alstergren-ratings blackmail. [noted]

[TruePurple]

Accused:

alstergren

The accused are suspected of:
Other: Ratings blackmail.

Game number:

Game 4769224

Comments:

This PM sent to me by alstergreen says it all

Saw that you handed down a 3-3-3 rating. Have to admit, find it a bit rude since it was a perfectly regular game. 3-3-3 is considered a bad rating to hand out. If you don't wanna rate properly, just don't rate. Or just rate people you've played with a few times. But, as a precaution I have a 1-1-1 rating on you. If you withdraw yours, I'll similarly remove mine. Quid pro quo.

BTW I wanted to see how the withdraw system worked, so I clicked on one(maybe two since I wasn't sure if the first one worked), which accidently turned out to be alstergren's. I hope that doesn't hinder your investigation too much. If you can access my PM and see that he did send me that PM, that should be proof enough I think.

@alstergrens. 3 is average you #@$!, you have no right to tell me how to vote.

[nagerous]

Well it is poor sportsmanship, but a very very minor form of poor sportsmanship..

I imagine the advice will just be foe list and change your ratings to 1,1,1 if you want

The rating system actually works that the person you rate cannot rate you unless you are in another game with him.

If you are though, this gives you the opportunity to change his rating to 1,1,1 as a 'precaution'

[oVo]

3-3-3 is considered a bad rating to hand out.

Actually a 3-3-3 is simply average, but certainly not much of a concession to a player
who has just given you a decent match.

I agree with TruePurple that 2-2-2 is a poor rating and 1-1-1 is a bad one.

If you withdraw yours, I'll similarly remove mine. Quid pro quo.

This seems like a reasonable request, not blackmail.

[Timminz]

Change the 3's to 1's.

Show him that crying, and bullying aren't effective ways of getting what he wants.

[EagleofGreenErth]

What do you expect? The ratings system is flawed and mods do not remove ratings that are uncalled for. As a precaution I also used to leave all 1s for people that I thought would give me shit ratings for unwarranted reasons, then would withdraw if they didn't rate me. Its the only way to ensure that you arent given uncalled for ratings without having a fight back.

But I hardly rate these days.... and recently I got 1 stars from some person who complained the entire game that I was lucky. I was nice in return but he still gave me shit ratings. I wish now I had left him all 1s as a precaution....

[mgconstruction]

Blah....ratings are over rated anyway :0)

[Fireside Poet]

Wear your bad ratings as a badge of honor as not everyone gets them.

[devinsaway]

Wear your bad ratings as a badge of honor as not everyone gets them.

thats a good quote

good job FP

[owenator]

I've played against alstergren and I've never had any hostilities from him. If you want to talk about giving bad ratings you should look no further than yourself. Game 4769224 shows how you accused one of your players having a secret alliance with the opposing team. Then you posted a thread to make your accusations known. Gustaf Wasa intervened stating that this was not the case and advised you to "relax". I guess you didn't like his comment because you gave him 3/5 all the way across for his ratings? I find that to be a perfect example of hypocrisy. I have never seen alster nor Gustaf to show any signs of integrity issues. You might want to cool down a bit and not let your temper get the best of you.

owenator

[Rabid bunnies]

I agree with owenator. What makes your 3/5 more substantial than his 3/5?

Jasmine

Edited: ''My english has just been corrected by Owenator. Thank you sir! *mimmics Arnold (I'm not even going to spell his last name) from Terminator: "I've been... owenated.

[alster]

Accused:

alstergren

The accused are suspected of:
Other: Ratings blackmail.

Game number:

Game 4769224

Comments:

This PM sent to me by alstergreen says it all

Saw that you handed down a 3-3-3 rating. Have to admit, find it a bit rude since it was a perfectly regular game. 3-3-3 is considered a bad rating to hand out. If you don't wanna rate properly, just don't rate. Or just rate people you've played with a few times. But, as a precaution I have a 1-1-1 rating on you. If you withdraw yours, I'll similarly remove mine. Quid pro quo.

BTW I wanted to see how the withdraw system worked, so I clicked on one(maybe two since I wasn't sure if the first one worked), which accidently turned out to be alstergren's. I hope that doesn't hinder your investigation too much. If you can access my PM and see that he did send me that PM, that should be proof enough I think.

@alstergrens. 3 is average you #@$!, you have no right to tell me how to vote.

