The Big Bad Homosexuality and Gay Marriage FAQ

[2dimes]

Jay, since Jesus pretty much wiped out the old testament,

where does it say in the new testament that homosexuality is wrong?

Romans, I'll post the text if you're scared to touch a bible, like it seems most of the bible experts on here are, or just don't have access to one.

It doesn't mention anything about thrusting someone into hell because they're gay, but it doesn't paint it as a particularly positive thing either.

It pretty clearly to me says guys running a church are not supposed to be swimming the warm waters of those particular sins of the flesh.

Not sure how some of those guys in high positions of major churches that are homosexual or child molesters are interpreting it though.

[jay_a2j]

Well I don't know Jay, perhaps you should give me your interpretation of Matthew 5:44-48 because I would twist it to mean that Jesus himself taught we should let a homosexual legally marry another homosexual in a civil not a church marriage to be able to get his teeth fixed under a corporate dental plan.

Math 5:44 Love your neighbors. Not condone their sinful lifestyle. We are called to love our neighbors, that includes homosexuals. But thats a far cry from "have no problem" with the sin of homosexuality.



To vtmarik and the others who say Letiticus is the last place homosexuality is mentioned:


1 Cor. 6:9-11 states...... "9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

[vtmarik]

1 Cor. 6:9-11 states...... "9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Nor the swindlers nor the slanderers...

I believe characterizing the love between two homosexual partners as being unreal counts as slander.

He who says thou fool...

[heavycola]

and why only homosexual offenders? Do straight crims get a free pass?


Jay here is teh KJ version:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind"

'effeminate'? What about women? no camp men allowed?

'abusers of themselves with mankind' - what about lesbians?

And where are the male prostitutes you mentioned? Did Ted Haggard slip that in (no pun intended)?

or is your bible better than the KJV?

[Bertros Bertros]

To vtmarik and the others who say Letiticus is the last place homosexuality is mentioned:

icus - From the latin meaning of or pertaining to.

So Letiticus is the book of or pertaining to tits?

Edit: In line with my new policy of not being serious I deleted the rest of this post

[Freetymes]

WHAT?????! The Bible condemns homosexuality PERIOD.

Then explain the homosexual priests and other ranking clergy in the Episciple church and others please!

[Freetymes]

If one uses lubricant, and takes precautions not to tear or injure the tissue, then any negative effect is negligible.

This may make you feel better about having an erect penis shoved up your ass but it is completely untrue medically.

[Koba]

The bible does condemn homosexual sex. Lieing with a man as with a woman and all that. But that does not mean that a non-sexual homosexual relationship is a sin, so a union between two of the same sex is not actually sinful.

[heavycola]

who gives a f*ck what a bunch of deluded cultists think 'sin' is. It''s all bollocks. We all get indoctrinated with this shite from an early age and some of us manage to break free from it, that's all.

It is only sinful to the brainwashed 'faithful' who believe there is a giant man living in the sky who watches everything you do and knows everything you think. Ditch all the supernatural fairytale nonsense and you ditch the sin.

[vtmarik]

To vtmarik and the others who say Letiticus is the last place homosexuality is mentioned:

icus - From the latin meaning of or pertaining to.

So Letiticus is the book of or pertaining to tits?

Edit: In line with my new policy of not being serious I deleted the rest of this post

who gives a f*ck what a bunch of deluded cultists think 'sin' is. It''s all bollocks. We all get indoctrinated with this shite from an early age and some of us manage to break free from it, that's all.

It is only sinful to the brainwashed 'faithful' who believe there is a giant man living in the sky who watches everything you do and knows everything you think. Ditch all the supernatural fairytale nonsense and you ditch the sin.

You'll never convince a brainwashed cultist of there being no such thing as sin, just the same way that you can never convince a die-hard Wiccan that there's no reality to the 'Three-fold' rule.

It's just stupid guilt. Guilt born from fear.

If there is any sin in the world, its fear. We were created in God's image, we were created by a perfect being, yet we are imperfect because Perfect God gave us Free Will and we 'chose' to Sin. However, logic dictates that a perfect being cannot create imperfection. So either God is imperfect, or sin doesn't exist.

Another thing, does anyone find it odd that a being with limitless love and caring for His creation would allow a demonic being to have any sway over us let alone let that being live? The OT God was all about the smiting of the unclean, yet He let Satan live in Hell.

So Onan was worthy of death for spilling his seed on the ground, but Satan gets to live even though he tried to pull off a coup d'etat on the reigning government in Heaven? That's a little unfair. Jonah didn't get killed for disobeying God. He got a free ride in a fish and had to do what God told Him to do in the first place. Job's son almost died because God needed to prove a point to Satan, and he was an innocent child.

Wasn't it Paul who said "If a trumpet make an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle?" (Translation: If the message is unclear, who can understand it?)

Either these imperfections in something inspired by a perfect entity are intentional (thus rendering God imperfect) or these words weren't inspired or guided by any entity. Or at least, that's what conclusions I draw from the available data.

[MeDeFe]

Other cultists? And people whose lives are affected by what those cultists think?

