anonymousguy54 and Heart of Space ... [noted]

[army of nobunaga]

Accused:

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=132469
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=131344
xxxxxxx



The accused are suspected of:


Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Other: They are good at this, and I doubt there will be proof... I just wanted to put their names out as probable cheaters... You cannot prove a murder without a weapon, but sometimes everything points to a suspect... right? At least this is in the Hard drive when ppl search for their names that get screwed by these "friends" too.



Game number(s):4451825

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?gam ... 5#map-cell



Comments: At least read the in game chat.. it will probably entertain you. My gut and their past logs point towards them helping each other out. Im still pouring through logs, ill post here if I see proof that is hard.

[Heart of Space]

AG and I are friend, admittedly, but we're not cheats. We used to play risk all the time at his house when we were in high school, but we both went off to college, and playing these games is how we replace that part of our lives. We don't share info, we don't do coordinated attacks, we don't violate any rule on Conquer Club. Playing games together is not evidence of cheating. We've played in games together against literally hundreds of other conquer club opponents and no one ever saw fit to accuse us of cheating before this guy looks that we've played together and assumes "oh, they must be cheats!" I've probably been killed more often by AG than any other player on this site. This accusation is both baseless and ludicrous. Nobunaga can't even find evidence for our supposed cheating in the game we played with him. If anyone would actually like to confront us with some evidence or a situation where they think we acted suspiciously, I'd be more than happy to rebut their claims. Barring that, this is just using the system to flame us because he lost a game.

[army of nobunaga]

you guys kill each otehr 1) when the other needs the cards and the guy he is killing is dead in the water in that game 2) after one gets points.. its like every log..

that is a touching story... but dont good friends play together?

[Heart of Space]

you guys kill each otehr 1) when the other needs the cards and the guy he is killing is dead in the water in that game 2) after one gets points.. its like every log..

that is a touching story... but dont good friends play together?

I can assure you, I've never given up a kill just so he can stay in a game. He's poached a fair few of mine though when I've flamed out, and I've done the same countless times. And no, gee wilikers. We accumulate kills in the games we play? Really? We must be cheats, right? Couldn't possibly be because we're both good players, know how to scan the game chats to figure out where people are, and have clickable maps, could it? I'll repeat it again. Find a specific situation and accuse us. Stop with this shadow boxing. Your argument is, we play games together, therefor we must be cheats. Don't you see how flawed that is?

[Heart of Space]

Oh, and by the by, we do have many doubles games in there... Just take a look. Not quite as fun as terminators though, or as forgiving.

[army of nobunaga]

dont you see how if you played a basketball game called "21" or a game of dodgeball or any game where everyone is against everyone in real life.. and two lifelong friends come in that play the game at the same time ALL the time and they usually win with each other... MAY .. just MAYBE might be looked at as suspicious?! like I said, you are in the database now for anyone else that wants to complain, they can search this post out and see they are not alone.

[Heart of Space]

Look, I understand why you're suspicious, but what bothers me about all of this is that there's no way to defend against this accusation. Even if the admin just comes along and marks this "noted," the next time someone's pissed because one of us beat them, the next admin, with the same lack of evidence, is gonna ban us or whatever they do for this type of situation. You haven't confronted us with any evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever, and you can't even tell us what you suspect us of in the game that you played against us. It's frustrating. If I could have you sit next to one of us while we play these things to prove you wrong, I would, but I can't.

As to the idea that one of us usually wins these things, we're both majors and usually we're playing against lieutenants and sergeants. In equilibrium, one would expect the majors in the game to be more successful. I personally sit back, scan the game log until I know where someone is who has a lot of cards, and then I attack. I imagine he has a similar strategy. This works wonders against weaker players with less patience who are lured by the villages.

So for whoever the moderator is that looks over this case, do what you think the hard evidence suggests you should do, but while you're doing it, let us know what we'd have to do to further demonstrate our innocence. The answer can't just be "don't play games together." This is really frustrating...

[army of nobunaga]

the only "proof" I have is a pattern from logs... personally I hope you guys are telling the truth, there is nothing more pathetic than a cheater in CC. I mean at least cheat on ACT or SAT where it counts..

I just wanted to say my piece and foe you guys... Good luck.

[Bones2484]

Friends should not be playing public FFA games "against" each other. Even if you don't intend on doing anything wrong, you will be accused over and over again.

If you really do want to compete against one another, make a private game and invite some people that you can trust not to throw a fit.

[Kotaro]

Friends should not be playing public FFA games "against" each other. Even if you don't intend on doing anything wrong, you will be accused over and over again.

If you really do want to compete against one another, make a private game and invite some people that you can trust not to throw a fit.

