Gutshots [Noted]

[apb23]

Accused:

Gutshots




The accused are suspected of:

Other: <Noobe Farming>



Game number(s):

Game 5039593
Game 5039683
Game 5039687
Game 5039711



Comments: He seems like a perfectly nice guy and does not deserve any harsh punishment. But he just joined four 1v1 games, all of which are against new recruits. I simply feel that a warning should be issued, and if I am wrong, I whole-heatedly apologize to gutshots.

[apb23]

Also, I just found game number 5030568, in which gutshots joined a game with a new recruit yesterday. As I said before, I only feel that a warning should be issued, as besides these 5 recent games, he plays against very good competition.

[ratdig04]

5 games is not noob farming. I will play against noobs if its a map and setting that I like. Noob farming is when you go out of your way to do it multiple times. I just looked quick...didnt he play like 6500+ games? 5 in a row just doesnt cut it for me.

[apb23]

You could say that...but to join four games created within minutes of each other all against new recruits...well its pretty questionable. I believe i noted before that I do not want him to be punished, but simply warned. He plays against great competition, but I simply feel this should at least noted.

[apb23]

Also, he just joined 5039888 and 5039883, both of which are against new recruits.

[azezzo]

its not exactly farming, when you lose to the noobs Game 5039687

[apb23]

But it is an attempt at it...and he beat that noob earlier as well

[ratdig04]

So, I took a quick look.(very quick) On his first four pages I couldnt 11 games in which it was 1v1 with a new recruit. Then I quickly counted the amount of games on the first page. I counted 90. So 90 x 4 = 360. Out of 360 games hes played 11 with new recruits. Which is hardly enough to be considered farming. I would suspect a warning or even noted NOT being issued.

[apb23]

That is not the point, the point is that he has joined games with new recruits 6 times today, all of which were almost consecutively. Also, gutshots plays a lot of games, but I am focusing on what he did earlier today.

[ratdig04]

And what im saying is 6 games is not enough to be considered farming. I think your missing my point. Im not saying he didnt do it, im just saying 6 games in the grand scheme of things is not large enough to be considered farming. If he does...maybe 20-30 more, then maybe. Even still, the percentage of games against new recruits would be minimal.

[apb23]

I completely understand what you are saying, and in a sense you are right. But I feel that a warning should be issued because gunshots joined these six games against these new recruits within minutes of each other. That means that he most probably searched up "Waiting for players, 2, public", and when he saw these games with new recruits he joined them, thinking that they would be easy wins and easy points.

[ratdig04]

I completely understand what you are saying, and in a sense you are right. But I feel that a warning should be issued because gunshots joined these six games against these new recruits within minutes of each other. That means that he most probably searched up "Waiting for players, 2, public", and when he saw these games with new recruits he joined them, thinking that they would be easy wins and easy points.

Or he thought, I like these maps, and I like the rules. I think I will choose this game. In one of the games he even says, I decided to give you another shot.

[mkohary]

So, we can't join games with new players unless we're new ourselves? In the rules, it says, "...systematically "farming" new members..." (emphasis mine). 6 games out of thousands is hardly systematic.

Besides, I don't see why anyone should go out of their way to avoid games with new players, either. If it's a map I like and rules I like, I'll join without even looking at who is playing. Since this is an "unwritten rule", even according to the official rules, and is obviously a judgement call, I don't see how a few games in the course of a single day - even all joined in a row - can be considered "farming" of any kind. It would have to be a trend over many days or weeks, and newbies would have to comprise a large majority of his opponents - that's what farming is.

[apb23]

So, we can't join games with new players unless we're new ourselves? In the rules, it says, "...systematically "farming" new members..." (emphasis mine). 6 games out of thousands is hardly systematic.

Besides, I don't see why anyone should go out of their way to avoid games with new players, either. If it's a map I like and rules I like, I'll join without even looking at who is playing. Since this is an "unwritten rule", even according to the official rules, and is obviously a judgement call, I don't see how a few games in the course of a single day - even all joined in a row - can be considered "farming" of any kind. It would have to be a trend over many days or weeks, and newbies would have to comprise a large majority of his opponents - that's what farming is.

