Jamaica

[The Neon Peon]

Graphics Comments:

1. Kingston and PR should be made flat and simply say "Port Royal" with "Kingston" underneath.

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This is the part where I am probably getting kind of nitpicky about some stuff, feel free to take care of some larger issues that come up in the meantime and revisit when this gets to FF

2. The lines connecting "The Church" and "Port Royal" territory names to the territories seem almost like a temporary fix. Perhaps make them thinner or reduce the opacity.
3. The Swords on either side of the legend fade out nicely in the size aspect, but have you considered using color gradient to fade them out as well?
4. Move "XML dolomite13" to the right.
5. Move your butterfly down a few pixels.

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I will comment on Gameplay later today.

[The Neon Peon]

If I hold a sugar, fish, and coffee, would I get 2 troops or 6 troops? I am 99% sure it is the former, but I have no clue how that would work out in the xml.

Also, can you direct me to or put up a version with some starting neutrals?

[cairnswk]

...
Also, can you direct me to or put up a version with some starting neutrals?

Did you check page 1?

[cairnswk]

If I hold a sugar, fish, and coffee, would I get 2 troops or 6 troops? I am 99% sure it is the former, but I have no clue how that would work out in the xml....

You should only get two troops, but i see where you are coming from with the combinations.
This is a question to be fired at xml dude dolomite13
I wonder with all this skill

I have been programing computers for almost 30 years and have been working extensively with XML for probably 8 or 9 years in my regular programming job.

if he can arise at some easy solution.

[dolomite13]

A fish, sugar and coffee should be +2 ... adding cattle should yield +4 ... all food is part of a single continent and every two of any food would get you the +2 bonus. That is the easy xml.

I am more concerned about the 1 slave plus 1 sugar = +1. but I need to look over xml from a few other maps that have similar mechanics and see what can be done about that. It should be doable.

Nothing in the bonus structure has me worried. I should be able to put together the bonus xml tomorrow or thursday evening for further review.

==D

[cairnswk]

A fish, sugar and coffee should be +2 ... adding cattle should yield +4 ... all food is part of a single continent and every two of any food would get you the +2 bonus. That is the easy xml.

I am more concerned about the 1 slave plus 1 sugar = +1. but I need to look over xml from a few other maps that have similar mechanics and see what can be done about that. It should be doable.

Nothing in the bonus structure has me worried. I should be able to put together the bonus xml tomorrow or thursday evening for further review.

==D

So would you have to list:

all sugar as a continent
Hanover
Bluefields
Rio Bueno
Capelton
Pedro
Stony Hills
Annotta Bay
Mancioneal

then, all fish
Greenwich Town
Kingston Harbour

then, Boars
Paisley

then, Cattle
Savannah
Linstead
Yallahs Bay

then, Coffee
Mandeville
Gordontown

and say one of each equals +1
and use the <overrides> to say:
one of Cattle and Boards = +2
one of Fish and Coffee = +2
etc until all combinations are covered. I think there would be 16 combos, wouldn't there?
Perhaps keeping sugar in the food bonus is too much and give too many opportunities for bonuses?
Should it be removed and kept only to slaves and sugar as a bonus +1,
keeping the food as boars, cattle, coffee, and fish?

[dolomite13]

A fish, sugar and coffee should be +2 ... adding cattle should yield +4 ... all food is part of a single continent and every two of any food would get you the +2 bonus. That is the easy xml.

I am more concerned about the 1 slave plus 1 sugar = +1. but I need to look over xml from a few other maps that have similar mechanics and see what can be done about that. It should be doable.

Nothing in the bonus structure has me worried. I should be able to put together the bonus xml tomorrow or thursday evening for further review.

==D

So would you have to list:

all sugar as a continent
Hanover
Bluefields
Rio Bueno
Capelton
Pedro
Stony Hills
Annotta Bay
Mancioneal

then, all fish
Greenwich Town
Kingston Harbour

then, Boars
Paisley

then, Cattle
Savannah
Linstead
Yallahs Bay

then, Coffee
Mandeville
Gordontown

and say one of each equals +1
and use the <overrides> to say:
one of Cattle and Boards = +2
one of Fish and Coffee = +2
etc until all combinations are covered. I think there would be 16 combos, wouldn't there?
Perhaps keeping sugar in the food bonus is too much and give too many opportunities for bonuses?
Should it be removed and kept only to slaves and sugar as a bonus +1,
keeping the food as boars, cattle, coffee, and fish?

