Demonfork...is this farming? [cleared]

[AAFitz]

Demonfork
The accused are suspected of:
Possible farming

Is this farming? I dont know if it technically is, but its obviously joining all new players to grab some points. These players are all on page one of games, and have only the number of games shown...possibly less when the game was played. If its not illegal, then fine with me. But still, I didnt even realize players were still doing this kind of thing after the new rules.

They join your games thats one thing, but someone this highly ranked targeting the newest players seems to be what the anti-farming rule are about. Is this the way around it? wait till they have 10 or so games and pounce?

Game Link / Number of games opponent had at time I posted this
Game 5097048 20 games
Game 5090848 10 games
Game 5084838 12 games... I actually played this poor guy too, but he joined me...
Game 5084662 24 games
Game 5045893 2 games
Game 5073975 30 games
Game 5078898 11 games


Here is a copy of the unwritten rules on the rules page for reference:

Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new members.

[Caymanmew]

wow this is vary bad i never saw farming like this befor

[lt.pie]

Here's one more..
Game 4951532

[AAFitz]

wow this is vary bad i never saw farming like this befor

It actually is hardly the worst farming ever. Im not even sure as I said it is farming in the strictest sense. But I was surprised to stumble on it. I honestly though everyone stopped doing this for the most part. Certainly I expected the 3rd ranked on the site to stop.

[obliterationX]

You can't do anything nowadays without being called a cheater. And I also doubt this is against the rules, as he's simply getting easy wins. Fair play to demonfork. He is not mass playing new recruits, so I honestly don't see where the rule break is, in this instance.

[LarsT!]

Surely King_Herpes and Kemmler were much worse at this... I'd start with them first

[HardAttack]

This is sadly farming whatever it is against rules or not. No sanctions will take place cos the rules' bounds are certain and the accusition does not cover the rule. Again, this is farming in my opinion, is not according to the rules.

[apb23]

LarsT!...how do you know about that? Are you a multi? I would start a new thread...but would need more evidence first.

[jefjef]

I was thinking that my self........ How does he even know King & farming?? 3 game veteran that larT is ....... FOE

[apb23]

hahah...yea

[DarthBlood]

LarsT! has already been reported in a thread (my thread)
check my evidence there, apb

[demonfork]

The accused are suspected of:
Possible farming

Is this farming? I dont know if it technically is, but its obviously joining all new players to grab some points. These players are all on page one of games, and have only the number of games shown...possibly less when the game was played. If its not illegal, then fine with me. But still, I didnt even realize players were still doing this kind of thing after the new rules.

They join your games thats one thing, but someone this highly ranked targeting the newest players seems to be what the anti-farming rule are about. Is this the way around it? wait till they have 10 or so games and pounce?

Game Link / Number of games opponent had at time I posted this
Game 5097048 20 games
Game 5090848 10 games
Game 5084838 12 games... I actually played this poor guy too, but he joined me...
Game 5084662 24 games
Game 5045893 2 games
Game 5073975 30 games
Game 5078898 11 games

It never ceases to amaze me how fucking dumb people are. You actually spent time on this?

Because you seem to have a problem with comprehension, re-read the following very carefully, nothing I have done violates this rule.

"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the New Recruits are more likely to deadbeat. Some players have been farming extensively - even sending hundreds of PMs to the latest members to get them into their games.

This is a gross abuse of the game. It gives the New Recruit "victims" a poor first experience and reduces the chances of them sticking around. As farmers move up the scoreboard it also harms the competitive nature of Conquer Club - the scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques.

In accordance with the desires and feedback of the majority of the community, our rules and as a new leaf for 2009, it is our New Years resolution to make Newbie Farming forbidden. Members who continue this practice will receive point resets and then progressively longer website bans.

This does not mean you will get in trouble for joining a game here and there with many new recruits. We are only talking about the systematic targeting of new recruits.

We have taken the following measures to stop Newbie Farming:

* For New Recruits, we filtered out game options from the join page if they reduce the chance of new players reaching their 1st promotion (see here here and here).
* We shut down any usergroups with a focus on Newbie Farming.
* We are sending individual warnings to the Farmers Guild and select other users who have practiced farming in the past. These should be arriving soon.


