eastern area is still fertile ground, especially in spoils games.
ian.

adjusted, but not with wexactly what you suggested. if france comes around via Manchioneal to attack port Royal, then i wanted a sugar and slave bonus available. So Moran has the sugar and Manchioneal has the bumbo.
Thanks for your suggestions.

[cairnswk]

Just curious as to how <8 players has the starting positions...

Player breakdown when you have 8 starting territories is as follows.

2 Players 4 each
3 players 2 each 2 neutral
4 players 2 each
5 players 1 each 3 neutral
6 players 1 each 2 neutral
7 players 1 each 1 neutral
8 players 1 each

thanks for answering that dolomite13. i had started to but pressed the wrong arrow on keyboard and lost the reply.
Anyway. yes good breakdown.

...will they get multiple starting ships? If so, the english/france start is pretty awesome, especially if we end up adding more bonuses to London's PR. (This is my rationale for making the holding all marroons a +4)....

Only small games get multiple breakdowns. Your rationale is good now as i have added the extra bonus as below in V21a.

The church + any 1 slave = +1 would interesting. I suggested +1 auto because a church should generate followers.
...maybe have the church and a slave give a +1 bonus to give the church a worthwhileness?

Oh, ok....i understan your reasoning.
But, would not the church only have followings from the Europeans (London) and converted citizens. Most of the slave had (i beleive) some sort of voodoo as their religion (correct me if i am wrong), and thus my suggestion that the forts and the church was more realistic as the colonials had the belief in the church to make them all powerful.
I know this gives PR an extra bonus, but considering that Ian above had suggested no change to gain that bonus from the neutrals, then perhaps this is something worth fighting for.
And there now on this as stated below.

[cairnswk]

Version 21a.

OK. the original verion of this map had something along the line of coastal attacks via sea routes so that one could use the power of the coastal assaults, very realistic for this period)

It was taken out because the sea routes were attached to ports and that made it easy for initial attacks to close down a game quickly.

I would like to re-introduce it, but this time move the coastal assault routes to non-port territories.
This would add an extra dimension to the game that would enable:
1. coastal territories to assault their neighbours
2. some access to other resources on the coast
3. some gameplay towards what i had envisaged as being coastal areas under attack from the pirates and colonials who didn't own those territories.

What do yo'all think? Worthwhile or simply confusing.
I think it is worthwhile and not confusing; maybe some of these territories would have to adjusted.

[Dexsting]

I like the responses and this version. Will add suggestions/critiques later if I find any.

[Dexsting]

I guess I only have one comment about the new ship routes; with them added, England's start position is no longer as unbalanced, and therefore thier first port should go back to 5 neutrals I think.

[cairnswk]

I guess I only have one comment about the new ship routes; with them added, England's start position is no longer as unbalanced, and therefore thier first port should go back to 5 neutrals I think.

OK, can i see what Ian and other might have to say about this. It sound reasonable though.

[dolomite13]

coastal territories to assault their neighbours

I think I get the jist of this... For example Negril would be able to assault Hanover, Savannah Le Mar, Bluefields, Black River, and St Albans. Rather than just the 2 it borders directly.

==D

[cairnswk]

coastal territories to assault their neighbours

I think I get the jist of this... For example Negril would be able to assault Hanover, Savannah Le Mar, Bluefields, Black River, and St Albans. Rather than just the 2 it borders directly.

==D

Ah not quite, Negril can only assault Henry Morgan or Hanover.
Hanover can assault Dry Harbour, Negril, Savannah, Le Mar, Bluefields, Marlle, and St Albans.
Hanover has sea borders with Dry Harbour and St Albans
The impassable river prevents Negril from assualting Savannah Le Mar

[dolomite13]

Ah I get it now=)

[cairnswk]

Ah I get it now=)

excellent
Now i wonder if onyone else has feedback?

[captainwalrus]

Just a question for you in general, how many Pixels per inch do you have in your maps?

[cairnswk]

Just a question for you in general, how many Pixels per inch do you have in your maps?

The maps up to & including Poison Rome, were 72dpi....these were done in Fireworks
As of these new lot in production now that are worked in Coreldraw. the resolution is 300 dpi.
I am still working through getting the process of the bitmaps into 300dpi, as by default they are only 72dpi.
Does this help?
Why do you ask?

[iancanton]

the new sea routes open up many new possibilities, as they were obviously designed to do. galleon harbour at last has a logical name! does france (not london) need to start with an extra neutral, since he can reach his first bonus by killing only 8 neutrals, while everyone else needs to kill a minimum of 10?

if u hold 2 slaves and 2 sugars, then how much is the bonus?

ian.

[cairnswk]

the new sea routes open up many new possibilities, as they were obviously designed to do. galleon harbour at last has a logical name! does france (not london) need to start with an extra neutral, since he can reach his first bonus by killing only 8 neutrals, while everyone else needs to kill a minimum of 10?

