Castle Lands [Quenched]

by **Qwert** on Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:44 pm

well i dont know what to say just =D>

maybe can be a just little smaller?

by **MrBenn** on Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:33 am

qwert wrote:well i dont know what to say just

maybe can be a just little smaller?

The small catapault on the legend would be about the right size to use on the map too ;-)

Nice work

by **pikkio** on Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:10 am

MrBenn wrote:
qwert wrote:well i dont know what to say just

maybe can be a just little smaller?

The small catapault on the legend would be about the right size to use on the map too

Nice work

really??

in my opinion at that size the catapult will loose quite all of its beauty.. and keep in mind that this is the big map.. if i reduce the catapults at that size in the big map, when i make the small map they will seems only brown stains on the map..

if you want i will reduce a bit the catapult's size, but not so much.

by **oaktown** on Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:18 pm

the oversized catapults would look fine if it looked intentional - if all of the little graphics were oversized it would be a consistent artistic style, but since they dwarf other elements it looks a bit off. Since the catapults have something of a comical look to them (and I mean that in a good way), rather than shrinking them I'd like to see everything else made to match.

by **iancanton** on Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:49 am

pikkio wrote:i changes the courts border, and now i think that it's very clear wich court can attack wich tower.

agreed. the new arrangement of court regions also helps fortification better than the original.

oaktown wrote:Since the catapults have something of a comical look to them (and I mean that in a good way), rather than shrinking them I'd like to see everything else made to match.

i like the big catapults, so don't make them too small! thanks to qwert for the original artwork.

my final suggestion for name changes (i promise!): the forest region has a very similar name to the forests bonus zone. call the forest region oak forest or pine forest, perhaps?

ian.

by **sailorseal** on Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:48 am

Firstly I would like to start by saying I love this map.
Now I am concerned that the castle is a sitting duck. The catapults can bombard the castle but what can the castle do? Also I am not sure what defines the castle, I see a territory called "castle" but when I think of the castle bonus, I assume it contains all of the walls, please clarify this.
On the graphical side, I agree that this is done.
Nice Map!

by **pikkio** on Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:57 pm

iancanton wrote:
pikkio wrote:i changes the courts border, and now i think that it's very clear wich court can attack wich tower.

agreed. the new arrangement of court regions also helps fortification better than the original.
oaktown wrote:Since the catapults have something of a comical look to them (and I mean that in a good way), rather than shrinking them I'd like to see everything else made to match.

i like the big catapults, so don't make them too small! thanks to qwert for the original artwork.

my final suggestion for name changes (i promise!): the forest region has a very similar name to the forests bonus zone. call the forest region oak forest or pine forest, perhaps?

ian.

i made the catapult smaller, but not too much. i think that the minimum size to understand the image is the legend's icon size on the big map. so i reduce the catapults in the big map to a size that in the small map it will become quite the same size of the legend's icon in the big map. what do you think about??

forset name changed in Pine-Forest.

p.s. this catapult are made by myself.

version 9.1

Click image to enlarge.

sailorseal wrote:Now I am concerned that the castle is a sitting duck. The catapults can bombard the castle but what can the castle do? Also I am not sure what defines the castle, I see a territory called "castle" but when I think of the castle bonus, I assume it contains all of the walls, please clarify this.

the castle give a +2 bonus and is only one territory, this is why it will be bombarded and it can't do anything.

i said it too many times. i will try to explane it another time, with calm this time.

probably in italian every word mean a specifical and unmistakable thing and it's for this reason that i can't understand why it's so difficult for you to understand what it means Castle, what it mean Towers, and what it mean Walls..
but the point are:
-if in a map there are 3 different words (with different army circles) maybe it means that Castle is one thing, Tower is another, and Wall another one. if anyone have dubt, this clue can easilly give the right answer..
-if you look at the legend and see two different bonus for Castle and for Towers, and the castle has a smaller bonus, what can push you to think that Castle means Castle+Towers+Walls?
-if walls are impassable border and aren't territories, this is another clue to understand that the word "Castle" doesn't means the sum of Castle territory, Towers territories and Walls territories, cause walls aren't territories.

in conclusion, because in the map thoose different names are largerly used separately, it's clear that with every one of this words i mean a specifical and different thing and it's absurd to think that in the map i call Castle a thing and in the legend i mean another thing with the same word, so:
-Castle are the territory called "Castle" and represented by a little building inner the walls. it has +2 bonus like explaned in the legend
-Towers are the tall buildings called "Desert Tower", "Mountain Tower", "Forest Tower", "Field Tower", with doors to the inner court (castle) and outer court (courts) and with a flag on the top that means wich catapult is bombard-connected. if you have all this territories called Tower, you will have +4 bonus like explaned in the legend.
-Walls are the impassable border with no army circles and seems like the image on the legend, so it doesn't contain any other things more than the wall represented in the legend. if someone may have dubt about the words and think that walls means walls+towers, the legend's icon will clearly explane the right interpretation.

by **sailorseal** on Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:39 pm

pikkio wrote:i said it too many times. i will try to explane it another time, with calm this time.