If you don't officially receive a warning, consider this it...we may have overlooked you once, but we won't do it again.

Thanks and have a nice day

Notice that the games you listed were with RANKED PLAYERS not new recruits and that they were also freestyle games, rarely are there casual freestyle 1v1 games to join, being a fan of freestyle, I typically join them.

If you don't like it, too fucking bad.

[kiddicus maximus]

Man... this whole thing feels like a witch hunt. 3600 games in a little over a year - that kind of addiction is going to lead to sound strategy... or vice versa. D-Fork wins 60% of his games, regardless of who he plays.

AAFitz has a valid point, but my vote is "no", that shouldn't be considered farming.

[AAFitz]

The accused are suspected of:
Possible farming

Is this farming? I dont know if it technically is, but its obviously joining all new players to grab some points. These players are all on page one of games, and have only the number of games shown...possibly less when the game was played. If its not illegal, then fine with me. But still, I didnt even realize players were still doing this kind of thing after the new rules.

They join your games thats one thing, but someone this highly ranked targeting the newest players seems to be what the anti-farming rule are about. Is this the way around it? wait till they have 10 or so games and pounce?

Game Link / Number of games opponent had at time I posted this
Game 5097048 20 games
Game 5090848 10 games
Game 5084838 12 games... I actually played this poor guy too, but he joined me...
Game 5084662 24 games
Game 5045893 2 games
Game 5073975 30 games
Game 5078898 11 games

It never ceases to amaze me how fucking dumb people are. You actually spent time on this?

Because you seem to have a problem with comprehension, re-read the following very carefully, nothing I have done violates this rule.

"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the New Recruits are more likely to deadbeat. Some players have been farming extensively - even sending hundreds of PMs to the latest members to get them into their games.

This is a gross abuse of the game. It gives the New Recruit "victims" a poor first experience and reduces the chances of them sticking around. As farmers move up the scoreboard it also harms the competitive nature of Conquer Club - the scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques.

In accordance with the desires and feedback of the majority of the community, our rules and as a new leaf for 2009, it is our New Years resolution to make Newbie Farming forbidden. Members who continue this practice will receive point resets and then progressively longer website bans.

This does not mean you will get in trouble for joining a game here and there with many new recruits. We are only talking about the systematic targeting of new recruits.

We have taken the following measures to stop Newbie Farming:

* For New Recruits, we filtered out game options from the join page if they reduce the chance of new players reaching their 1st promotion (see here here and here).
* We shut down any usergroups with a focus on Newbie Farming.
* We are sending individual warnings to the Farmers Guild and select other users who have practiced farming in the past. These should be arriving soon.


If you don't officially receive a warning, consider this it...we may have overlooked you once, but we won't do it again.

Thanks and have a nice day

Notice that the games you listed were with RANKED PLAYERS not new recruits and that they were also freestyle games, rarely are there casual freestyle 1v1 games to join, being a fan of freestyle, I typically join them.

If you don't like it, too fucking bad.

Well, I read that paragraph and it sure seems to me you are targeting new players. And perhaps you missed the title which was a question. In any case, if you dont like being questioned for this behavior, which is obviously, in every way an attempt to strip the newest players of easy points, which is exactly what farming rules are designed to do, well, you can take your own advice.

And as far as "wasting" time on this. Id say this is more of a challenge than joining a guy with 2 games on a freestyle game...and at least there is a point to this...lol

[AAFitz]

Man... this whole thing feels like a witch hunt. 3600 games in a little over a year - that kind of addiction is going to lead to sound strategy... or vice versa. D-Fork wins 60% of his games, regardless of who he plays.

AAFitz has a valid point, but my vote is "no", that shouldn't be considered farming.

This is no witch hunt at all. I simply was asking if this was farming and against the rules. Clearly if Demon is comfortable targeting new players, than he wont care anyways...though he does seem to care rather passionately about pointing out the games he plays for some reason...