You ranted in the game chat against everyone incl. your own team, accussed us of cheating and have a history of ridiculous rating. I believe that my rating of you is very appropriate since I don't really like you or enjoyed the game (this stupid thread aside which, on its own, warrants a shitty rating of you). However, as noted in my pm, I prefer to have the ratings deleted than having two bad ratings out there (and this goes for everyone, not just for you). The circumstances may be a bit odd, but since you withdrew your rating of me I will of course honor my suggested deal to mutually withdraw the ratings and strike my rating of you. *deleted* Thanks mate.

[TruePurple]

It is highly inappropriate in my view to use negative rating threats as a way of leveraging positive ratings. That is abusing the rating system.

It is also inappropriate to rate people negatively because they posted a cheater thread against you, like you suggest in your last post. That is just out and out retaliation.

Considering it all, it is funny, you would accusing me of not knowing how to rate

People, 3 is a average rating! lacking anything good or bad happening in the game, that is what someone should get. I can't help that so many like idiots just use all 5's or all 1's. That doesn't mean I need to follow suit.

Also I only accused one person in that thread owenator, and for good reason. But this thread is not about that.

[Rabid bunnies]

It is highly inappropriate in my view to use negative rating threats as a way of leveraging positive ratings. That is abusing the rating system.

It is also inappropriate to rate people negatively because they posted a cheater thread against you, like you suggest in your last post. That is just out and out retaliation.

Considering it all, it is funny, you would accusing me of not knowing how to rate

People, 3 is a average rating! lacking anything good or bad happening in the game, that is what someone should get. I can't help that so many like idiots just use all 5's or all 1's. That doesn't mean I need to follow suit.

Also I only accused one person in that thread owenator, and for good reason. But this thread is not about that.

I would be one of those "idiots" that use all 5s or 1s hun. I do it for the simple reason that whenever I rate someone, I need to ask myself: "What could this person have done to deserve a better rating?"

The winning or losing shouldn't affect the rating and I'll tell you why. If dice are really bad for an individual at a given point, then the best strategic move will fail miserably and almost look laughable. Aside from attitudes which are blatant. The cursing, the swearing etc... the rating truly is subjective.

If someone plays the best they can and get horrible dice or no cooperation from others, does that mean they only deserve "average" rating given they've played the best they could? Come on now.

This is why I rate 5s or not. Someone who is pleasant and plays their turns with their strategies show me that they are playing the game to the best that they can. I can't rate them badly for having bad dice.

Jasmine

[owenator]

It is highly inappropriate in my view to use negative rating threats as a way of leveraging positive ratings. That is abusing the rating system.

It is also inappropriate to rate people negatively because they posted a cheater thread against you, like you suggest in your last post. That is just out and out retaliation.

Considering it all, it is funny, you would accusing me of not knowing how to rate

People, 3 is a average rating! lacking anything good or bad happening in the game, that is what someone should get. I can't help that so many like idiots just use all 5's or all 1's. That doesn't mean I need to follow suit.

Also I only accused one person in that thread owenator, and for good reason. But this thread is not about that.

1) http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=86289&p=2021612#p2021612
2) http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=86454
3) this one.

Your point being? I think you've accused three players now, but this thread isn't about how many people you've accused. It's not about that. By the way, upon checking your games - although very limited, you have this habitual routine in multiple player games. This would be your complaints against players attacking you, then advising them to go attack another. Proposing a truce, but not underlying the conditions of it. Once it's served YOUR purpose, you begin to attack but not after 'cleverly' typing it into the game chat stating that the truce is now over. Just my opinion, but you're a bully in the games. You attempt to manipulate and even 'con' players. When something goes awry, you accuse them of something. I think that shows poor gamesmanship. Perhaps you should come and join me in one of my 6 player Feudal games one time. And don't mind the map rank for me for that particular map. I think it's inaccurate. Anyways, back on topic - perhaps you may want to rescind your allegations since alster has already retract his ratings of you. That, to me - is pretty much the best 'apology' you're going to get. Otherwise, I'd not want to waste our investigators time and potentially receive a warning in turn.

owenator

[alster]

It is highly inappropriate in my view to use negative rating threats as a way of leveraging positive ratings. That is abusing the rating system.

It is also inappropriate to rate people negatively because they posted a cheater thread against you, like you suggest in your last post. That is just out and out retaliation.