Sort of ...

Because there is no bonus for holding all of any food group you could simply have one big continent called "food".

Code: Select all


- <!--  Continents   -->

- <!--  Food (Any 2 equals +2)   -->

<continent>
  <name>2 Food</name>
  <bonus>2</bonus>
- <components>
  <territory>Hanover</territory>
  <territory>Bluefields</territory>
  <territory>Rio Bueno</territory>
  <territory>Capelton</territory>
  <territory>Pedro</territory>
  <territory>Stony Hills</territory>
  <territory>Annotta Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mancioneal</territory>
  <territory>Greenwich Town</territory>
  <territory>Kingston Harbour</territory>
  <territory>Paisley</territory>
  <territory>Savannah</territory>
  <territory>Linstead</territory>
  <territory>Yallahs Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mandeville</territory>
  <territory>Gordontown</territory>
  </components>
  <required>2</required>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>4 Food</name>
  <bonus>4</bonus>
- <components>
  <territory>Hanover</territory>
  <territory>Bluefields</territory>
  <territory>Rio Bueno</territory>
  <territory>Capelton</territory>
  <territory>Pedro</territory>
  <territory>Stony Hills</territory>
  <territory>Annotta Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mancioneal</territory>
  <territory>Greenwich Town</territory>
  <territory>Kingston Harbour</territory>
  <territory>Paisley</territory>
  <territory>Savannah</territory>
  <territory>Linstead</territory>
  <territory>Yallahs Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mandeville</territory>
  <territory>Gordontown</territory>
  </components>
  <required>4</required>
- <overrides>
  <override>2 Food</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>6 Food</name>
  <bonus>6</bonus>
- <components>
  <territory>Hanover</territory>
  <territory>Bluefields</territory>
  <territory>Rio Bueno</territory>
  <territory>Capelton</territory>
  <territory>Pedro</territory>
  <territory>Stony Hills</territory>
  <territory>Annotta Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mancioneal</territory>
  <territory>Greenwich Town</territory>
  <territory>Kingston Harbour</territory>
  <territory>Paisley</territory>
  <territory>Savannah</territory>
  <territory>Linstead</territory>
  <territory>Yallahs Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mandeville</territory>
  <territory>Gordontown</territory>
  </components>
  <required>6</required>
- <overrides>
  <override>4 Food</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>8 Food</name>
  <bonus>8</bonus>
- <components>
  <territory>Hanover</territory>
  <territory>Bluefields</territory>
  <territory>Rio Bueno</territory>
  <territory>Capelton</territory>
  <territory>Pedro</territory>
  <territory>Stony Hills</territory>
  <territory>Annotta Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mancioneal</territory>
  <territory>Greenwich Town</territory>
  <territory>Kingston Harbour</territory>
  <territory>Paisley</territory>
  <territory>Savannah</territory>
  <territory>Linstead</territory>
  <territory>Yallahs Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mandeville</territory>
  <territory>Gordontown</territory>
  </components>
  <required>8</required>
- <overrides>
  <override>6 Food</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>10 Food</name>
  <bonus>10</bonus>
- <components>
  <territory>Hanover</territory>
  <territory>Bluefields</territory>
  <territory>Rio Bueno</territory>
  <territory>Capelton</territory>
  <territory>Pedro</territory>
  <territory>Stony Hills</territory>
  <territory>Annotta Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mancioneal</territory>
  <territory>Greenwich Town</territory>
  <territory>Kingston Harbour</territory>
  <territory>Paisley</territory>
  <territory>Savannah</territory>
  <territory>Linstead</territory>
  <territory>Yallahs Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mandeville</territory>
  <territory>Gordontown</territory>
  </components>
  <required>10</required>
- <overrides>
  <override>8 Food</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>12 Food</name>
  <bonus>12</bonus>
- <components>
  <territory>Hanover</territory>
  <territory>Bluefields</territory>
  <territory>Rio Bueno</territory>
  <territory>Capelton</territory>
  <territory>Pedro</territory>
  <territory>Stony Hills</territory>
  <territory>Annotta Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mancioneal</territory>
  <territory>Greenwich Town</territory>
  <territory>Kingston Harbour</territory>
  <territory>Paisley</territory>
  <territory>Savannah</territory>
  <territory>Linstead</territory>
  <territory>Yallahs Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mandeville</territory>
  <territory>Gordontown</territory>
  </components>
  <required>12</required>
- <overrides>
  <override>10 Food</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>14 Food</name>
  <bonus>14</bonus>
- <components>
  <territory>Hanover</territory>
  <territory>Bluefields</territory>
  <territory>Rio Bueno</territory>
  <territory>Capelton</territory>
  <territory>Pedro</territory>
  <territory>Stony Hills</territory>
  <territory>Annotta Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mancioneal</territory>
  <territory>Greenwich Town</territory>
  <territory>Kingston Harbour</territory>
  <territory>Paisley</territory>
  <territory>Savannah</territory>
  <territory>Linstead</territory>
  <territory>Yallahs Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mandeville</territory>
  <territory>Gordontown</territory>
  </components>
  <required>14</required>
- <overrides>
  <override>12 Food</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>16 Food</name>
  <bonus>16</bonus>
- <components>
  <territory>Hanover</territory>
  <territory>Bluefields</territory>
  <territory>Rio Bueno</territory>
  <territory>Capelton</territory>
  <territory>Pedro</territory>
  <territory>Stony Hills</territory>
  <territory>Annotta Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mancioneal</territory>
  <territory>Greenwich Town</territory>
  <territory>Kingston Harbour</territory>
  <territory>Paisley</territory>
  <territory>Savannah</territory>
  <territory>Linstead</territory>
  <territory>Yallahs Bay</territory>
  <territory>Mandeville</territory>
  <territory>Gordontown</territory>
  </components>
  <required>16</required>
- <overrides>
  <override>14 Food</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>


