Mongol Empire Map [Quenched]

[Guiscard]

OK guys thanks for the feedback.

These are the suggestions for improving the map as I see them (am discounting marvaddin's as in my opinion they seem a bit extreme).

1. Add Khanbaliq and Keraits to Jin to make it 5 territories and 2 borders for a bonus of 2 (or maybe 3)

2. Extend Keraits or Kalinbaliq to be the only border for Nuzhen and make it the only border of Jin, making Jin a 4 territory 1 border for a bonus of 2.

3. Add an attack route from Fukien to Korea (not keen on this one)

4. OR do nothing!

I'm in favour of either 2 or, mor likely 4. I'd like some more input from other people *cough*andy*cough*keyogi*cough* if at all possible before I do another update.

Thanks for the help Viscount. Ever thought of doing a map yourself?

[Wisse]

do the sea route between korea and fukien, thats a good one.
and why do the 2 little "sea's" don't have the same color?

[Guiscard]

The two little seas are inland seas so i left them a bit brighter as they're inside the playable area (outside is darker). If other people think they should be changed then i will...

[Wisse]

The two little seas are inland seas so i left them a bit brighter as they're inside the playable area (outside is darker). If other people think they should be changed then i will...

i meant that they are not the same color as eachoterh, i didn't meant they aren't the same color as the big sea

[Guiscard]

If you mean the two which both border Uzbeg then they are the same colour. If you mean those and the black sea (bordering Crimea) then thats not an inland sea, its connected the the Med. The end of Lu-mi-rum is turkey, if that helps you get it in perspective.

[Wisse]

ah srry i didn't know that

[AndyDufresne]

...

1. Add Khanbaliq and Keraits to Jin to make it 5 territories and 2 borders for a bonus of 2 (or maybe 3)

Regarding this idea, it might make Jin more appealing...but then consider Jin's new found power...the power to keep an eye on Yuan. Most likely, whoever owns Jin, will make a run a holding Onggt and Henan as they won't increase any number of borders and will keep neighbors a little less powerful. Just something to consider.

2. Extend Keraits or Kalinbaliq to be the only border for Nuzhen and make it the only border of Jin, making Jin a 4 territory 1 border for a bonus of 2.

Doing this would take away some of the new found power of Jin in the first idea. It might make Yuan a more managable continent, as it wouldn't always have Jin breathing down its neck.

3. Add an attack route from Fukien to Korea (not keen on this one)

Could be done, if you go with the first idea, might be nice to consider another attack route somewhere (though perhaps without adding too many extra borders). Consider red has 7 countries that can attack it (4 bonus), and if you go with idea 1, there will be 2 countries that can attack Jin (2 bonus). If you are going for *somewhat* even proportions, might not be so great. If you are going with idea 2, around the same thing. Anyways, all this is just something to consider...always remember attack routes comparative to other areas!


And Viscount, good to see a new face in the Foundry! Especially one that is eager to help and dish out thoughts and ideas.


--Andy

[Guiscard]

I quite like the idea of Jin being a small continent but whos power is to be able to keep both blue and green continents in check. I think its actually best as it is now. Reducing the number of territories in blue (now the Great Khanate) would affect the bonus, and I don't want them all to be 5.

One issue I still have:

Red Continent: 4 borders / 5 Territories / Bonus 4
Green Continent: 4 Borders / 8 territories / Bonus 4

I might add a sea route fron Nuzhen to Fukien, as this will keep the borders of jin the same but add one border to the green continent.

[The1exile]

Absolutely excellent map

I have no new suggestions, it looks brilliant, playable and fun, and I look forward to trying it out when it's released.

[ViscountGort]

any progress deciding what to do here guiscard? i think your nuzhen-fukien sea route is actually a very good idea - better than korea-fukien. i think by making jin accessible from another part of the map you make it that more deserving of its 2 bonus.

what are the other outstanding issues to resolve with this map?

btw, andy & guiscard thanks for your comments, i'm glad to have been of assistance . i'm actually working on an idea for a map of my own at the moment.... will post it up when i've developed it a bit more.