Thanks ian.

if u hold 2 slaves and 2 sugars, then how much is the bonus?
ian.

you should only get +2, i'll be discussing that will dolomite13 to ensure that happens

[dolomite13]

2slaves 2 sugar equals +2 is doable and was how
I was going to code it

[cairnswk]

2slaves 2 sugar equals +2 is doable and was how
I was going to code it

Excellent! Thanks.

[cairnswk]

Changes:

Previous Version 21a


Why the changes:
I started re-researching the pirates and settlements. The entire list of urls from the Jamaica Library on Parishes that i was using was no longer available. So more searching...
I found that Jamaica was settled in several areas by the spanish first, and then the British took over circa 1655.
The island was not really a home for pirates who "invaded" and settled although some Dutch, French and Portuguese pirates did base themselves there early in the history, but made no real attempt to settle.
After the Spanish were kicked out, th British made Port Royal a home base and turned somewhat of blind eye to Privateering and Bucaneering as long as the devil was played out against Spain, France and other colonials that Britain was at war with.
To this end, famour Henry Morgan was a buccaneer and later for his services to the crown was rewarded with Govenorship of the Island. This then enabled him to go onto his rum business.
So now there is 5 pirates and three Spanish and British settlers as stareting postions.
Hope all this makes for a better historical map.

To Do
Re-adjust the neutrals around Port Royal.

Adjusted historical Version 21b

[iancanton]

now that the sea routes make redundant some of the longer overland attacks through multiple regions, cutting the neutrals on st mary and paisley to 2 each will reduce the isolation of columbus and rivero. morgan appears to have an clear edge now, since he'll be the first player to gain spoils (though u have said that u'll be rearranging the nearby neutrals); i prefer the original 6 neutals on port royal. increasing morant's neutrals to 2 will reduce the advantage in 1v1 of the morgan-hamlin combination.

blauvelt has a comparatively hard time of things, while most others have sea routes to help in the search for food and resources. the maroon town neutral needs to be cut to 2.

calico jack has no country associated with him. is this deliberate?

ian.

[cairnswk]

Mmmm. Uni finished for the week, now i can give some time to maps....

now that the sea routes make redundant some of the longer overland attacks through multiple regions, cutting the neutrals on st mary and paisley to 2 each will reduce the isolation of columbus and rivero.

Done.

morgan appears to have an clear edge now, since he'll be the first player to gain spoils (though u have said that u'll be rearranging the nearby neutrals); i prefer the original 6 neutals on port royal.

Well, reverting Fort Charles (Morgan's homeport) as the initial 5 neutrals, morgan would have an easy time gain the gold on POrt Royal and the taking the two bumbos for +1.
IN line with the original 18n between ports this is no onger possible for any other port to F Charles, however, there are three other easier ways to get to F Charles via sea routes and F Augusta.
I am reluctant to change the 3n on Wares and PR Dock as there has to be incentive for Morgan to start moving somewhere, and the large neutrals and on the other gold & bumbo makes it difficult for Morgan to gain an immeditiate large bonus.
Hope this makes sense.

increasing morant's neutrals to 2 will reduce the advantage in 1v1 of the morgan-hamlin combination.

Done.

blauvelt has a comparatively hard time of things, while most others have sea routes to help in the search for food and resources. the maroon town neutral needs to be cut to 2.

Done.

calico jack has no country associated with him. is this deliberate?
ian.

Yes. Pure pirate i beleive.

I've also increased the neutral on Rio Bueno from 1 to 2.

Although i do see one issue that is somewhat unbalanced....any player gaining the route from balck river to montego bay via the maroons will get a very early bonus. if they manage to hold it, it's worth +5 wihtout gaining any other bonus combos.
Any suggestions?

Version 22 below.

Click image to enlarge.

[iancanton]

morgan appears to have an clear edge now, since he'll be the first player to gain spoils (though u have said that u'll be rearranging the nearby neutrals); i prefer the original 6 neutals on port royal.

sorry, that was a mistake. i meant pr docks, not port royal, so bringing down port royal to 3 neutrals again looks more appropriate for the +1 gold cobs bonus.

now that u've moved morgan's home port to fort charles, he's again become somewhat remote. i'm looking into what's likely to happen if wares and pr docks both have 2 neutrals each. more comments later when i've figured it out!

i think blauvelt's maroon bonus isn't actually too easy when compared with others. calico jack, for instance, has a quicker bonus, as does hamlin.

ian.

[iancanton]

morgan is now very hard to reach, so we need wares, pr docks and all of the sea route landing points to be reduced to 2 neutrals (except n4 for annotta bay), to let players attack morgan or the port royal area. the new landing point at rio bueno is much better than before for anyone needing to attack columbus.

2 neutrals on milk river will help to restrain mota, while the n2 on morant can be moved to manchioneal to close off hamlin a little, leaving n1 on morant (which u already had before!) to bring morgan closer to rivero.