Uhh, no. Friends should do whatever they want. Hell, I beat up my friend laxguy in all sorts of games. There's no rules against playing someone you know, and if people don't liek it, there's a foe list.

[Mr Changsha]

Friends should not be playing public FFA games "against" each other. Even if you don't intend on doing anything wrong, you will be accused over and over again.

If you really do want to compete against one another, make a private game and invite some people that you can trust not to throw a fit.

Uhh, no. Friends should do whatever they want. Hell, I beat up my friend laxguy in all sorts of games. There's no rules against playing someone you know, and if people don't liek it, there's a foe list.

I seriously disagree with Kotaro. My best friend plays on this site and I would NEVER play in a competitive (public) game with him...however fun it might be. The simple fact, is that I would rather see him win, than any other player in the game if I can't find the win myself.

No idea if the two accused are actually cheating (though playing fog games is suggestive), but I would also say that they really shouldn't play these kinds of games together. Just because it isn't against the rules of CC, doesn't mean that it isn't against the rules of sportsmanship.

[Kotaro]

I seriously disagree with Kotaro. My best friend plays on this site and I would NEVER play in a competitive (public) game with him...however fun it might be. The simple fact, is that I would rather see him win, than any other player in the game if I can't find the win myself.

No idea if the two accused are actually cheating (though playing fog games is suggestive), but I would also say that they really shouldn't play these kinds of games together. Just because it isn't against the rules of CC, doesn't mean that it isn't against the rules of sportsmanship.

Thanks for your opinion, but it's still not a rule. And "suggesting" cheating and "cheating" are two very different things. All you've proven is that YOU can't be trusted to play games with your friends. I play against my friends all the time, in random games, whenever we happen to find one where we're interested in fighting; just because you can't be trusted, doesn't mean others of us can't.

[Kotaro]

MrChang, I don't want you to take that as a flame. But there are plenty of us out there that, not only are we unbiased against others over our friends, we're probably, if anything, more biased that are friends lose, rather then win. And there's plenty of us that, after a game starts, simply doesn't discuss the game until it is over. It's relaly not that hard to simply NOT talk about a game until it's done, and to try and win.

[Bones2484]

Friends should not be playing public FFA games "against" each other. Even if you don't intend on doing anything wrong, you will be accused over and over again.

If you really do want to compete against one another, make a private game and invite some people that you can trust not to throw a fit.

Uhh, no. Friends should do whatever they want. Hell, I beat up my friend laxguy in all sorts of games. There's no rules against playing someone you know, and if people don't liek it, there's a foe list.

I'm sorry that you are incapable of comprehending what I wrote, Kotaro.

But I never said that there's a "rule". I just said that if you don't want to get accused, you shouldn't play with friends in public non-team games. There will always be the potential of someone getting annoyed if you do it... so it's just best not to.

These guys are premiums, they can easily make private games.

[LB Ninja]

haha i play with friends all the time. Theres like 3 or 4 of them that are my best friends in RL and its really fun playing against them in games. Theres nothing in the rules saying players cant play friends and there shouldnt be. These two dont cheat. Ive played them both many of times and they both play for themselves to win and neither of them to my knowledge have thrown a game for the other to win.

[Kotaro]

I'm sorry that you are incapable of comprehending what I wrote, Kotaro.

Friends should not be playing public FFA games "against" each other.

Seems pretty simple and straight forward.

[Bones2484]

Ive played them both many of times and they both play for themselves to win and neither of them to my knowledge have thrown a game for the other to win.

Public standard games that involve LB Ninja, Heart of Space, anonymousguy54:

no matching games found

I'm sorry that you are incapable of comprehending what I wrote, Kotaro.

Friends should not be playing public FFA games "against" each other.

Seems pretty simple and straight forward.

Easy to take bits of a post out of context, isn't it? How about the rest of it where I basically say they've done nothing wrong and to avoid this situation they should make private games?

[Kotaro]

Public standard games that involve LB Ninja, Heart of Space, anonymousguy54:

no matching games found

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=find

They're all Speed game players And dammmmmn LV, Doodle much?

Easy to take bits of a post out of context, isn't it? How about the rest of it where I basically say they've done nothing wrong and to avoid this situation they should make private games?

What does that matter? You start out by stating that friends should NEVER play together in public games. The rest about accusations and the like doesn't matter, you came in stating a precedent that friends should not play together, period.

[Heart of Space]

My thanks to LB Ninja for the testimonial.

Bones, the games we've played with LB weren't standard. They were terminator. Here's one as an example:

4192565

[Bones2484]

Easy to take bits of a post out of context, isn't it? How about the rest of it where I basically say they've done nothing wrong and to avoid this situation they should make private games?

