Oceania [Quenched]

[mibi]

Please try to learn how to accept constructive criticism. I think this is a good map. I only suggest a color refinement.

Here is the reasoning behind my sugg. And please take note that I just received the pm yesterday informing me that my opinion was requested.

When you have a map such as yours, with most of the canvas being water, it is better to make it a lighter shade than the land. It is considered "negative space" and should be made to allow your subject to come forward. This is especially critical when you have such small dots of land. If you are interested in what I am trying to say, simply take a few moments to adjust your color levels accordingly. Make the water a very light shade, and the land a very rich color. This contrast will allow your land to come forward and pop. ...Try it !
You attempted it once at the beginning of this thread, but you did not take it far enough. If you remember, that was the first thing that people suggested. These first impressions are dead on. "New eyes" are very useful, use them. They are far more objective because they have NOT been starring at it for hours upon hours.

Again, I like this map. Good luck with it.

I entirely disagree. The dark blue sea works well with the land colors. The negative space is filled nicely.

What can I say, I'm a "dark water guy", there are plenty of "light water guys" around too. They are usually wrong though.

[porkenbeans]

pikkio,
I understand from experience, your frustration in this micky mouse operation, Sorry guys, I know that his is a volunteer group, but there are some, that take this thing more serious than some of you part time hobbyists, in charge of the foundry. The structure that you have in place is NOT as efficient as it could be. These poor guys are a prime example. They have spent many hours together trying to produce this map. They have bent over backwards to make everyone happy, and still do not understand exactly how this whole process works. Your attempt at creating a "juridic" approval process is as half assed as your commitment to the Foundry. If you do not have the time it takes to devote, you should step aside, and retire. Let someone come in and create a foundry process that is spelled out in clear terms, that even non-English speaking people can easily understand. Sorry, had to vent, ...but it is the truth.

[porkenbeans]

Please try to learn how to accept constructive criticism. I think this is a good map. I only suggest a color refinement.

Here is the reasoning behind my sugg. And please take note that I just received the pm yesterday informing me that my opinion was requested.

When you have a map such as yours, with most of the canvas being water, it is better to make it a lighter shade than the land. It is considered "negative space" and should be made to allow your subject to come forward. This is especially critical when you have such small dots of land. If you are interested in what I am trying to say, simply take a few moments to adjust your color levels accordingly. Make the water a very light shade, and the land a very rich color. This contrast will allow your land to come forward and pop. ...Try it !
You attempted it once at the beginning of this thread, but you did not take it far enough. If you remember, that was the first thing that people suggested. These first impressions are dead on. "New eyes" are very useful, use them. They are far more objective because they have NOT been starring at it for hours upon hours.

Again, I like this map. Good luck with it.

I entirely disagree. The dark blue sea works well with the land colors. The negative space is filled nicely.

What can I say, I'm a "dark water guy", there are plenty of "light water guys" around too. They are usually wrong though.

Iam a dark water guy as well, but when you have most of the positive space in the way of tiny specks of land, it is best to go the other way.

[thenobodies80]

This is the perfect example of what i said, is not possible to sodisfy all!

Anyways we have to stop with this argument (this isn't the right place) and continue the map review.

I think that the most part of communty like our map.
And there's only few things to fix.

[thenobodies80]

I decide to release the new "version" now:

The Wallis & Futuna - Western Samoa connection could be confused as being islands. Space them out a bit more perhaps?

We spaced the wallis & futuna circles

the only change i would make is the attack route to Marquesas, could you change it so the dots don't go through the islands, it looks ok in the other places you did it, but in this case i think it needs to change.

We change the marquesas-tahiti air route ( no more over islands)


We fixed some bad pixels on names (we did a pixel by pixel work ).
So we hope that this version (6.5) sodisfy the community.
Remember this is a game, not a work...

Version 6.5

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[the.killing.44]

I entirely disagree. The dark blue sea works well with the land colors. The negative space is filled nicely.

What can I say, I'm a "dark water guy", there are plenty of "light water guys" around too. They are usually wrong though.

I'm with mibi here (as well as you nobody ) the dark is the best option.
I guess I'm fine with the text now … could be better but it's perfectly FF ready

.44

[mibi]

If you really wanted to harmonize the feng shui of this map, you would vertically flip the shark.

[RjBeals]

If you really wanted to harmonize the feng shui of this map, you would vertically flip the shark.

[porkenbeans]

Lol, Take it easy on these guys aye,
I don't know if they would understand and/or appreciate the humor.

Hey, While your at it, Try flipping hor. and vert.. Then switch places with the surfer.