Considering it all, it is funny, you would accusing me of not knowing how to rate

People, 3 is a average rating! lacking anything good or bad happening in the game, that is what someone should get. I can't help that so many like idiots just use all 5's or all 1's. That doesn't mean I need to follow suit.

Also I only accused one person in that thread owenator, and for good reason. But this thread is not about that.

1. I kind of agree with what you're saying about the 1-5 system. 3 says indeed average, but in practice this doesn't mean anything since people tend to rate either 5s or something very bad. Personally I find, against this background, 3s to be a rude rating to hand out. Thus, I more or less only use 5s or 1s when rating. The 2-4s are just meaningless. People I perceive as rude or that hand out a shitty rating themselves, I don't mind handing out 1-1-1s to.

2. I suggested IMHO a fair deal putting the mutually bad ratings aside (each set for reasons of our own after the game a few weeks ago), if this is a threat it seems that one couldn't have a discussion about ratings without having to fear being slapped with an abuse charge. I've had plenty of discussions like this, you're one of the few who has seen it like that. But it's noted and I'll put you on ignore. However, with hindsight I should have let you keep your rating, you obviously deserve it.

[xMBKx]

TruePurple,
Alstergren joined this site 3 years before you and has played thousends of games. You are a new player. Don't mess up with anybody's ratings. Team 1 won the game. You should give a good rating or just don't rate, but don't F**K with ratings of these players!!

[Gustaf Wasa]

Change the 3's to 1's.

Show him that crying, and bullying aren't effective ways of getting what he wants.

"Crying and bullying" from Alster's side now? Right. Certainly not from Purple's side, the seriously paranoid newb who thinks everyone is against him in a conspiracy, including his own teammates, and brings it up in team chat, game chat, and makes a thread in the forum hoping to see mod intervention. Alstergren has every right to finally give him bad ratings; we showed great patience with him, but he still wanted to punish us for winning.

[Gustaf Wasa]

How about this: TruePurple has only eight finished games, and he has already made two threads in the Cheating & Abuse forum about a game where he lost.

Take a look at his games, he keeps complaining about the moves other players make in almost every one of them. For example: Game 4810380 "Eh? Desda didn't break zombies hold? Bah, you had a perfect chance desda, and you wasted it on trying to take the tropics. Which I might add, you are far from controlling with two other players there" "Really stupid movie desda IMO." "potatoes, how come your targeting me?" "Why are you targeting me bigpotatoes?"

...And so on. This guy just doesn't know when to shut up.

[lancehoch]

Guys, the thread is about alsergren, not true purple. If you want to accuse true purple, make a new thread.

[king sam]

Guys, the thread is about alsergren, not true purple. If you want to accuse true purple, make a new thread.

done

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=88098

[owenator]

Okay, since this IS about alstergren, let's provide some example's of his a) integrity, b) gamesmanship, c) honour and respect for other players. See the example's below.

Game 3241736:

2008-09-15 14:16:19 - alstergren: forget to say "howdy and gl" though
2008-09-15 14:16:38 - alstergren: sorry about that, it always feels akward to say after you had such a great attack dice like I had in round 1
2008-09-15 14:18:13 - alstergren: btw owenator - sorry about France as well....
2008-09-15 14:26:24 - OleWar: yeah alstergren, but you still didn't mind saying it though.
2008-09-15 14:27:29 - alstergren: nope, I try to make some kind of formal greeting in each game, it's always nicer that way. But, for the protocol, it's a greeting, not to rube anything in

Game 3241759:

2008-09-18 01:28:18 - alstergren: gg guys - well, not yellow's fault (at least not what I could see) - just that the dice was cruel against him in round 1, hard to fight the dice

Game 4830006:

2009-05-12 17:31:29 - alstergren: oh, gg fellas, just saw that I had been taken out

At best for alster's e-mail...he should be noted, but it was warranted for TruePurple's unjust ratings of alster and Gustaf. This is a waste of time for lance. Alster is a great player and this is the first time I've heard about him being dishonourable let alone having integrity issues. Which is why I've provided one game where I wasn't in it, so that my statement wouldn't be biased. The last game provided shows his honourable intentions, even AFTER being eliminated. No hostilities whatsoever. This in my honest opinion should be a cleared case for alster.

owenator

[alster]

Guys, the thread is about alsergren, not true purple. If you want to accuse true purple, make a new thread.