I would call joining six games with new recruits literally within in minutes systematically farming. And no, I am not saying that you should go out of your way to play new recruits, but when he joined those two feudal war games (btw...his last two previous feudal games were also against a noob), the last time he had played it (besides when he played against diety, whose completed 6 games), was May 1. So he has not joined the many many feudal games in between then. Out of his thousands of games, he has only played on Feudal War 58 times (which is a very small amount). He does play classics quite a lot, but a fair amount of players do. To look back on that feudal game, that was also the only time he has played a 1v1 game at feudal with escalating spoils and adjacent reinforcements. In fact, he has only played 26 games with escalating spoils and adjacent reinforcements. The settings on the classics map are very popular. I simply feel that gutshots receives a warning.

[ratdig04]

Maybe he likes Feudal but doesnt think he has a lot of skills on the map but wants to learn. It probably wont help a lot getting pounded within 3 rounds by the pros. He sees a guy that he has a better chance of competing with, so he chooses it. Purely speculation, but I stand by my 6 games in a row out of thousands is nothing compared to what others do.


BTW, I think players who only play triples/quads on tough maps is more of a "farming" then this.

[apb23]

Maybe he likes Feudal but doesnt think he has a lot of skills on the map but wants to learn. It probably wont help a lot getting pounded within 3 rounds by the pros. He sees a guy that he has a better chance of competing with, so he chooses it. Purely speculation, but I stand by my 6 games in a row out of thousands is nothing compared to what others do.


BTW, I think players who only play triples/quads on tough maps is more of a "farming" then this.

In the triples/quads game part, you are very incorrect, as that is mostly low ranks joining high ranks' games. This is different. Gutshots is joining their games. Also, if he likes the map, why not set up a game with a friend to help him learn? If he thought that a player who has played thousands of games would have any problem with playing a player who has played 0 games could lose FEUDAL, then he is greatly mistaken. I simply believe that this case should be noted, as that is all that gutshots deserves.

[ratdig04]

I know it isnt farming, I still think high ranks using tough maps and only low ranks joining is still farming. They are just doing it against players who arent new to the site, but just arent very good in general.

[apb23]

I guess...post that issue (even tho I don't rele agree) in general discussion...maybe you'll get more support there.

[Rabid bunnies]

Interesting.

I will admit that I find alot (most in fact) of my games by going:

- Game Finder
- 2 player
- Casual
- Freestyle


There are very few maps I won't play. For this reason, I often find myself instant-clicking a join-game button under those conditions. I'm not even bothering to look at the rank. I'm looking at:

"Someone's hosting a 1-1 freestyle game? Sweet."

If several of those games were to be ?s... I have to tell you that I would not stop joining 1-1 freestyle games for fear of people thinking I'm intentionally targetting them.

This is different from a player I have been told about (Klobber). This player intentionally grinds his competition down so that he can exclusively play new players at all times.

This seems like a case where targetting "any" game in 1-1 competition is not a crime but if you get a situation where many of the "any games" you join have ?s in them, you look suspicious.

I for one don't think he's doing anything wrong. I could play 50 majors in a row 1-1 if I find 1-1 freestyle games, I could play 50 Captains... I could play 50 ?s...

It almost seems like if another 1-1 game pops up being hosted by a ?... in order to avoid further suspicion from you, Gutshots would theoretically have to pass on it... to simply not join to avoid looking weird.

In a game where any player can win with the right dice or right drop, rank doesn't bother me at all unless it's a "Klobber-system" of directly evicting anyone from competing above a certain level. Avoiding hosted games at any point because of someone's rank is pointless.

I would not let fear of "noob-farming" keep me from joining 1 game with a new recruit... I would not let it keep me from joining my 101st game with a new recruit. I love freestyle competition, especially 1-1. The picture to the left of the name doesn't bother me. Does it bother you?