Hey, you guys were wright about the water. After I took more time to study it, I figured out what was messing with my eyes. It's all those bright white lines.

Click image to enlarge.

[samuelc812]

I really do think this map has been done superbly, very clean and colourful and done to perfection. In my honest opinion i believe this map thoroughly deserves to advance to the final forge.

I also have one little request, i don't know if a new zealander has told you the names for the territories of New Zealand. But if i were the mapmaker i would change a few of the names to better reflect the countries major cities.

• Change Southland to Dunedin
• Change Canterbury to Christchurch
• Change Northland to Auckland

Congrats guys, move this map over

Disagree here Sam - all of the territories on the map are not cities - why should New Zealands territories be cities?
(Note Wellington is a city and a region)

C.

I understand your point yeti, and i now that i know the logic behind it, i guess those names are fine

[thenobodies80]

About what asked mibi, we are still doing some test to harmonize map, and work on shark could be a good option.
And we happily try to switch it with the surfer, porkenbeans, if the result looks good we happily switch them definitively.
And we can understand, we are not english, not stupid!
About air routes, you're the first that don't like our choice. So i look to your words with a strange feeling...
I'm honoured you has spent time on my map and i'm happy you did a test version ( i like you give us a visual explanation, easy to understand).
But i want respond to your suggestion with a question :

Could be a good chioce?You did dark blue lines on a blue background? Have you test your idea on the smaller version?


Exactly 3 questions...

Anyways...I did it, and i sure you that if we will make air routes with another color you can't understand what territory can attack another one.
And finally in my opinion the dark line are nauseating on these colors ( generally speaking, not yours, i know you did only a test )
Probably we can test with less brightness on air routes, could be better, but lines are white and will be white
Thank you

I'm happy that Sam is agree with .C (and us)
Sorry i missed to explain what we decided with community members
Thank you .C for a better explanation.

Thank you guys.

Thenobodies80

[porkenbeans]

If you take a look at your map without any lines at all, you really can see the beauty of it. But as soon as you add the lines, it is obscured. And when you make them as bright as they are, it is akin to shinning a light in the eyes of the beholder. Let the focus be on the art, not the attack routes. It is not difficult to tell where the connections are. There is no need to make them the focus. I did a test with all of the lines in blue, and all of a sudden the colorful islands jumped forward, as did the text. The attack routes were clear to see , but they no longer dominated the map and the very nice art work.

[thenobodies80]

If you take a look at your map without any lines at all, you really can see the beauty of it. But as soon as you add the lines, it is obscured. And when you make them as bright as they are, it is akin to shinning a light in the eyes of the beholder. Let the focus be on the art, not the attack routes. It is not difficult to tell where the connections are. There is no need to make them the focus. I did a test with all of the lines in blue, and all of a sudden the colorful islands jumped forward, as did the text. The attack routes were clear to see , but they no longer dominated the map and the very nice art work.

not agree, when i play a game i'm interested on understand very well where i can attack and where i can be attacked by others players.
This is more important in a map with a big number of little spot.
As said i will reduce the brightness of air routes but don't change colors.
As gameplay requires all has to be clear for game and attack routes are an important part of gameplay.
I know that routes layout is done in despite of beauty but we are going to do a game map not a art work.
But i like to know Pikkio opinions before give you my final response.

[porkenbeans]

If you take a look at your map without any lines at all, you really can see the beauty of it. But as soon as you add the lines, it is obscured. And when you make them as bright as they are, it is akin to shinning a light in the eyes of the beholder. Let the focus be on the art, not the attack routes. It is not difficult to tell where the connections are. There is no need to make them the focus. I did a test with all of the lines in blue, and all of a sudden the colorful islands jumped forward, as did the text. The attack routes were clear to see , but they no longer dominated the map and the very nice art work.

not agree, when i play a game i'm interested on understand very well where i can attack and where i can be attacked by others players.
This is more important in a map with a big number of little spot.
As said i will reduce the brightness of air routes but don't change colors.
As gameplay requires all has to be clear for game and attack routes are an important part of gameplay.
I know that routes layout is done in despite of beauty but we are going to do a game map not a art work.
But i like to know Pikkio opinions before give you my final response.

The attack routes are important in that they are clear. This does not mean that you should make them the foreground. I have personally spent much time pondering this very dilemma, whenever I am working on my maps.

I always find it a shame, when I have to add lines on a beautiful picture. Or when I have to color the land. It sucks, but it is a game, and you do need to make attack routes clear and un-ambiguous. or you can choose to use letters, and/or symbols to accomplish this, but that has its draw backs as well.