==D

[dolomite13]

Here is a sample of what I am thinking about to handle the slave + sugar continents.

For this sample we have 3 slaves and 3 sugar.

I believe that with these overrides you should get assigned continents regardless of what combination of the 3 would have.

I think I can do this with the xml and overrides and it would cover all possibilities.

I am probably missing a few combos but I only spent a few minutes this morning thinking about it I will do a detailed analysis this evening.

==D

Slave 1
Sugar 1
S123
1x--
2---
3---

Slave 2
Sugar 1
S123
1---
2x--
3---

Slave 3
Sugar 1
S123
1---
2---
3x--

Slave 1
Sugar 1
Sugar 2
S123
1ox-
2---
3---

Slave 1
Sugar 1
Sugar 3
S123
1oox
2---
3---

Slave 1
Slave 2
Sugar 1
Sugar 2
S123
1ox-
2x--
3---

Slave 1
Slave 2
Sugar 1
Sugar 3
S123
1oox
2x--
3---

Slave 1
Sugar 1
Sugar 2
Sugar 3
S123
1oox
2---
3---

Slave 1
Slave 2
Sugar 1
Sugar 2
Sugar 3
S123
1oox
2ox-
3---

Slave 1
Slave 3
Sugar 1
Sugar 2
Sugar 3
S123
1oox
2---
3ox-

Slave 1
Slave 2
Slave 3
Sugar 1
Sugar 2
Sugar 3
S123
1oox
2ox-
3x--

[cairnswk]

[...
Sort of ...
Because there is no bonus for holding all of any food group you could simply have one big continent called "food".
==D

..but if you had three food on your large continent
Manchoniel & Predo as one pair
and
Manchoniel and Linstead as another pair
would this also yieid +4 bonus because they were 2 combinations of those three territories?

Also, to pose my question again, would it be better to remove the sugar as a food bonus resource, and leave that in the slaves and sugar group bonus?

[dolomite13]

[...
Sort of ...
Because there is no bonus for holding all of any food group you could simply have one big continent called "food".
==D

..but if you had three food on your large continent
Manchoniel & Predo as one pair
and
Manchoniel and Linstead as another pair
would this also yieid +4 bonus because they were 2 combinations of those three territories?

Also, to pose my question again, would it be better to remove the sugar as a food bonus resource, and leave that in the slaves and sugar group bonus?

Sugar being in both is just fine ... its more of a question for gameplay discussion as any territory can be part of any number of continents. Continents are really just a generic term for groups of territories.

In your example you could give bonuses like that and get +3 for holding 3 territories... or you could use the ability to override continent bonuses to say that your second +2 combo overrides your first +2 combo and that holding all 3 would only yield a single +2 bonus.

==D

[dolomite13]

I do have a question tho ... in the satandard game engine there is a +1 bonus for every 3 territories (minimum 3) ... do you want this bonus removes so the only bonuses you get are those described in the legend?

