WWII-Stalingrad [QUENCHED]

[Fireside Poet]

Might I recommend the font called 1942 Report?

[cairnswk]

Might I recommend the font called 1942 Report?

I'll check it out FP, thanks

[cairnswk]

Version 5...conversion to Corel Draw.
Not quite finished yet.

[cairnswk]

OK. I've converted this to Coreldraw, so that i won't have any issues with line sizes.
Coreldraw allows hairline similar to PS, but most of this is in vector imaging.

Some comments on gameplay development would be appreciated, graphics will be covered as we go along.

[cairnswk]

Version 6.

Moving deck chairs....in the legend.

There are two fonts in the legend.
Left (as with the tert names) is the Atlanctic line font.
Right is the 1942 Font in the legend, and on the bonuses up top right.
Neither of these fonts can be bolded but they can have glow.

Are they suitable?

Click image to enlarge.

[pamoa]

ok cairns big mayhem here but nice map indeed

first correct me if I'm wrong
each bomb territory is under german and russian aircraft attack
and each aircraft is under any opponent artillery fire
by holding 100th division (by example) you get a +3 bonus and 16th a +2 am I right

questions
is vvs2 (right on the map shouldn't be vvs1) attackable 62nd chulkov
what's the use of having differentiated infantry and armoured units as they have the same power

from a graphic point of view
to reduce noise and help players you should find a way of combinig the army symbol with army number
by getting rid of the circle and making some rectangle next to it like "X___"
your trees are too repetitive make 3 or four of them them put them in a random order to get a more "natural" effect
and make a vertical trunk not that triangle
the difference between the thin line of infantry and the black surface of other symbol make them feel like 2 separate graphic language make infantry "cross" thicker
german artillery symbols are weird and on the top some symbols are larger

well a lot of comments I hope not too offensive
keep going on

[cairnswk]

ok cairns big mayhem here but nice map indeed

first correct me if I'm wrong

Thanks for dropping in.

each bomb territory is under german and russian aircraft attack

yes at present. that may change to create some balance.

and each aircraft is under any opponent artillery fire

well, we can have that, or you can have it so that only neighbouring infantry can attack each aircraft.

by holding 100th division (by example) you get a +3 bonus and 16th a +2 am I right

yes.

questions
is vvs2 (right on the map shouldn't be vvs1) attackable 62nd chulkov

yes. oned of those whould be VVS1

what's the use of having differentiated infantry and armoured units as they have the same power

like i said, that's what discussing gameplay is about, its changeable if you want. what is your proposition?

from a graphic point of view
to reduce noise and help players you should find a way of combinig the army symbol with army number
by getting rid of the circle and making some rectangle next to it like "X___"

OK i see what you're saying. that'll mean those unit icons become much larger, but it could be worth a go.

your trees are too repetitive make 3 or four of them them put them in a random order to get a more "natural" effect
and make a vertical trunk not that triangle

yep still working on those.

the difference between the thin line of infantry and the black surface of other symbol make them feel like 2 separate graphic language make infantry "cross" thicker

still experimenting with those.

german artillery symbols are weird and on the top some symbols are larger

ok, well they'll all be larger if your armies alongside works.

well a lot of comments I hope not too offensive
keep going on

far from offensive. some good suggestions. thanks

[cairnswk]

Version 7.
1. Army shadows changed to pamoa's suggestions (i think that what he was talking about)
2. V V S 2 (right) changed to V V S 1
3. Bottom left you'll see some changes happening to the trees, with shadow casting.
4. V V S 3 has different territory colour as I'm going to experiement with some colour changes here.

[the.killing.44]

New circles/squares and trees are oh-so-much better. Bolding the 1942 font text would probably increase the readability. Are you going to add textures? Forgive me if you've already said this, but textures and a difference between the land and water (i.e. drop shadow — some way to convey elevation) is really needed.

v3 I liked, v4 not-so-much, but v7 this has come on really strong. Nicely done — I'll look at gameplay another time.
.44

[cairnswk]

....Bolding the 1942 font text would probably increase the readability. ....
.44

Already stated that this font can't be bolded.