I believe that you made the wright choice by going with lines, on this particular map. The trick here is to make the ugly lines retreat into the background, and still have them un-ambitious. Can you not tell, that there is no question in clarity, with the lines in dark blue. As a matter of fact, I believe that you can get away with making them a tad lighter. Keep them just dark enough so to distinguish them from the water. This will allow you to diminish there over powering effect.

I wish you luck, and I can't wait until I can play on this map. I hope that you at least take a moment to actually try and experiment with what I suggested. I am truly only trying to be helpful.

[the.killing.44]

we are going to do a game map not a art work.

That's it. pork, I understand what you're saying, but CC is a RISK site, not an art site. Of course things look better without dotted lines or border markers on them, but they're necessary. I think that the dots are fine.

.44

[porkenbeans]

we are going to do a game map not a art work.

That's it. pork, I understand what you're saying, but CC is a RISK site, not an art site. Of course things look better without dotted lines or border markers on them, but they're necessary. I think that the dots are fine.

.44

You are an idiot 44. You say that you understand, but you do NOT have a clue.

[the.killing.44]

we are going to do a game map not a art work.

That's it. pork, I understand what you're saying, but CC is a RISK site, not an art site. Of course things look better without dotted lines or border markers on them, but they're necessary. I think that the dots are fine.

.44

You are an idiot 44. You say that you understand, but you do NOT have a clue.

lol

.44

[porkenbeans]

we are going to do a game map not a art work.

That's it. pork, I understand what you're saying, but CC is a RISK site, not an art site. Of course things look better without dotted lines or border markers on them, but they're necessary. I think that the dots are fine.

.44

You are an idiot 44. You say that you understand, but you do NOT have a clue.

.44

OK let me get this straight, You agree with me that it looks better without dots and border markings. You also agree with me that this is a game and they are necessary.
...So your solution is to make them as big and bright as possible ?

[the.killing.44]

OK let me get this straight, You agree with me that it looks better without dots and border markings.

Would the Mona Lisa look great with borders and bonus colors on her face, extremities, and torsos?

You also agree with me that this is a game and they are necessary.

Uh, yeah …

...So your solution is to make them as big and bright as possible ?

My solution is to make them so they're the best suited for gameplay. Your black ones are hard to see and would lead to confusion in-game. Great, he could tone down the opacity a bit. But your going way over the top.

.44

[porkenbeans]

OK let me get this straight, You agree with me that it looks better without dots and border markings.

Would the Mona Lisa look great with borders and bonus colors on her face, extremities, and torsos?

You also agree with me that this is a game and they are necessary.

Uh, yeah …

...So your solution is to make them as big and bright as possible ?

My solution is to make them so they're the best suited for gameplay. Your black ones are hard to see and would lead to confusion in-game. Great, he could tone down the opacity a bit. But your going way over the top.

.44

If you cant see them, you are blind as a bat.

[thenobodies80]

Please no useless discussions.
I like to continue discussion on map.

[gimil]

The issue here seems to be wether the white attacks lines should be reduced in opacity, no?

I see the benefits of reducing the opacity so that the maps athetics can come throught, I would also personally be satisfied if they were left as is. I really think it is a matter of opinion in the end.

The duiscussion seems to be getting a little heated in here. Chill out guys, If i come back in here and there is any more flame I will put the thread on a 24 hour chill out session.

[thenobodies80]

The issue here seems to be wether the white attacks lines should be reduced in opacity, no?

I see the benefits of reducing the opacity so that the maps athetics can come throught, I would also personally be satisfied if they were left as is. I really think it is a matter of opinion in the end.

The duiscussion seems to be getting a little heated in here. Chill out guys, If i come back in here and there is any more flame I will put the thread on a 24 hour chill out session.

Thank you Sir

[the.killing.44]

don't worry gimil - nobodies and myself have been talking about this. no chill out session needed … here
i stand by my FF-ready statement

.44

[porkenbeans]

Listen up knuckleheads,
I was sent a pm by the admins to come here and give some helpful advice. This is an attempt to create a juridic process of interested individuals, to help with the foundries quality, and efficiency. Some of the stale old regulars perceive this as a threat to their pecking order or something. That is why I started The Map Factory. There is need for a place where people can come together for a common cause. The makers of this map are asked to come by and visit our thread and if you are interested in joining us, meet the one requirement and you can both be members.

If not, thats cool, I still wish you luck on this super map. I will be looking for it to hit the roster, as I would like to be the first one to play it.

I do not think that I will be taking them up on their invitations to come and comment on any more projects. At least until some things change around here.