That is the point, make it so the map needs to explain it so you don't

by **Danyael** on Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:06 pm

sailorseal wrote:
pikkio wrote:i said it too many times. i will try to explane it another time, with calm this time.

That is the point, make it so the map needs to explain it so you don't

it makes it very clear on the legend
i really don't see a problem

by **thenobodies80** on Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:52 pm

sailorseal wrote:
pikkio wrote:i said it too many times. i will try to explane it another time, with calm this time.

That is the point, make it so the map needs to explain it so you don't

I'm with Pikkio about this "concern": It is clear, very clear...
Just read... :roll:

by **pikkio** on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:01 pm

sailorseal wrote:
pikkio wrote:i said it too many times. i will try to explane it another time, with calm this time.

That is the point, make it so the map needs to explain it so you don't

guys, i assure that this time i'm really trying to stay calm.

i didn't see a problem with that thing the first time that someone explaned it, but i modified a lot of things to make it more clear as it's possible. if i don't have space problems with the legend maybe i can write something like "Castle it means only the little building inner the walls" and "towers are separated territories with separated bonus" and "walls don't mean anything more than walls" (or "Walls don't include Towers"). yeah, i keep thinking that those are stupid specifications, but if i have space to write it i will do it cause i really have no more patience to think about this concern. but i don't have the space to write this silly specifications, so if people continue to force me to do it this map will never see the final foundry.

now, if you think that this map is not enough clear to be a CC map, tell me how can i make it more clear without damaging it making a larger legend with silly specifications, or please, tell me that this map will never be quenched so i can trash it and think about other things. i don't live for CC and i'm really annoying about making maps on this mad comunity. if you want i'm glad to give to you a good new map for this game, but if you want to push me around and use my time and my abilities like i'm a CC employee, you must hire me and pay me.

those are my last words. tell me that this is the definitive map (or tell me how can i make a definitive map without upset it), then i will make the small map and you will quench it, or i will leave this comunity and give this map to another site.

by **sailorseal** on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:58 pm

pikkio wrote:
sailorseal wrote:
pikkio wrote:i said it too many times. i will try to explane it another time, with calm this time.

That is the point, make it so the map needs to explain it so you don't

guys, i assure that this time i'm really trying to stay calm.
Look we are not flaming you nor are we flaming your map but you can stay calm for the 10 years this map is live and recite this to every player or you can simplify it on the map
those are my last words. tell me that this is the definitive map (or tell me how can i make a definitive map without upset it), then i will make the small map and you will quench it, or i will leave this comunity and give this map to another site.
By now I am pretty confident that this map will make it

by **oaktown** on Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:39 am

I guess I still have the final say in quenching since I haven't actually handed that job off to anybody... I'm now quite comfortable with the legend, and the changes you have made to the graphics satisfy my copyright concerns.

Since I don't see this in the first post, could you quickly fill me in on what territories start neutral, if any, and at what value? I am assuming (and hoping) that the castle starts neutral.

by **MoB Deadly** on Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:52 am

Pardon my laziness but I only read the most recent couple pages so I apologize if I repeat something.

pikkio - The game map in general looks great, love the territories and the castle.

My only major concern is the bonuses. I would much rather go for a region not in the middle, such as the Mountians region and focus on building that up than going for the castle. with only a +2 bonus and bombardment from all regions, I am definitely very discouraged to go for the castle.

I think the castle should be +5, and the 4 outside regions should all be minused 1. I will definitely play this map when its released! Good luck!

by **thenobodies80** on Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:33 am

sailorseal wrote:
pikkio wrote:
sailorseal wrote:
pikkio wrote:i said it too many times. i will try to explane it another time, with calm this time.

That is the point, make it so the map needs to explain it so you don't

guys, i assure that this time i'm really trying to stay calm.
Look we are not flaming you nor are we flaming your map but you can stay calm for the 10 years this map is live and recite this to every player or you can simplify it on the map
those are my last words. tell me that this is the definitive map (or tell me how can i make a definitive map without upset it), then i will make the small map and you will quench it, or i will leave this comunity and give this map to another site.
By now I am pretty confident that this map will make it

We who?
Sorry but how many sailorseal there are here?
WE are not flaming?
Did You clone yourself?
If you don't have anything serious to say, please don't post!
Thank you

---------------------------------------------

Oak the changes will come soon, i already sent a mail to pikkio for your request!

Have a nice a day

TNBDS

by **Qwert** on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:40 am

OK im confused. I look on topic tittle and say-stamps-D-GP-GR.

by oaktown » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:39 am

I guess I still have the final say in quenching since I haven't actually handed that job off to anybody... I'm now quite comfortable with the legend, and the changes you have made to the graphics satisfy my copyright concerns.

Since I don't see this in the first post, could you quickly fill me in on what territories start neutral, if any, and at what value? I am assuming (and hoping) that the castle starts neutral.

