[Abandoned] - Medieval Denmark

[Balsiefen]

Right, here's the long awaited update!

Medieval Denmark V2.3

Click image to enlarge.

Changes
-So many name changes I've lost track Roskilde being the most important
-Fiddled the boarders on syaland (purple) to make things a little more comfortable
-Made a complete bodge of a minimap

Issues
-Minimap! I need all the suggestions and Ideas you can think of-I'm completely stuck on how to get it to work (apart from abandoning it but I quite like the idea)
-Any more heads ups on the names that I've missed from you useful fellows.
-I'm a little worried on whether some of the shorter sea routes are visible, can you guys see them fine?
-Whatever turns up

[Balsiefen]

Oh dear, just thought, now I'm off exams I'll be going on holiday (Scotland and Czech with about a week in between) so updates may be rather slow for the summer.

But I've been missing this project, all work and no maps makes balsie a dull boy

[MrBenn]

Welcome back to the foundry

Please could you update the thread title/first post with the draft stamp - I just had to read back a couple of pages to make sure you already had it

Looking forward to seeing this one develop again...

[Balsiefen]

Thanks Benn, will do

[iancanton]

anund (or anholt) needs to be on the map for neither historical nor gameplay reasons - i dislike the fact that there's no real gap between the jutland and halland/skane sides of the map, since the sea isn't proving to be much of a barrier - so i'd like u to consider replacing this territory with roskilde.

I agree that it has little reason to be there except as a filler (the 42 territs thing). The sea not being much of a barrier is somewhat deliberate as for the danes, travel over sea was probably often more convenient than land. Also I wanted Halland to be slightly harder to hold as four 2 size territs is a little much and it boarders N Jutland which is also an easy territ to take. If I remove it however I need to find somewhere to add a replacement and roskilde isn't really suitable

all three single-region islands in that area have the same type of connection to each side, making that part of the map a bit repetitive. i suggest that we lose anund as a region, then split arus into arus (a small region beside horsnoes, the sea and the next bit) and either hoelghoenoes or dyursoe (the remainder of the current arus region, adjacent to horsnoes, arus, the sea, halmstath and vibiaergh) - these two names come from ur source map in the opening post. mid-jutland will then have 8 regions, as now, but only 6 will be border regions, compared with 7 just now. it remains a difficult hold.

u'll also need to code 3 start positions in the yellow bonus zone.

ian.

[Balsiefen]

Medieval Denmark V2.4

Click image to enlarge.

Changes
Thanks ian, very good stuff. Done pretty much all of it. Still having problems with minimap though. Poor little Anund, It wasn't meant to be

[el-presidente]

I think you need to have the names of the bonus regions on there, not sure why, but I can't think of any map with just a mini map.

perhaps make the water a little darker, since it looks like it is just floating there with no real background.

Why do you use 97 for army sizes? why not 88?

[el-presidente]

also, what is wrong with the mini map as is? in the first post you said it was bad, but I think it is fine.

[Balsiefen]

Thanks elpresidente, I'll do what you said about the seas. As for the minimap,the problem is that the names won't fit readably into the space I have-Take a look at the version of the map on the previous page and you'll see what I mean. And I used 97 because I couldn't find any transparent 88 images (silly I know)

[iancanton]

nice update, balsiefen. we still need some names for the bonus zones.

running the numbers through a spreadsheet, the mid-jutland bonus can be reduced to +6 and the light green islands to +3. however, i prefer ur own +4 bonus for syaland to the +3 that is on the spreadsheet because of its pivotal position in the middle of the map. after the mid-jutland and light green bonuses are reduced and the bonus zones are named, i believe the map qualifies for the gameplay stamp.

ian.

[Balsiefen]

Thanks there, I'll get to that next time I have time The continents do have names but unfortunately, I just haven't found a way of getting them onto the minimap, I may have to revert to the old way of things next update legend-wise.

Actually, looking at it, I'm not sure if I agree with you on Mid jutland. It has 8 territs, 6 boarders onto 4 other continents-oughtn't that be about 7? (it has fewer territs than asia in classic but it is more central and has more borders)

[iancanton]

classic asia has not just more regions, but 4 more, which is quite a lot! it's also more central because it's connected to 80% of the other bonus zones, compared to mid-jutland's 57%. looking again at the map, it appears that a +7 bonus does not unbalance the map unduly and just leads to a different emphasis in a minority of games. the gameplay is fairly robust so, upon reduction to +3 of the light green bonus (which can be broken from only 2 other zones), the stamp can apply whether we have +6 or +7 for mid-jutland.

ian.

[Balsiefen]

Okay, I agree with you then, I'll get onto that now

[Balsiefen]

Right ho.