Well then. Just to make a final remark; I don't see any abuse such as threats or blackmail by trying to resolve an obvious rating dispute (in whatever way they arose) in an amicable way by pm. Nor do I see anything in the rules about this, quite the opposite, the rating section seems to endorse that people discuss these things between themselves instead of whining in the C&A forum. Perhaps it was worded badly on my part, but the game was archived and true purple couldn't be coerced into doing anything here (here he got a bargain though, had I been a misanthrope, I would have laughed seeing him giving me a relatively better rating and then foed him). Personally though I prefer putting things like these behind me by mutually withdrawing bad ratings, but if that's abuse, well, fine with me. I’ll just let these rating disputes be the future then instead of attempting to patch things up.

[TruePurple]

@ owenator
You clearly don't know the circumstances. You said some out and out untruths.(I am avoiding using the word lie because that implies a certain level of knowledge and intent I can't speak to) Anyway this is not about me, so I won't spend a bunch of text here defending myself.

Alstergren, you think 1's across the board was a reasonable rating? What about my gameplay deserved a 1? What about my playing was so unfair? As far as attitude, my complaint was against my teammate not you, and I have a right to make cheater threads when I find something suspicious. I shouldn't have to worry about anyone retaliating with bad ratings.(especially someone who wasn't even accused) No I did not deserve 1's across the board. You used 1's as leverage to force me to change my ratings.

Lets turn this around. Lets say you alstergren were playing someone (lets call them player X) who was using bad strategy, cheating, swear words, what not. And you played marvelously. Would you find it reasonable for player X to leave you 1-1-1 as ratings, you leave 3's despite player X's horrible playing.

So player X PM's you saying he will withdraw the 1's if you withdraw the 3's rating. Would you find that fair?

Lets say everyone who behaves badly leaves 1's ratings that s/he won't withdraw unless the other person withdraws ratings that are less then the other person likes.

I am not saying you behaved badly in the game alstergren, but you didn't behave excellent either. So you got the ratings you deserved, average. I did not getting the ratings I deserved from you.

Ratings others is about how the person played, not meant to be used as leverage to get the ratings you want.

[Serbia]

Without getting involved too deeply in the specifics of this thread, the following quote explains my issue with this.

Lets turn this around. Lets say you alstergren were playing someone (lets call them player X) who was using bad strategy, cheating, swear words, what not. And you played marvelously. Would you find it reasonable for player X to leave you 1-1-1 as ratings, you leave 3's despite player X's horrible playing.

So player X PM's you saying he will withdraw the 1's if you withdraw the 3's rating. Would you find that fair?

Lets say everyone who behaves badly leaves 1's ratings that s/he won't withdraw unless the other person withdraws ratings that are less then the other person likes.

Ratings others is about how the person played, not meant to be used as leverage to get the ratings you want.

This topic is about ratings blackmail. That is what alstergren did. He preemptively left the worst ratings possible, not based on merit, but to protect his own precious ratings from someone who he perceives, justly or unjustly, someone who gives crap ratings. Is this permissible? Like he said, if every rude player does this, then they'd end up with no ratings, or good ratings, simply based on the blackmail system. I believe this is against the spirit of the game.

Now whether or not TruePurple is a jerk, or if alstergren was an awesome player who didn't deserve three stars, I don't care. Ratings blackmail is bad for the site. Rate your opponent as honestly and fairly as you can, and don't worry about stupid ratings from others.

[Selucid Empire]

I am not saying you behaved badly in the game alstergren, but you didn't behave excellent either. So you got the ratings you deserved, average. I did not getting the ratings I deserved from you.

I think this is what Jasmine (Rabid) was getting at. You rated him "average" because he didn't behave "excellent". What would have qualified as "excellent" and is it realistic of you to expect any better than he gave?

If you can't say what would have been worth a "better" rating... then maybe he did deserve the highest rating you could give. Rabid and I both give 5s most of the time because we can't say where someone "went wrong" and we can't presume to think that their strategy completely flawed since a bad roll can mess up even the best tactical move. If someone clearly played bad and had a horrible attitude, then we know that there was clear evidence they could have played better or had a better attitude.

You've shown in no way that alstergren played any less than his absolute best. Based on that... saying he played any less is your subjective rating and in my view (as well as others it would seem) is not justified since you haven't shown how he could have earned a better rating from you.

Theresa