==D

[cairnswk]

I do have a question tho ... in the satandard game engine there is a +1 bonus for every 3 territories (minimum 3) ... do you want this bonus removes so the only bonuses you get are those described in the legend?

==D

That would be unique i think wouldn't it.
Yes, remove it, but i'll have to notate it in the legend.

[dolomite13]

I do have a question tho ... in the satandard game engine there is a +1 bonus for every 3 territories (minimum 3) ... do you want this bonus removes so the only bonuses you get are those described in the legend?

==D

That would be unique i think wouldn't it.
Yes, remove it, but i'll have to notate it in the legend.

It isn't as unique as you would think I have seen it on several maps and do that on my Monsters! map. But it is quite easy to do =)

==D

[cairnswk]

I do have a question tho ... in the satandard game engine there is a +1 bonus for every 3 territories (minimum 3) ... do you want this bonus removes so the only bonuses you get are those described in the legend?

==D

That would be unique i think wouldn't it.
Yes, remove it, but i'll have to notate it in the legend.

It isn't as unique as you would think I have seen it on several maps and do that on my Monsters! map. But it is quite easy to do =)

==D

Ok. So before i upload another update, how would notate it in the legend?

[cairnswk]

never looked at this before, but i like it. i think auto deploy of 3 on the boats would be more fun though.

Sorry whitestazn88, i hadn't forgotten you....
well, that was reduced to 2 because as soon as someone gets ashore they get a gold bonus.
Call it "Landing Incentive"

[cairnswk]

Version 20.
Some changes....
1. Blade of Sword is now gradiented, i thought the lime green goes better with the colour scheme.
2. Port Royal territories adjusted to give more room to the Warehouse. Fort Charles was showing a Bumbo bonus, so i swaped that to the Warehouse.
3. Port Royal territory now has one of the Food in fish, swapped from Greenwich Town which now has Boar.
4. Border of Kingston more aligned with what happens on the main map
5. London ship moved further away to be separate from the names of Kingston etc.
6. Notation in legend "Standard +1 for 3 territories N/A" meaning that players don't get the +3 for 9, +4 for 12, +5 for 15 standard bonus, that notation can be changed if someone comes up with something better.
7. St Mary border enlarged a lot
8. Bumbo added to St Mary and Milk River so that now every territory has a resource or food, with exception of the Forts.

Still to do: some work on the mountains

Small
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... a_V20S.jpg
Small with neutrals
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... _V20Sn.jpg
Large

Click image to enlarge.

[Dexsting]

I do have a question tho ... in the satandard game engine there is a +1 bonus for every 3 territories (minimum 3) ... do you want this bonus removes so the only bonuses you get are those described in the legend?

==D

That would be unique i think wouldn't it.
Yes, remove it, but i'll have to notate it in the legend.

It isn't as unique as you would think I have seen it on several maps and do that on my Monsters! map. But it is quite easy to do =)

==D

yeah, I mentioned that earlier...this map should definately not have the 3 minimum and 1 per 3 territories.

Thanks for fixing fort Charles too. I think this has worked out too.

The sugar as part of the food group may be a little much with the slaves as well...but I think looking at all the resource placements and such, it works as long as the xml works.

I do still think the Maroons should be +4 though to equalize the west side...not just in general, but in a less than 8 player game in case the drops happen with west Vs east.

[Dexsting]

PS...just curious...why would anyone attack the church or fort charles?

[cairnswk]

PS...just curious...why would anyone attack the church or fort charles?

Good question
At present because they're not worth anything there would be no reason to attack there.
So, can you suggest something that might make them useful, perhaps in their own or a combined bonus
The forts were added as part of the game so that they could attack pirate ships, but that has been removed from the game
I also had something in mind with the chruch and the pirates, but that's long gone from the head.

[cairnswk]

I do have a question tho ... in the satandard game engine there is a +1 bonus for every 3 territories (minimum 3) ... do you want this bonus removes so the only bonuses you get are those described in the legend?

==D

That would be unique i think wouldn't it.
Yes, remove it, but i'll have to notate it in the legend.

It isn't as unique as you would think I have seen it on several maps and do that on my Monsters! map. But it is quite easy to do =)

==D

yeah, I mentioned that earlier...this map should definately not have the 3 minimum and 1 per 3 territories.