Jasmine

[apb23]

No...but that is not the point. After doing some research...Gutshots has played 3397 1v1 sequential games, and only 387 1v1 freestyle games. Hence he obviously enjoys playing sequential must more than freestyle, so that is not an option. And as a mentioned before, the fact that he likes feudal or the settings in that game is also not option. Therefore, the only thing appealing about those games were the question marks on the side. Also, in regards to the classics, he joined those games within seconds of each other, two of which he probably thought he would easily win again after beating the same noob the first time. In regards to game number 5039683, he has only played 10 total games on imperium romanium, and only 6 1v1s, one of which he would b/c a new recruit deadbeated and missed too many turns.

Simply based off of these facts, I ask that gutshots is either warned or this case is noted, nothing more.

[Rabid bunnies]

It just seems very circumstancial to me hun. You are assuming to know what he's thinking while joining games and wanting to warn him about noob-farming?

I understand you aren't pursuing a harsh punishment and I appreciate the genuin attitude of understanding you are giving him but I would like to know what you would like to see him do?

Should he stop joining games with new recruits? The message here is a little mixed. Is he or is he not noob-farming? Based on just the "facts" you don't know that anybody thinks "new recruits" are equivalent to "easy points" he could just as easily be taking a gamble since losing to a new recruit would cost him more points.

I just joined 2 games back to back with CinammonMandy (1-stripe) simply because they were there and I had 2 free game slots.

This seems like a very grey area because you want him warned for something that he can't improve on without seeming severe. Do you want him to stop playing ?s as a result of a warning?

This is a bit of a 1-sided coin. You want him warned for noob-farming... but if he were to ask if he should avoid new players you would say: "No... you don't have to avoid new players... just don't join them so much." which is a very mixed message.

Jasmine

[ratdig04]

I guess...post that issue (even tho I don't rele agree) in general discussion...maybe you'll get more support there.

I dont have an issue with it. I was just saying I think thats more of a farming technique then what gutshots did.

[king sam]

apb as I have seen it in the many "noob farming" accusations that have came through here from earlier days is the general ruling handed down is only handed down if as already stated a Systematic process can be determined being used.

Looking though his games I have to agree that it may just look like recently he has been targeting new recruits but in the grand scheme of things he is well on the other side of the fence.

The most that should come out of this is a friendly reminder that hey "recently we have seen you in games more often then not with new players, make sure you don't take advantage of this and join an excessive amount under the premises of them being easy wins, as their is a policy that outlines this to be against the rules"

But then again you could have said all that to him instead of blasting him in a forum like this for an offense that he in all reality hasn't done yet.

Good Day,
King Sam

[apb23]

apb as I have seen it in the many "noob farming" accusations that have came through here from earlier days is the general ruling handed down is only handed down if as already stated a Systematic process can be determined being used.

Looking though his games I have to agree that it may just look like recently he has been targeting new recruits but in the grand scheme of things he is well on the other side of the fence.

The most that should come out of this is a friendly reminder that hey "recently we have seen you in games more often then not with new players, make sure you don't take advantage of this and join an excessive amount under the premises of them being easy wins, as their is a policy that outlines this to be against the rules"

But then again you could have said all that to him instead of blasting him in a forum like this for an offense that he in all reality hasn't done yet.

Good Day,
King Sam

Thank you KS. I completely agree with you, as I only ask that he be warned to not continue this recent streak. In regards to telling him myself, I did not feel comfortable with doing that because I have no relationship with him, and would have felt that to be too personal. I have tried not to blast him, but only asked that he be warned or that this case is noted.

[king sam]

Thank you KS. I completely agree with you, as I only ask that he be warned to not continue this recent streak. In regards to telling him myself, I did not feel comfortable with doing that because I have no relationship with him, and would have felt that to be too personal. I have tried not to blast him, but only asked that he be warned or that this case is noted.

No prob.. good luck buddy