Medieval Denmark V2.5

Click image to enlarge.

Current map comments
Mid jutland has been reduced to 6 and Fyun and isles has been reduced to 3.
I've switched back to the old bonus box until when and if the minimap becomes viable.
Made a few minor changes with the sea routes which I feel makes them more visible.

To Do
-Minimap! Currently, I can't get the text to fit comfortably in it. I need all the suggestions and Ideas you can think of-I'm completely stuck on how to get it to work (apart from abandoning it but I quite like the idea)
-Any more heads ups on the names that I've missed from you useful fellows.
-Whatever turns up

[iancanton]

now u can polish the graphics.



ian.

[Balsiefen]

That was jolly quick, thanks

[el-presidente]

Yay, I really like this map, and I'm glad it is comming along nicely.
As for the minimap, if you move your signature somewhere else, then move the island of burgendaland up and to the left a bit, (a little inaccuracy is not that bad) then you can have the minimap where it used to be and then put the makes in that bottom corner as long as you can fit in 2 colums (the big yellow one would be either first of last so it would be the space of both coloms) then people could see the minimap and know what the bonus regions are called.

[MrBenn]

Click image to enlarge.

To Do
-Minimap! Currently, I can't get the text to fit comfortably in it. I need all the suggestions and Ideas you can think of-I'm completely stuck on how to get it to work (apart from abandoning it but I quite like the idea)
-Any more heads ups on the names that I've missed from you useful fellows.
-Whatever turns up

Congratulations on the Gameplay stamp

The graphics are looking fairly polished already - although there are a couple of observations that I'd like to make - most of which fall under the "Whatever turns up" category

1. The font that you've used for the legend differs from the font used elsewhere on the map, and isn't that clear. It would probably be better on the eye to use the same typeface all over - with the possible exceptions of the map title and your signature.

2. There is a nice texture on the water, which makes the land look incredibly flat. Perhaps you could add a subtle texture to the land - either the same as the sea, or something parchmenty like you've used for your legend?

3. Some of the paths over the water are difficult to make out - most notably the connections to Utland and Langeland. It might be worth moving the path from Burgendaland to Lund a bit, so it sweeps over the water a bit more, instead of skirting the coast of Albo. This should help to clear up exactly where territories connect.

4. I'm assuming that Thytae doesn't border Harthe/Saling/Himber... Also I'm assuming that Saling/Himber don;t border each other... Is there any way you can exaggerate that inlet, and possibly shrink some of the islands to make those non-borders more apparent?

5. For some reason the borders look quite pixellated around the yellow regions - not too sure what's causing that...

6. All of the text is perfectly horizontal, except for the label for Sweden. You could possibly get rid of the lake near the 'S', which would make room for the text to run horizontally.

7. The previous legend with the minimap was much easier on the eye, although I can see your struggle to fit names on. With a more legible font, is there any chance you could combine the two ideas - minimap with the numbers, with arrows/lines (like mibi used on supermax or iraq) to the name in a list?

That's about it for now

[Balsiefen]

Wow, more stuff now the holiday ends than I've had since july

Yay, I really like this map, and I'm glad it is comming along nicely.
As for the minimap, if you move your signature somewhere else, then move the island of burgendaland up and to the left a bit, (a little inaccuracy is not that bad) then you can have the minimap where it used to be and then put the makes in that bottom corner as long as you can fit in 2 colums (the big yellow one would be either first of last so it would be the space of both coloms) then people could see the minimap and know what the bonus regions are called.

This seems to me a very clean solution to the problem

Click image to enlarge.

Congratulations on the Gameplay stamp

Thanks

The graphics are looking fairly polished already - although there are a couple of observations that I'd like to make - most of which fall under the "Whatever turns up" category

1. The font that you've used for the legend differs from the font used elsewhere on the map, and isn't that clear. It would probably be better on the eye to use the same typeface all over - with the possible exceptions of the map title and your signature.

Will Do.

2. There is a nice texture on the water, which makes the land look incredibly flat. Perhaps you could add a subtle texture to the land - either the same as the sea, or something parchmenty like you've used for your legend?

Actually the texture is over the entire map but it seems the water's darkness makes it stand out. I'll try doubling the opacity of the texture on the land or putting a light browny yellow over it to help the texture stand out.

3. Some of the paths over the water are difficult to make out - most notably the connections to Utland and Langeland. It might be worth moving the path from Burgendaland to Lund a bit, so it sweeps over the water a bit more, instead of skirting the coast of Albo. This should help to clear up exactly where territories connect.

I'll have a fiddle.

4. I'm assuming that Thytae doesn't border Harthe/Saling/Himber... Also I'm assuming that Saling/Himber don;t border each other... Is there any way you can exaggerate that inlet, and possibly shrink some of the islands to make those non-borders more apparent?