Sorry, Dexsting, i must have missed that one.

[dolomite13]

How about...

- All 3 ports are worth +1
- The Church autodeploys +1 every turn.

I also noticed that St Anne's Bay is 4 and PR Docks are 6 ... all other landing spots are 5 ... is this intentional to balance the map?

==D

[cairnswk]

How about...

- All 3 ports are worth +1
- The Church autodeploys +1 every turn.

I also noticed that St Anne's Bay is 4 and PR Docks are 6 ... all other landing spots are 5 ... is this intentional to balance the map?

==D

I'd be interest to hear your reasoning behind that.

Mmm, for me....giving Port Royal another autodeploy might be an additional bonus for London as far as winning goes.
Because London is somewhat isolated down there....once London player gets to PR docks, they are going to have +3 as bonus.
1. there are 2 bumbo for +1 after taking 6 neutrals which both border PR Docks.
2. it would then be easy to take the church for another +1 autodeplay
3. from the warehouses and morgan line it is another 6 neutrals to gain the +1 for 3 forts.
4. then another 6 neutrals to gain the +2 food bonus for Port Royal and Kingston Harbour both holding fish.
5. that gives London a bonus scoop of +3 +1 +1 +1 +2 = +8 while other players are possibly still flopundering around trying to create their own bonuses.
6. by the time another player gains their own bonus, London could be well on the way to conquering the eastern side of the island...possibly not a good thing especially if they don't have any opposition.
7. I'd be in favour all forts & the church for +1, after....
8. because Fort Augusta and Fort Rupert are part of the neutral counts to neighbouring ports, they can't be altered, but Fort Charles can, and so can the Church.
9. anyone coming from Alligator Pond is going to have +6 by the time they reach Kingston Harbour; anyone coming from POrt Maria might have +6 by reaching Kingston Harbour; anyone coming from Port Antonio would have +6/7 by reaching Kingston Harbour.

10. I propose
a. increasing the neutrals on The Church and Fort Charles to 5
b. having the bonus as All forts and the Church +1

[iancanton]

the nature of the bonuses must be explained more clearly, so that a player knows before he plays whether, for holding 3 foods, he will receive +2 (+2 for every 2 food) or +6 (+2 for any combination of 2 food).

on the main map, the attack line linking fort augusta with fort rupert is too steeply angled, hitting the peninsula at a different point from the line in the inset. also on the main map, one internal border is shown in this area, but none of the others – why not all or none? the western end of the peninsula on the main map is a different shape compared with the same area in the inset (which has a coast that faces south-east).

if we have 5 neutrals on the church and fort charles, then few players will be so stupid as to kill 10 neutrals for only +1 bonus, especially since france can attack from the north-east.

do u consider that liverpool has a disadvantageous location, leading u to put only 4 neutrals on its home port rather than 5? i’m not seeing the reason for this either.

i’d like some neutrals to be adjusted, mainly to bring henry morgan and spain slightly closer to the eastern ports, while not letting bristol have such easy access to resources in the south-centre: hanover 2 instead of 3, dry harbour 2 instead of 3, st mary 3 (with bumbo now – good move) instead of 2, annotta bay 5 instead of 6 (otherwise no-one will take it), galleon harbour 3 instead of 4.

possibly replace manchioneal’s sugar with bumbo, which is not so valuable. this means france needs to attack more regions to secure his first bonus, though the eastern area is still fertile ground, especially in spoils games.

ian.

[Dexsting]

Just curious as to how <8 players has the starting positions...will they get multiple starting ships? If so, the english/france start is pretty awesome, especially if we end up adding more bonuses to London's PR. (This is my rationale for making the holding all marroons a +4).

maybe have the church and a slave give a +1 bonus to give the church a worthwhileness?

[dolomite13]

Just curious as to how <8 players has the starting positions...will they get multiple starting ships? If so, the english/france start is pretty awesome, especially if we end up adding more bonuses to London's PR. (This is my rationale for making the holding all marroons a +4). maybe have the church and a slave give a +1 bonus to give the church a worthwhileness?

The church + any 1 slave = +1 would interesting. I suggested +1 auto because a church should generate followers.

Player breakdown when you have 8 starting territories is as follows.

2 Players 4 each
3 players 2 each 2 neutral
4 players 2 each
5 players 1 each 3 neutral
6 players 1 each 2 neutral
7 players 1 each 1 neutral
8 players 1 each