So what is story here Oak? if these map fulfill last issue(copuright issue with catapults),then i dont know why you now proponging next step for these map? Guy who is responsibile for Gameplay decide that map fulfill all importan for Gameplay and give Stamp. Instead to say"ok map finaly get all stamps and ready for FF" you want to pikio give you all gameplay references again. I dont understand why you not contact stamp licker who give Gameplay stamp? I tell several time that gameplay can be best checked in Beta stage, that why you create these stage,or not?

Pikio i know that you are a little mad,but belive me im been in these situation every time, and your fault is these-you need to fill first post in first pages with all importan informacions(list of territory names-bonuses-neutral possitions-gameplay structures),and in that way you will be in possition to post "Look page 1 to see all informacions",these is what im learn,instead to repeat same stories every time.

by **pikkio** on Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:42 am

thanx qwert, but you said a wrong thing. i'm not a little mad, i'm totally mad!

the starting positions approved with the gameplay stamp was in the first post under the last maps.

however, now i posted the 9.1 with the starting positions.

by the way, qwert was right. someone give to this map the gameplay stamp and we had discussed a lot about it. the point is that probably it's only a fact about different strategies (i mean to think that the castle bonus is small, or high, or the neutral army are too much or less, etc..) that everyone see like the only possible and think about the map only in that sense (i mean that with this startings and bonuses someone think that it's better to leave the center and conquer the outer coutries, and someone think that right now it's better to concentrate on the center and if we give to it more bonuses or less starting neutral it will be too easy to conquer and too powerful). but since we've test the map we can't say if the gameplay was balanced or not. we think that it's balanced and who gave the stamp thinks the same. let's go test it and finally we'll learn it.

version 9.1 small

Click image to enlarge.

version 9.1 starting position

Click image to enlarge.

by **Qwert** on Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: Castle Lands [D,Gp,Gr] up. 04-27: final version -page 18

Pikio these is what is write in topic tittle,
need to write-Castle lands[d,Gp,Gr]map description page 1-update page 1-18
In these way,you will avoide all post questions like"can i see where neutral positions on map" or all others questions abouth map explanations. For example how to arange first post in first page look some of mine map topic.

by **pikkio** on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:37 pm

thanx qwert but it's late to learn how to make a good first post. i think that i will never make another map and i hope that for this map we're at the end.

but i think that i don't understand the sense of your title suggestion.. if i read a title like that, i understand that this map (called castle lands and with 3 stamps) has a description in page 1 and some kind of update from page 1 to page 18.. a title like that can be ok for every update and don't tell anything to the readers.. or maybe i don't understand what you mean.. :roll:

i think that it's clear that in the first post you can find all informations about the map, and in the other post you can find the discussions about every update and every change, so i write in the title the date of the last update (to understand faster if there's something new), then the subject of the update and the page where the update was posted and where the last discussion starts.

by **oaktown** on Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:32 pm

Pikkio, the reason I asked about the starting neutrals is because changes have been made since the Gameplay stamp was given over a month ago. I am responsible for making sure that all concerns are addressed before the map is sent on to the Final Forge, so that when you get to the Forge you can focus on the XML without having to make too many last-minute changes. I've taken heat recently from a mapmaker for sending a map in prematurely, so I'm just trying to make sure we get everything right.

And no, qwert, gameplay is not best checked in BETA. See: Das Schloss. :-^

Thanks for posting the image with army counts. Everything looks fine to me. I will get a Mod to move the thread ASAP.

Final Forge

---The Castle Lands Map has reached the ‘Final Forge’ Stage. The map has passed rigorous gameplay and graphics examinations, and major concerns have been addressed. If you have any other concerns, please make your voice heard. If after a reasonable amount of time there has not been any objection or protest, the map will be deemed finished with the 'Foundry Brand' of approval and will be submitted for live play. As long as there is still discussion or posts that have yet to be commented on, the map will remain in Final Forge until said discussion has reached the conclusion that the map has reached its final and polished version.

Post questions and concerns if any.

by **thenobodies80** on Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:34 am

Thank you Happy Hippo! =D>

I'll start the XML this evening...

Have a nice day

TNBDS

by **MrBenn** on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:16 am

Onwards and Upwards... into the Final Forge we go...

by **Qwert** on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:39 am

And no, qwert, gameplay is not best checked in BETA. See: Das Schloss

Oak,dass schloos is unique gameplay,and Cairnswk create these map before beta stage implementation.

by **MrBenn** on Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:08 am

qwert wrote:
And no, qwert, gameplay is not best checked in BETA. See: Das Schloss

Oak,dass schloos is unique gameplay,and Cairnswk create these map before beta stage implementation.

Das Schloss is the reason that the Beta phase was introduced as a final fail-safe. Gameplay should be otherwise sorted and ready to go ;-)

[/offtopic]

by **pikkio** on Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:24 am

finally, here we are!! :mrgreen:

thanx to all!

oak, i wasn't afraid with you for your asking about neutrals, it's clear that before you give a stamp you must be sure that everything is ok and with the last changes there was a possibility that i changed the neutrals.

so, now i'm in the hands of thenobodies. good work bro'! ^_^