The inlet is quite a bit wider than the rivers in most maps but the irregular shape and islands are causing troubles. I'll redraw that bit, making the islands smaller and widening the inlet where it bottlenecks after the island.

5. For some reason the borders look quite pixellated around the yellow regions - not too sure what's causing that...

Damn.
I've been waiting for someone to pick that one up for ages
I've tried everything with it: redrawn, switched layer masks, switched opacity changed lines. But there may be a few things I haven't tried-although they're large jobs.

6. All of the text is perfectly horizontal, except for the label for Sweden. You could possibly get rid of the lake near the 'S', which would make room for the text to run horizontally.

In one of the earlier versions of the map, the label was horizontal (as you can see in my sig actually) but it was changed as it left large amounts of empty space and looked rather surplus. Perhaps I should get rid of labels entirely?

7. The previous legend with the minimap was much easier on the eye, although I can see your struggle to fit names on. With a more legible font, is there any chance you could combine the two ideas - minimap with the numbers, with arrows/lines (like mibi used on supermax or iraq) to the name in a list?

There wasn't really space for that I'm afraid but I think el-presedente has given us a nice solution which probably will work

That's about it for now

Thanks Benn, that was a load of feedback

Anyway, as folks can see I've got a lot to get on to and, as I said, my holidays are just ending so it may take a while for me to get this update done (especially as there's a whole lot of layers to be rebuilt). At least it'll be a big one

UPDATE: My internet at home has broken and I've just started my first year of 6th form. These factors combined mean an update may take a while.

Sorry folks!

[RedBaron0]

Hope you get back to this kiddo, it is looking quite nice, and if you hit the areas MrBenn has outlined, you should be set!

For the texture, you could also cut out what you have and change the direction the texture is flowing for the land, it might make it stand out more along with the coloring of the land darker.

Probably don't need to label Sweden, and for that matter, the HRE too.

Don't be afraid to stretch or erase parts of the map. As long as the land looks like Denmark you're set, you an easily erase superfluous islands that aren't territories. In many cases they will only confuse gameplay.

[Balsiefen]

Sorry I've not had time for a bit folks but today I just decided to have a go at this and to hell with coursework deadlines

Medieval Denmark V2.6

Click image to enlarge.

Changes
-Legend font has been changed to fit in.
-Minimap has been reintroduced and a new bonus box put at the bottom
-Extra texture and colour has been added to the land, all on layers so any tweaks will be very easy to do.
-Sea routes have been redrawn
-The inlet in north jutland has been widened, it should be clear now that the territs don't border
-The pixelation of blekyng & burg appears to have been caused by the Yellow colour having too much contrast with the black border-I couldn't do anything about this so I switched it to a turquoise
-Sweden and HRE labels have been removed.

[RedBaron0]

Now-now, no need to fail on our account... You just have to update once a month to keep the thread active, plenty of maps floating around here for several months to a year.

Looks pretty good, couple things I see. The colors between land and sea are fairly similar which doesn't offer a lot of contrast. The land is definitely a light color, so perhaps try a darker shade of blue for the sea? I realize the yellow didn't work for the one region, but now you've got 3 bonuses that are a greenish color, try another color and see if it works and doesn't give those outlines a pixelly look. Maybe a dark orange?

Again, get to this when you can, DON'T FAIL!

[grandin]

I think you should drop the runes in the mini map. The elder futhark is about 700 years off on a 13th century map.

[MrBenn]

I think you should drop the runes in the mini map. The elder futhark is about 700 years off on a 13th century map.

This actually makes a bit of sense - particularly as they don't really look like they belong there (ie they don't really blend in very well)

Looks pretty good, couple things I see. The colors between land and sea are fairly similar which doesn't offer a lot of contrast. The land is definitely a light color, so perhaps try a darker shade of blue for the sea? I realize the yellow didn't work for the one region, but now you've got 3 bonuses that are a greenish color, try another color and see if it works and doesn't give those outlines a pixelly look. Maybe a dark orange?

Another good point - it's sad to see the yellow disappear - I think a little bit more colour variance should give the map a bit more life... Are you sure it was the colour causing the pixellation? That sounds a little odd to me

[Balsiefen]

Ho folks, I've done red baron's suggestions as well as getting rid of the runes- they were just a quick experiment at a new sig but I wasn't happy with them either.

The yellow thing is an interesting point but its definitely what's causing it: I can use any other colour I like but as soon as it gets too much contrast it pixels out (or more likely, the pixels become visible) anyway, I've got the best orange I can without the pixels coming back and I think its an improvement, I'll post up the new map when I get time