[Guiscard]

Ok heres the added sea route.

I couldn't decide on which way to route it so I've included both for people to have their say.

Which one? left or right? I really can't decide. I'm not sure about the left as it passes under the Korea territory name, but the right is perhaps a bit too big.

[DublinDoogey]

i think the route on the left might be better, as it would more likely be the way they went

[Guiscard]

Oh cheers. Updated the front page but I must have messed up the codeon that one. I've editted it now though so you can get rid of yours if you want.

[Balsiefen]

Go for left route, the other one gets tangled between korea and japan

[bedplay]

I would say right definately 100% left is just too squashed.
I like long sea routes, it makes them more clear exactly where they are to.

I wouldn't have a dot on the land though, i think dots on the sea with a triangle at each end (not on the land) would look best, but that's a little too picky...

[Guiscard]

I'll have a look at not having the dots on the land bedplay. Just did that to match the trade route really. i did feel left was pretty squashed.

[ViscountGort]

to be honest i'd go for the left route & move the KOREA name over a little bit. i don't think either looks more squashed than the other, and the left is the more obvious choice for the route.

[gavin_sidhu]

I think you should go for the right route, but i think korea should be connecting to make Jin more worth the bonus of 2.

[Guiscard]

If I connect Korea its pretty much an exact copy of what Song was, just swapped over to the north.

[ViscountGort]

Yeah bring back Song! Why did you ever get rid of that in the first place guiscard?

I think if you create this sea route (one way or the other) Jin will be sorted. It's only got 3 territories, true, but with 3 outside territories that can assualt Nuzhen the job of holding Jin will be worthy of a 2-bonus. Meanwhile Jin's newfound ability to attack both the blue and the green continents through the back door, as it were, makes it a valuable strategic stronghold. Perfect.

The other option to make Jin worthy of a 2 bonus is what i suggested before about adding keraits as another territory, but I no longer think this is as good. It diminishes the blue continent as you said guiscard, and I like Jin's new ability to hit Yuan Khanate.

How far is this map from final forge now andy?

[Marvaddin]

I cant understand why this route is needed.

To Jin, it changes almost nothing, and it still should have a bonus of 1.
To Yuan, although it adds a possibility to attack Jin, it has a much greater bad effect. It adds a border against a continent that will surely be hold earlier in the game. And now Yuan have 5 borders... for what?
Chaghadi also has 4 borders now, so giving Jin a bonus of 2 would surely make it the very stronggest continent in the map. In fact the map is very unbalanced.

Red area should have one less border at least. Blue, at least 2 less borders. From the 6 regions, 4 have 8 territories. 2 of them have 3 borders (west) and 2 have 5-6 (east), mirror continents, huh? How could this map evolve to something this bad? I would prefer the old scheme to this one.

[happysadfun]

The sea route is a good idea, but it's unnecessary to have it going both ways around, just one path will do.

[Guiscard]

Marv, read Viscounts post as to why I (and others) believe it is neccessary. That sums it up perfectly.

As for happysadfun I'm assuming you didn't actually read the post:

I couldn't decide on which way to route it so I've included both for people to have their say.

Which one? left or right? I really can't decide. I'm not sure about the left as it passes under the Korea territory name, but the right is perhaps a bit too big.

[Bad Speler]

hmm...i didnt read that post either...i vote left

[Marvaddin]

any progress deciding what to do here guiscard? i think your nuzhen-fukien sea route is actually a very good idea - better than korea-fukien. i think by making jin accessible from another part of the map you make it that more deserving of its 2 bonus.

^^ This??

making jin accessible from another part <---> it deserving its 2 bonus = false

And there is a bad effect like i have commented before.

Anyway, 4 continents with 8 territories each... as twin continents. And unnecessary borders like Kabul to Himalayas... How about return to the old scheme? This one is waaaaay worse. Or maybe try something different. Post the hystorical maps you are using, and maybe we can suggest something.