Also, sound strategy has nothing to do with it. The fact that he wins so many is the actual point. Its the targeting of new players that is the question. It obviously an effort to nail the newest players before they get a chance to learn the game. I completely agree he could be playing much better players, and the whole point of the thread.

Its not just about protecting new players either, its the mockery of the scoreboard that it creates. And while he says hes following the rules, one of those guys had 2 games, another 5, and many around 10...and God knows how few they had when he joined... The intent is obvious an effort to skirt the rules, if he has in fact skirted them.

[demonfork]

Man... this whole thing feels like a witch hunt. 3600 games in a little over a year - that kind of addiction is going to lead to sound strategy... or vice versa. D-Fork wins 60% of his games, regardless of who he plays.

AAFitz has a valid point, but my vote is "no", that shouldn't be considered farming.

This is no witch hunt at all. I simply was asking if this was farming and against the rules. Clearly if Demon is comfortable targeting new players, than he wont care anyways...though he does seem to care rather passionately about pointing out the games he plays for some reason...

Also, sound strategy has nothing to do with it. The fact that he wins so many is the actual point. Its the targeting of new players that is the question. It obviously an effort to nail the newest players before they get a chance to learn the game. I completely agree he could be playing much better players, and the whole point of the thread.

Its not just about protecting new players either, its the mockery of the scoreboard that it creates. And while he says hes following the rules, one of those guys had 2 games, another 5, and many around 10...and God knows how few they had when he joined... The intent is obvious an effort to skirt the rules, if he has in fact skirted them.

Again you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension...

The rule is against the SYSTEMATIC targeting of new RECRUITS, not new PLAYERS (which is a subjective term)



The rule further states that one can still play MANY new recruits without being in violation the rule...

This does not mean you will get in trouble for joining a game here and there with many new recruits. We are only talking about the systematic targeting of new recruits.

I will join most any casual freestyle 1v1 game that I come across, on the rare occasion that they are posted, it has nothing to do with whether or not they are "new players".

[AAFitz]

Man... this whole thing feels like a witch hunt. 3600 games in a little over a year - that kind of addiction is going to lead to sound strategy... or vice versa. D-Fork wins 60% of his games, regardless of who he plays.

AAFitz has a valid point, but my vote is "no", that shouldn't be considered farming.

This is no witch hunt at all. I simply was asking if this was farming and against the rules. Clearly if Demon is comfortable targeting new players, than he wont care anyways...though he does seem to care rather passionately about pointing out the games he plays for some reason...

Also, sound strategy has nothing to do with it. The fact that he wins so many is the actual point. Its the targeting of new players that is the question. It obviously an effort to nail the newest players before they get a chance to learn the game. I completely agree he could be playing much better players, and the whole point of the thread.

Its not just about protecting new players either, its the mockery of the scoreboard that it creates. And while he says hes following the rules, one of those guys had 2 games, another 5, and many around 10...and God knows how few they had when he joined... The intent is obvious an effort to skirt the rules, if he has in fact skirted them.

Again you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension...

The rule is against the SYSTEMATIC targeting of new RECRUITS, not new PLAYERS (which is a subjective term)



The rule further states that one can still play MANY new recruits without being in violation the rule...

This does not mean you will get in trouble for joining a game here and there with many new recruits. We are only talking about the systematic targeting of new recruits.

I will join most any casual freestyle 1v1 game that I come across, on the rare occasion that they are posted, it has nothing to do with whether or not they are "new players".

Youre the one with reading comprehension problems. Im simply asking if this is farming. And even if it satisfies the letter of your sacred CC law, that doesnt mean its not against the implied rules.

[demonfork]

Man... this whole thing feels like a witch hunt. 3600 games in a little over a year - that kind of addiction is going to lead to sound strategy... or vice versa. D-Fork wins 60% of his games, regardless of who he plays.

AAFitz has a valid point, but my vote is "no", that shouldn't be considered farming.

This is no witch hunt at all. I simply was asking if this was farming and against the rules. Clearly if Demon is comfortable targeting new players, than he wont care anyways...though he does seem to care rather passionately about pointing out the games he plays for some reason...