What does that matter? You start out by stating that friends should NEVER play together in public games. The rest about accusations and the like doesn't matter, you came in stating a precedent that friends should not play together, period.

I don't think friends should play against each other in public games. I try to avoid playing other G1 members in public games whenever I can. It isn't worth people accusing you of alliances that can't be proven and then being blocked from ever playing with your friend just to avoid a "possible" situation by the mods. Obviously, it's not against the rules, and it shouldn't be.

Heart, I'm not saying you've done anything wrong. But if you're worried about being noted then blocked, it's easy to avoid.

[Heart of Space]

"Heart, I'm not saying you've done anything wrong. But if you're worried about being noted then blocked, it's easy to avoid.[/quote]

Yeah, I actually think your advice is sound. There's a bunch of people who play these terminators with us regularly who've never found anything amiss with our actions. We should just go private and invite them, rather than take this risk again...

[Bones2484]

Heart, I'm not saying you've done anything wrong. But if you're worried about being noted then blocked, it's easy to avoid.

Yeah, I actually think your advice is sound. There's a bunch of people who play these terminators with us regularly who've never found anything amiss with our actions. We should just go private and invite them, rather than take this risk again...

I didn't mean for it to sound like I was calling you cheats, if it did sound like that. I know exactly how it feels to want to beat your friends more than you want to beat people you don't know. And that is why I tend to only play private games with my clan mates outside of tournaments.

You'll just always run into players who are upset at losing to people with superior strategies. It's unavoidable in public games. And it's not worth being "noted" or "blocked" just because people get angry.

[Mr Changsha]

I seriously disagree with Kotaro. My best friend plays on this site and I would NEVER play in a competitive (public) game with him...however fun it might be. The simple fact, is that I would rather see him win, than any other player in the game if I can't find the win myself.

No idea if the two accused are actually cheating (though playing fog games is suggestive), but I would also say that they really shouldn't play these kinds of games together. Just because it isn't against the rules of CC, doesn't mean that it isn't against the rules of sportsmanship.

Thanks for your opinion, but it's still not a rule. And "suggesting" cheating and "cheating" are two very different things. All you've proven is that YOU can't be trusted to play games with your friends. I play against my friends all the time, in random games, whenever we happen to find one where we're interested in fighting; just because you can't be trusted, doesn't mean others of us can't.

Well, I'm not sure I have proven anything with regards to my own moral conduct either way. Beyond that however, consider two points: 1. Assume an 8 man public game with 4 real life friends involved. This fact changes the nature of the board. Shouldn't the other 4 players be at least aware of the unusual nature of that board? I believe so. Should they know about it before the game begins? I believe that too. Do you and your friends announce the fact? 2. As a keen student of human nature, I do believe that friendship has an influence over play on a Risk board. Maybe two friends are more likely to kill each other rather than less, but the simple fact is that in either case the very balance of the board has be changed.

There is no rule about this and I would think such a rule would be impossible to enforce anyway. Nonetheless, if your opponents are unwittingly playing in games where they don't have all the facts available to them with regards to the composition of the board, then that is not right. Rule or no rule.

[delboy01]

I have to say it does look suspitious from the number of wins each has in singles games where they both participate. I was also considering mentioning that LB Ninja should be added to the list of those investigated and then he posts in support of the two kind of confirming my thoughts.

The games are also mostly terminator so you don't have to win to pick up points. And in one of the assassin doodle games. one eliminates the others target. Come on that's pretty basic cheat stuff to say the least. Oh. I accidentally clicked wrong so my best mate wins!!! Oh please, come on!!

Game 4151066

I'm sure that the admins will look at all the games concerned. But bottom line. If you are mates you should NOT be playing public multiple player singles games together. Same team doubles by all means.

[Heart of Space]

The singles games were mostly months ago when be we both (me for the second time) purchased premium and were messing around with speed games when we were bored. As for the assassin game you pointed out, mistakes happen, especially when you're fumbling around with those goddamned dropdown menus I was using before I got clickable maps. Again, I've played in hundreds of assassin games in my CC career, and none of those players have ever suspected me of cheating. This is also why, in the one game you mentioned, none of those players saw fit to report me. I play to win, and by and large the people who play with me know that. When your sample size is literally hundreds of games, for ANY player you can sift through all of their game logs, and find something to support any crackpot theory you can come up with. In the laughable absence of evidence in this situation, such innuendo can take on a life of it's own. We don't deserve to be punished just because some dude can come up with a plausible theory of abuse, especially not when the theory to the contrary is every bit as if not more plausible.