[Roger Dodger]

oh man, i can't believe this is still going on..

btw many companies are giving domestic partner benefits. this includes medical, dental, optical and pension/ insurance rights.

does anyone here agree that if you spend years/ a lifetime with someone and own property and stuff together that at the point of either persons death the one left over loses everything?

as a person i don't think that's fair.

i don't like the word marriage. i think civil union is fine. believe it or not you could still have a church wedding because it is discrimination to turn someone away.

believe it or not.

however it still seems strange to me when women mention their partners as wives and men calling their sig. other husband.

i really really can't get used to that. but, it is not my place to judge anyone.

[jay_a2j]

and why only homosexual offenders? Do straight crims get a free pass?


Jay here is teh KJ version:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind"

'effeminate'? What about women? no camp men allowed?

'abusers of themselves with mankind' - what about lesbians?

And where are the male prostitutes you mentioned? Did Ted Haggard slip that in (no pun intended)?

or is your bible better than the KJV?

effeminate was translated to "male prostitutes"

"mankind" includes women.


No, the KJV is the better version.

[heavycola]

effeminate was translated to "male prostitutes"

WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? Read a thesaurus FFS. Or does this mean Ted Haggard was just acting camp?
NB I should point out that I have no problem with anyone doing drugs and shagging other guys. I do have a problem with homophobic, American Taliban preachers scaring kids witless with their fire and brimstone bullshit doing drugs and shagging other guys. And then lying about it.

"mankind" includes women.

I think my girlfriend would disagree (she has a masters in theology as well as boobs, BTW). But, once again, please do interpret it as you see fit (i.e. in the most bigoted way possible).

[Backglass]

effeminate was translated to "male prostitutes"

WHAT MADNESS IS THIS?

The madness of religion.

It changes according to the wishes of the believers, then the changes are viewed as the correct interpretation...the previous one was just wrong, thats all.

[2dimes]

Well I don't know Jay, perhaps you should give me your interpretation of Matthew 5:44-48 because I would twist it to mean that Jesus himself taught we should let a homosexual legally marry another homosexual in a civil not a church marriage to be able to get his teeth fixed under a corporate dental plan.

Math 5:44 Love your neighbors. Not condone their sinful lifestyle. We are called to love our neighbors, that includes homosexuals. But thats a far cry from "have no problem" with the sin of homosexuality.

Well sir I'm not trying to take shots at you but I would like to know what translation you're lifting that from.

All the ones I've read state enemy not nieghbor.

I'm by no means saying you should be snuggling with them, helping with the lube, running the camera or even seeking out single one to be friends with. I'm not saying anywhere you should condone homosexuality or even accept it as not being sin.

If you don't know any homosexuals than you don't even have to do anything toward them good or bad.

I am saying Jesus taught as recorded in the bible to love them and even bless them if you are put in a situation to do so.

Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:44 Some late manuscripts "enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you "

I am sure that the point of what was being taught there is that it's important to treat everyone like your self, even people you are logically suposed to hate. According to the source I quoted some manuscripts were even altered to specificaly say that.

That's what makes Jesus' teaching different and completely condems those that pull something like the crusades or abuse other people under some concept of, "well this part of the book looks like I should throw rocks at some people."

Again I say Jesus teaches that you should have the compasion to allow even (insert whom ever you hate here), medical attention food and shelter and dental care if it's in you power. Other wise you're no better than (insert whom ever you think is bad here) who also loves their own family and friends.

[2dimes]

Ditch all the supernatural fairytale nonsense and you ditch the sin.

You don't think this way.

That's complete anarchy, there's no such thing as sin, everything is relative as pertaining to good and bad. You believe in sin just as much as Jay you just phrase it differently.

Killing you to take your stuff and rape your widow might be bad for you and her but so what?

Here on my end "how can it be bad if it feels so good." and I liked your watch.

You, like most of the new testament, seem to speak about how making bad choices brings their own punishments as opposed to waiting to be judged for them when you die.

[heavycola]

Ditch all the supernatural fairytale nonsense and you ditch the sin.

You don't think this way.

That's complete anarchy, there's no such thing as sin, everything is relative as pertaining to good and bad. You believe in sin just as much as Jay you just phrase it differently.

Killing you to take your stuff and rape your widow might be bad for you and her but so what?

Here on my end "how can it be bad if it feels so good." and I liked your watch.

You, like most of the new testament, seem to speak about how making bad choices brings their own punishments as opposed to waiting to be judged for them when you die.

No man, i'm trying to distinguish 'sin' from morality. Sin according to the bible is wearing a poly blend, not loving god, coveting your neighbour's ox, being gay etc etc... and if you're catholic it goes even deeper. Morality is different and almost universal. If you're Amish then wearing buttons is a sin, which is ridiculous.

Being gay is, like jesse said, not a choice, and it's certainly not immoral. But a boy brought up in the xian faith who turns out to be gay might be horribly tormented by that fact as a result of being told it is a sin punishable by eternal damnation, which is a very sad state of affairs and possibly qualifies as child abuse IMHO.

[2dimes]

[Sin according to the bible is wearing a poly blend, not loving god, coveting your neighbour's ox, being gay etc etc... and if you're catholic it goes even deeper.

Pun?

[2dimes]

One of the only times I recall specifically seeing mention in the bible of being sent to hell, is over name calling and I think it needs a little context.

I might have to re-think wearing buttons though.