Malta [Quenched]

[nyg5680]

its definately lookin good

[hulmey]

I agree with 1 but not with 2, what's the logic to removing no. 2?

The reason for removing the kirkop and paola unpassables would be to have more border continents!!!!

[Ruben Cassar]

Latest version of the map - 4.16

Amendments:

1. Swapped position of Land's End Bonus with Helipad in legend (Lone Prophet)

2. Added colons and + sign to bonuses in legend (Sully800)

3. Changed bonuses: Port il-Kbir from 4 to 3 and Punent ta' Malta from 5 to 4. Considered changing Parti Centrali bonus from 5 to 6 as it is a difficult continent to hold. Any feedback on this and the other bonuses?

[qeee1]

I agree with 1 but not with 2, what's the logic to removing no. 2?

The reason for removing the kirkop and paola unpassables would be to have more border continents!!!!

you know how long a battle it's been to get less border continents?

I say keep it because we need less.

[Ruben Cassar]

I agree with 1 but not with 2, what's the logic to removing no. 2?

The reason for removing the kirkop and paola unpassables would be to have more border continents!!!!

you know how long a battle it's been to get less border continents?

I say keep it because we need less.

The poll will decide. Anyone who wants to express his or her opinion can vote in the new poll which is crystal clear! Any feedback on the new bonuses people?

[MarVal]

I think, the number of borders is just right.

By the way, impressive map.
You made a splendid visibility map for playing the game.

Very, very nice. I hope we will soon playing it.

Grtz
MarVal

[Ruben Cassar]

I think, the number of borders is just right.

By the way, impressive map.
You made a splendid visibility map for playing the game.

Very, very nice. I hope we will soon playing it.

Grtz
MarVal

Thanks for the compliment MarVal. I am looking forward to play your Benelux map as well, and also to tour the Benelux again like I did a few years ago. Wonderful countries...

[Ruben Cassar]

So...no feedback on the new bonuses by anyone. I can assume that everyone likes them then? Andy can you final forge the map! :p Hehe. I guess that remark postpones the final forge by another month right Andy?

[Enigma]

ok bonuses

-pink looks good
-orange looks good
-im not sure y yellow is more, it only has 1 more territory than orange and less attack routes. id make it 3
-dk blue has the same number of territories as yellow, and only 1 more border. however there are more attack routes. id say it was a tossup between 4 and 5, not 5 and 6. and only 5 if u really need variety.
-grey looks good. btw, does San Pawl border Mellieha? if it doesnt i think you need to add one more tree and make sure there is no gap on the coastline. Same with Ghajn and Mgarr, and Xaghra and Nadur.
-light purple looks good
-dk green looks good
-i think cyan should be 3 for the same reason as yellow. after all, it already has the possibility of an extra bonus by way of lands end which is conviently connected by helipad. and does that lands end bonus need to be 2? ya, its nice if you only have those 2 territories, but it seems relatively easy to hold both cyan and orange, and then you automatically get a bonus of not 6, but 8. may add a nice strategic element though.
-light green looks good

now, regarding dk blue, i think ideally it should be four and then also have the capital city bonus. that makes 4 for geographical reasons but adds an interesting extra. however, i realize that this is probably geographically innacurate. my biggest issue with bonuses is not exactly how large they are, but rather that they are in proportion to each other.

the more i look at this map the more i like it . for some reason it reminds me of the british isles map. generally small and easy to manage.

[Ruben Cassar]

Thanks for your feedback Enigma. I will be evaluating your detailed suggestions about the bonuses. The areas you mentioned don't border, I will make that clearer in the next update. Anyone else who wants to comment on bonuses or anything else is welcome.

Edit: I have checked the bonuses and done some evaluations.

Yellow has 1 more territory than Orange but it has the same attack routes as Orange not less, and that's why it gets 4 and not 3. Orange also has the Land's End bonus.

Cyan has 6 attack routes and is hard to defend. That's why it gets 4 and not 3 even though it has the Land's End bonus.

[AndyDufresne]

Most likely yeah. Those who are eager to get into Final Forge...just make it tougher on themselves.

Well lets see...first visuals and things of that nature:

• The map is looking nice, and less cluttered. But I don't think those little decorative images add much to the map, and look a little odd just placed into the ocean. I wouldn't mind seeing the map even cleaner, and them gone.
  
• The title looks better, as does that whole area, I like it.
  
• Regarding the bonus legend, it also looks better, but I'd still like to see the descriptions taken down a font size or so. But that is just my opinion.
  
• Your impassable borders look tremendously better. Are you going to use all those different kinds, or are you looking to narrow it down to 2 or so? I think the mountains and the trees are best, and as Keyogi suggested I think, they need to be cluttered up in some sections so they feel like a mountain range and not triangles. You definitely need to make sure that the impassables clearly define the borders. Take for instance, Xaghra and Nadur in the North. Do they border? The mountains seem to block, but still some land touches. Need to fix that. Also take a closer look at Xewkija and Xlendi, Victoria and Fontana, Ghajn and Mgarr, Mellieha and San Pawl, Mosta and Mdina, Attard and Zebbug, Paola and Luqa, Cottonera and Marsas. Thicken up the amount of the mountains and other impassable borders...we don't want to see the voids in between them.
  
• Some of your borders don't look similar to others. Take a look at Zejtun and Fgura, San Giljan and the areas near there in that continent and the countries in the blue. The same goes for the green continent and areas near it. It looks like they are overlapping nearly. Also, the 1px pencil lines...might look into increasing that size.
  