Although i do see one issue that is somewhat unbalanced....any player gaining the route from balck river to montego bay via the maroons will get a very early bonus. if they manage to hold it, it's worth +5 wihtout gaining any other bonus combos.
Any suggestions?

maroon town increased to n3 is the most we can do (this also puts 6 neutrals between blauvelt and mota), otherwise blauvelt will really have an uphill task with nowhere to go.

chapelton will rarely be taken at n4 because it can be bypassed. n3 might be better.

after all of the above neutral adjustments, i think every home port is 6 or 7 neutrals from its nearest neighbour and 11 to 14 neutrals from its most distant opposing home port (usually morgan's fort charles), with the nearest bonus being 4 to 6 neutrals away from each home port.

every river also needs to be extended to be like black river, so that the blue lines don't start and stop precisely at the junction of three regions (i expect u did this just to demonstrate the gameplay that u wanted).

is it possible to give to montego bay a "border" with the river, rather than being surrounded by paisley? this is only so it looks better, since u already have port maria surrounded by st mary. a minor point: i can't find any evidence for the paisley name in the area, which was called st james after the english took over from the spanish. the boar is exactly right though!

http://www.mlge.gov.jm/index.php?option ... &Itemid=63

ian.

[cairnswk]

....
is it possible to give to montego bay a "border" with the river, rather than being surrounded by paisley? this is only so it looks better, since u already have port maria surrounded by st mary. a minor point: i can't find any evidence for the paisley name in the area, which was called st james after the english took over from the spanish. the boar is exactly right though!
ian.

Ian, this is where I got Paisley from...the same as other areas, it is named after a town on this 1901 map.

[cairnswk]

morgan is now very hard to reach, so we need wares, pr docks and all of the sea route landing points to be reduced to 2 neutrals (except n4 for annotta bay), to let players attack morgan or the port royal area. the new landing point at rio bueno is much better than before for anyone needing to attack columbus.

2 neutrals on milk river will help to restrain mota, while the n2 on morant can be moved to manchioneal to close off hamlin a little, leaving n1 on morant (which u already had before!) to bring morgan closer to rivero.

Although i do see one issue that is somewhat unbalanced....any player gaining the route from balck river to montego bay via the maroons will get a very early bonus. if they manage to hold it, it's worth +5 wihtout gaining any other bonus combos.
Any suggestions?

maroon town increased to n3 is the most we can do (this also puts 6 neutrals between blauvelt and mota), otherwise blauvelt will really have an uphill task with nowhere to go.

chapelton will rarely be taken at n4 because it can be bypassed. n3 might be better.

after all of the above neutral adjustments, i think every home port is 6 or 7 neutrals from its nearest neighbour and 11 to 14 neutrals from its most distant opposing home port (usually morgan's fort charles), with the nearest bonus being 4 to 6 neutrals away from each home port.

every river also needs to be extended to be like black river, so that the blue lines don't start and stop precisely at the junction of three regions (i expect u did this just to demonstrate the gameplay that u wanted).

ian.

OK. I think i've got all of these, and here is the dust up that I come-up with....land terts only travelling overland

16 Cal. Jack <-> Columbus
16 Cal. Jack <-> Blauvelt
16 Blauvelt <-> Mota
17 Baluvelt <-> Esquivel
22 Mota <-> Columbus
16 Mota <-> Esquivel
18 Mota <-> Morgan
22 Hamlin <-> Morgan
22 Morgan <-> Esquivel
23 Morgan <-> Rivero
16 Esquivel <-> Rivero
17 Hamlin <-> Rivero

Version 23

[iancanton]

the longest overland routes of 22 or 23 neutrals won't be of relevance unless the sea routes are blocked by enemy troops. good move on reducing the kingston harbour neutrals to provide a credible overland route to morgan.

it is named after a town on this 1901 map.

i'm happy enough with this explanation of paisley!

portugal precedes mota, but rivero precedes portugal. can we have these names consistent with each other?

morgan appears to have an clear edge now, since he'll be the first player to gain spoils (though u have said that u'll be rearranging the nearby neutrals); i prefer the original 6 neutals on port royal.

sorry, that was a mistake. i meant pr docks, not port royal

as mentioned before, my statement that i prefer 6 neutrals on port royal was based on a mistake, confusing port royal with pr docks (which is not now a home port). i presume that u'll adjust the number downward by 1 or 2, so there's no reason to delay approval of the gameplay.



ian.

[cairnswk]

...portugal precedes mota, but rivero precedes portugal. can we have these names consistent with each other?

Fixed.

as mentioned before, my statement that i prefer 6 neutrals on port royal was based on a mistake, confusing port royal with pr docks (which is not now a home port). i presume that u'll adjust the number downward by 1 or 2, so there's no reason to delay approval of the gameplay.

Done

ian.

Thanks Ian, for the Gamplay Stamp...I thought it'd be a long way off.

Version 24
I wanted to try and take this somewhere else,. as i wasn't happy with the bonus legends....i don't know if this achieves it, although it certainly makes the map stand out more.

Click image to enlarge.