Also, sound strategy has nothing to do with it. The fact that he wins so many is the actual point. Its the targeting of new players that is the question. It obviously an effort to nail the newest players before they get a chance to learn the game. I completely agree he could be playing much better players, and the whole point of the thread.

Its not just about protecting new players either, its the mockery of the scoreboard that it creates. And while he says hes following the rules, one of those guys had 2 games, another 5, and many around 10...and God knows how few they had when he joined... The intent is obvious an effort to skirt the rules, if he has in fact skirted them.

Again you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension...

The rule is against the SYSTEMATIC targeting of new RECRUITS, not new PLAYERS (which is a subjective term)



The rule further states that one can still play MANY new recruits without being in violation the rule...

This does not mean you will get in trouble for joining a game here and there with many new recruits. We are only talking about the systematic targeting of new recruits.

I will join most any casual freestyle 1v1 game that I come across, on the rare occasion that they are posted, it has nothing to do with whether or not they are "new players".

Youre the one with reading comprehension problems. Im simply asking if this is farming. And even if it satisfies the letter of your sacred CC law, that doesnt mean its not against the implied rules.

f*ck the title, in the body of your post you are a clearly accusing me circumventing the rule and therefore violating the "spirit" of the rule.

I am not breaking any rules nor am I cirumventing them.

You can't be this fucking stupid, therefore I must conclude that you are attempting to create a witch hunt here.

Whatever, if you want to be a psycho stalker and obsess over 5 fucking games that I have played out of 4000 then be my guest.

[sailorseal]

I find it funny how people break the rules, then start swearing and throwing a tantrum when they get caught.

[Mr.Brix]

I would like to know too, if it would be considered farming to go for the 'just-ranked' players. I personally think it oughtta be. (Not that I think DF is farming by joining all fs 1v1 speedies. Though I can't see why he would want to play new/bad players - I mean what's the sport in that? But that's another thing/thread all together.)

AND WHY THE F... DON'T YOU TWO GET A ROOM ALREADY

[demonfork]

I find it funny how people break the rules, then start swearing and throwing a tantrum when they get caught.

I figured that the village idiot would show up here sooner or later.

[AAFitz]

Man... this whole thing feels like a witch hunt. 3600 games in a little over a year - that kind of addiction is going to lead to sound strategy... or vice versa. D-Fork wins 60% of his games, regardless of who he plays.

AAFitz has a valid point, but my vote is "no", that shouldn't be considered farming.

This is no witch hunt at all. I simply was asking if this was farming and against the rules. Clearly if Demon is comfortable targeting new players, than he wont care anyways...though he does seem to care rather passionately about pointing out the games he plays for some reason...

Also, sound strategy has nothing to do with it. The fact that he wins so many is the actual point. Its the targeting of new players that is the question. It obviously an effort to nail the newest players before they get a chance to learn the game. I completely agree he could be playing much better players, and the whole point of the thread.

Its not just about protecting new players either, its the mockery of the scoreboard that it creates. And while he says hes following the rules, one of those guys had 2 games, another 5, and many around 10...and God knows how few they had when he joined... The intent is obvious an effort to skirt the rules, if he has in fact skirted them.

Again you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension...

The rule is against the SYSTEMATIC targeting of new RECRUITS, not new PLAYERS (which is a subjective term)



The rule further states that one can still play MANY new recruits without being in violation the rule...

This does not mean you will get in trouble for joining a game here and there with many new recruits. We are only talking about the systematic targeting of new recruits.

I will join most any casual freestyle 1v1 game that I come across, on the rare occasion that they are posted, it has nothing to do with whether or not they are "new players".

Youre the one with reading comprehension problems. Im simply asking if this is farming. And even if it satisfies the letter of your sacred CC law, that doesnt mean its not against the implied rules.

f*ck the title, in the body of your post you are a clearly accusing me circumventing the rule and therefore violating the "spirit" of the rule.

I am not breaking any rules nor am I cirumventing them.

You can't be this fucking stupid, therefore I must conclude that you are attempting to create a witch hunt here.