[the.killing.44]

....Bolding the 1942 font text would probably increase the readability. ....
.44

Already stated that this font can't be bolded.

Faux bold it? You could do that in PS then transfer in — even saving the text as a .png and bringing it in would work.

.44

[cairnswk]

....Bolding the 1942 font text would probably increase the readability. ....
.44

Already stated that this font can't be bolded.

Faux bold it? You could do that in PS then transfer in — even saving the text as a .png and bringing it in would work.

.44

i don't have PS. this map is being rendered in Coreldraw, and i can't use Illustrator at present as it won't load properly.
I'll continue to see what is possible, though.

[Fireside Poet]

That font fits perfect ... just needs a little darkening and it's set. I'll look over the rest of the map when I get more time.

[the.killing.44]

Faux bolded. Scale and do whatever as you please — they're all PNGs. I apologize if the glows aren't the right color. Hope this helps…

.44

[cairnswk]

Current Version 7.

Faux bolded. Scale and do whatever as you please — they're all PNGs. I apologize if the glows aren't the right color. Hope this helps…
.44

I'll look into whatever i can .44, but making no promises.

That font fits perfect ... just needs a little darkening and it's set. I'll look over the rest of the map when I get more time.

So are you suggesting this font just for the legend or the entire map. i think the entire map would be a mistake, and even parts of the legend might be impossible where there is extended but small text.
Let me look at what is achievable without jumping in here, and i think others might have an opinion also eh?

[Fireside Poet]

In my opinion, the font looks perfect where it is at and I agree that map-wide usage would not work. I am sure there will be some other opinions on it though.

[pamoa]

font:
maybe just use a simple courrier font bolded in the legend and only for some larger title your 1942 font
I prefer it to the atlantic line one

graphics:
army symbol yes something like this don't you find your map easier to read like this?
maybe being more creative by blending army number in the symbol (I'll send you an example of what I mean latter)
trees with shadow much much better
maybe as suggested add some dropping shadow to the river sides
both will make your map more living
maybe also some ground texture like the snow you had in army circle

gameplay:
I'll discuss it latter

[cairnswk]

please guys. get on with the gameplay now. this is more important than graphics issues, right now.

[pamoa]

1st suggestion another way of using aircraft ?
what if you get rid of the strange bombs attacking armies and make
aircraft can bombard any city position
artillery can bombard any aircraft ennemies
and then create two or three german HQ that can attack some or all german aircrafts

2nd suggestion
artillery can only bombard enemy infantry and artillery (also aircrafts)
not armoured units as they were less affected by artillery

3rd suggestion
armoured units get an attack range of 2
as they were mechanised and able to go quicker into enemy lines without being stopped by the first sniper they come through

some graphic minor issue
minor I said
in the attack legend if attacker are red then "defenders" should be with blue bg

and btw red army should be in red no?

[cairnswk]

1st suggestion another way of using aircraft ?
what if you get rid of the strange bombs attacking armies and make
aircraft can bombard any city position
artillery can bombard any aircraft ennemies
and then create two or three german HQ that can attack some or all german aircrafts

2nd suggestion
artillery can only bombard enemy infantry and artillery (also aircrafts)
not armoured units as they were less affected by artillery

3rd suggestion
armoured units get an attack range of 2
as they were mechanised and able to go quicker into enemy lines without being stopped by the first sniper they come through

some graphic minor issue
minor I said
in the attack legend if attacker are red then "defenders" should be with blue bg

and btw red army should be in red no?

I'm not up for all of these pamoa. But let's what others have to say about gameplay also.

the reason i put bombs in there was to make it so that only aircraft could attack those positions to keep some gameplay balance. Also to create some reality with what happened re bombing raids. If you have aircraft attacking all over the place then this greatly enhances the opportunity for somebody to fort heavily into the aircraft positions and this could lessen other players opportunities to gain a stronghold somewhere to win the game.

Perhaps the artillery could just be a bombardment aspect.

i see what you mean in the legend re defender colour blue.

red army red. well no not necessarily. although other might agree with you.