Whatever, if you want to be a psycho stalker and obsess over 5 fucking games that I have played out of 4000 then be my guest.

If you dont think you are farming, then why do you take this so personally. Also, as far as being a stalker...You posted 13 games of mine that I played over the course of 6 months, and over 100000 apart... on yours I simply was just surprised to accidentally see that you were joining so many new players and farming them and then posted asking if it was farming. The games I found were all recent games, on your first page of games. I didnt have to look very far at all or do any stalking whatsoever. I honestly had no idea you would get so worked up over my posting that you you joined multiple new players in freestyle games, especially since you dont even think theres anything wrong with it.

Sorry, this has been so tramatic for you. I was just posting to find out if it was indeed illegal. If its not, thats great, carry on with the blessings of CC.

[alster]

I find it funny how people break the rules, then start swearing and throwing a tantrum when they get caught.

It's a stupid thread (one of many lately) to begin with. The farming rule clearly only applies to ???s and not to non-???s of any kind, color or breed.

To be fair though, it's an open question and potentially an interesting discussion. Think it should be held in a different forum though and I also believe that the firm answer should be: no - there's clearly no abuse or rule violation involved in playing non-???s no matter how few games they have started/joined/completed earlier. Any other answer would just make the farming rule too arcane and too difficult to adhere too.

[AAFitz]

I find it funny how people break the rules, then start swearing and throwing a tantrum when they get caught.

It's a stupid thread (one of many lately) to begin with. The farming rule clearly only applies to ???s and not to non-???s of any kind, color or breed.

To be fair though, it's an open question and potentially an interesting discussion. Think it should be held in a different forum though and I also believe that the firm answer should be: no - there's clearly no abuse or rule violation involved in playing non-???s no matter how few games they have started/joined/completed earlier. Any other answer would just make the farming rule too arcane and too difficult to adhere too.

Well perhaps this isn't farming. Perhaps joining players with 5 games is much different than joining those with 4. Though he did join some of those too. In any case, if its not against the rules, then nothing will happen. If targeting so many new players in a short amount of time is seen to be a gross abuse of the game which of course is against the rules..well..thats a different story, and the obvious reason for the thread. My opinion is obvious, but just my opinion. Its nothing against Demon personally either. I stumbled on what looked like some rule breaking or at least bending, so I posted. If Im wrong, Im sorry for the anguish this seems to have caused him. But I never in a million years expected a player who was joining new players and clearly farming them repeatedly, would ever even mind the implication. Its an obvious choice to do so, and I just assumed he knew what he was doing. If it never occurred to him that this might be considered farming by some, well, there's nothing I can do about that. If he hasn't broken any rules, none of it matters anyways.

[alster]

Well perhaps this isn't farming. Perhaps joining players with 5 games is much different than joining those with 4. Though he did join some of those too. In any case, if its not against the rules, then nothing will happen. If targeting so many new players in a short amount of time is seen to be a gross abuse of the game which of course is against the rules..well..thats a different story, and the obvious reason for the thread. My opinion is obvious, but just my opinion. Its nothing against Demon personally either. I stumbled on what looked like some rule breaking or at least bending, so I posted. If Im wrong, Im sorry for the anguish this seems to have caused him. But I never in a million years expected a player who was joining new players and clearly farming them repeatedly, would ever even mind the implication. Its an obvious choice to do so, and I just assumed he knew what he was doing. If it never occurred to him that this might be considered farming by some, well, there's nothing I can do about that. If he hasn't broken any rules, none of it matters anyways.

I might be wrong. but as far as I remember the mods/hunters have rather clearly stated (in connection to previous C&A threads re farming) that "farming" in the sense of the farming-is-not-cool rule only applies to ???s and not to anyone with 5 or more games under his/her belt.

The fact that demonfork is a drama queen set aside, I believe he hasn't performed "farming" under the anti-farming rule. That people may object on other grounds, well, that's a different matter I guess. There're a lot of opinions out there and one may very well brand demonfork a farmer if one wishes, but that seems more like something for the General or Q&A forums.