Anyway, Version 8 below.
1. I'm trying to put some perspective into this one.
2. Trees are still being worked on
3. Army shadows are being made more transparent.
4. Legend appearing in all 1942 font.
5. Experimenting with background colours...still. Not sure i want winter for this map, That map is more set at the beginning of the battle in summer.

More gameplay discussion please.

Click image to enlarge.

[cairnswk]

font:
maybe just use a simple courrier font bolded in the legend and only for some larger title your 1942 font
I prefer it to the atlantic line one

graphics:
army symbol yes something like this don't you find your map easier to read like this?
maybe being more creative by blending army number in the symbol (I'll send you an example of what I mean latter)
trees with shadow much much better
maybe as suggested add some dropping shadow to the river sides
both will make your map more living
maybe also some ground texture like the snow you had in army circle

gameplay:
I'll discuss it latter

Gameplay good.
I'm trying to implement some of your graphics suggestions.

[AndyDufresne]

The colors that dominate the map at the moment I don't think say much about the theme of the fighting for Stalingrad---perhaps it's is their light color in nature, perhaps it's the lack of grunge and grime usually assocated with battle, especially on like Stalingrad. Whatever it is, this map's colors remind me more of your non-war maps, than your war maps.


--Andy

[cairnswk]

The colors that dominate the map at the moment I don't think say much about the theme of the fighting for Stalingrad---perhaps it's is their light color in nature, perhaps it's the lack of grunge and grime usually assocated with battle, especially on like Stalingrad. Whatever it is, this map's colors remind me more of your non-war maps, than your war maps.


--Andy

Thanks Andy. I'll keep that in mind for the next colour change.

[pamoa]

actual attack conditions

aircrafts attack bombs
bombs attack neighbouring infantry and armoured units
artillery attack enemy artillery, infantry, armoured units and all aircrafts
infantry and armoured units attack any neighbouring artillery, infantry and armoured units

my suggestion

aircrafts bombard city position or target zone marked with bomb
artillery bombard enemy artillery, infantry and aircrafts
infantry attack any neighbouring artillery, infantry, armoured units and aircrafts*
armoured units attack with a range of 2 any neighbouring artillery, infantry and armoured units

*some 2 or 3 new german position should be created as HQ which would connect to german aircrafts

the reason I put bombs in there was to make it so that only aircraft could attack those positions to keep some gameplay balance. Also to create some reality with what happened re bombing raids. If you have aircraft attacking all over the place then this greatly enhances the opportunity for somebody to fort heavily into the aircraft positions and this could lessen other players opportunities to gain a stronghold somewhere to win the game.
Perhaps the artillery could just be a bombardment aspect.

my problem is you can have troops into the aircraft drop on the bomb and then attack units on the ground
it is something like a parachutists attack and I don't think it is what you had in mind
that's why I propose aircrafts are only bombarding positions
if someone is stupid enough to heavily fort into a position you can not go out I don't think he will be able to win the game
and to be historically accurate I don't think holding the city was the key to win the battle
on the contrary holding the city was a trap for both armies until russian managed to cut the city from any supply
maybe target zone can be less than all the city positions by leaving the bomb symbol in the zone but not as a position itself

[cairnswk]

....
my problem is you can have troops into the aircraft drop on the bomb and then attack units on the ground
it is something like a parachutists attack and I don't think it is what you had in mind
that's why I propose aircrafts are only bombarding positions

What i had in mind was not parachutists, pamoa, but that aircraft drop troops/ammo on bombs which then can kill infantry/armour.

if someone is stupid enough to heavily fort into a position you can not go out I don't think he will be able to win the game
and to be historically accurate I don't think holding the city was the key to win the battle
on the contrary holding the city was a trap for both armies until russian managed to cut the city from any supply
maybe target zone can be less than all the city positions by leaving the bomb symbol in the zone but not as a position itself

what is not on the attacks legend, and this is my mistake, is that artillery, infantry and armour can attack bombs.
i'll consider your option for target zone...see what others think about it also.