• I know I've said this before, but I'm going to say it again, because I think it is a problem. Color choices and placement. I know a number of people, while talking in team chat (and other alliances made in standard games), will only use the continent's color in reference to it, as it can be easier...something I see many people doing with this map, due to the names of the continents. Sure, you can pick off the first word in each, but I assume more people will go for the simpler color route. That said, having Blue and Light Blue next to each other, may not be a great idea, and may cause general confusion. And not to mention you've got Cyan blue in the North, and ... Green Cream in the north also. Also, again with the brightness of the south compared to the north. It seems off balance. I think you can keep the colors of yellow, blue, gray, green, magenta, orange, but maybe look into a deeper red and perhaps purple and some other colors for other areas. Definitely look into the tone and shades also.

Now lets look more at the game play changes that have taken place:

• Port il-Kbir -- 5 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 3. //// Due to the low number of countries and higher amount of borders, I think 3 is a sufficient bonus. Anything less wouldn't do it justice, but 4 seems pushing too much.
  
• Nofsinhar Malta -- 5 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 3. //// Exact copy of Port il-Kbir.
  
• Punent Malta -- 6 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 3. //// Does one more country justify the bonus of 4? It almost makes more sense if you make Nofsinhar Malta a bonus of 4, push this down to three..as Nofsinhar has the valuable Helipad...perhaps allowing that to be worth a bump in bonus value. But then you might have to say if you bump Nofsinhar Port deserves a bump due to it's reach of the North, but I think the Capital City bonus essentially does that.
  
• Parti Centrali -- 6 Countries, 4 Borders, Bonus of 5. //// Looking at the number of both borders and countries, bonus of 5 seems to do it justice...as 6 seems too much...having a bonus for each country? I don't think so.
  
• Lvant Malta -- 4 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 3. //// Again, looking at the number, if you go the route of the one area above, it seems alright.
  
• Tramuntana Malta -- 3 Countries, 2 Borders, Bonus of 2. //// Same goes for this continent as the two above.
  
• Il-Ponta -- 4 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 3. //// Copy cat.
  
• Tramuntana Ghwadex -- 6 Countries, 2 Borders, Bonus of 4. //// This one seems a little off. Take a look at Punent. 1 more border but the same bonus. Unless you think having the helipad is justification for giving it essentially a bump in bonus to 4.
  
• Nofsinhar Ghawdex -- 3 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 2. //// If you go the route of not giving a +1 for each country, this seems alright...but it also seems maybe slightly under bonused...due to the fact it has 3 borders. What about removing the Fontana and San Lawrenz border, and making a Victoria and Xlendi border? That wouldn't change gameplay so much, as Victoria would take the place of being another border for Tramuntana Ghwadex, while giving Nofsinhar only 2 borders for a bonus of 2. That seems a little more reasonable.

Wooho. I think I've covered the things I currently want to. I'll check back again when I've more time, as this most took a while.


--Andy

[happysadfun]

Complete agreeingness.

[Enigma]

suggestion on colours- take a look at the middle earth map. it has a very similar colour scheme, you may be able to use the red, for example.
i personally really like the hills, theyre unique... *holds out for hills*

[edit- omg happy. ur sig. "rope...tree..." *dies with laughter*]

[Ruben Cassar]

Thanks for the recent feedback people. I am evaluating your suggestions and I will be working on them when I have some free time. I might need some advice from your side on colour shades and placement as well, so any further comments on that issue will be appreciated.

[Ruben Cassar]

I have changed the colours of Red and made it deeper and Azure to Purple. Is it better this way? Doesn't feel like it is...

[Enigma]

I think you can keep the colors of yellow, blue, gray, green, magenta, orange, but maybe look into a deeper red and perhaps purple and some other colors for other areas

Is it better this way? Doesn't feel like it is...

i agree. dont change the magenta! add the red somewhere else, perhaps? the purple might be better in tramuntana, though it doesnt look like you have the same texture under it.

[Ruben Cassar]

i agree. dont change the magenta! add the red somewhere else, perhaps? the purple might be better in tramuntana, though it doesnt look like you have the same texture under it.

Yes I will have to work more on the colours. The fact that I am mild colour blind doesn't help either! Maybe I can try shifting the colours to other regions as you suggested but I don't know if the program will let me do that at this stage. I will try again later. Thanks.

[Enigma]

Yellow has 1 more territory than Orange but it has the same attack routes as Orange not less, and that's why it gets 4 and not 3. Orange also has the Land's End bonus.

orange attack routes: 6 -- fgura/zejtun; fgura/luqa; kirkop/luqa; zurrieq/luqa; zurrieq/birzebbugia; via helipad.

yellow attack routes: 5 -- quormi/zebbug; quormi/kirkop; luqa/kirkop; luqa/zurrieq; birzebbugia/zurrieq.

[edit:]

Yes I will have to work more on the colours. The fact that I am mild colour blind doesn't help either! Maybe I can try shifting the colours to other regions as you suggested but I don't know if the program will let me do that at this stage. I will try again later. Thanks.

*grins* np- i can try to help w/ the colours if you like, if ur having trouble eyesight-wise or w/e.

[Ruben Cassar]

I have added some gradients now. Are the colours better this way?

[Ruben Cassar]

Yellow has 1 more territory than Orange but it has the same attack routes as Orange not less, and that's why it gets 4 and not 3. Orange also has the Land's End bonus.

orange attack routes: 6 -- fgura/zejtun; fgura/luqa; kirkop/luqa; zurrieq/luqa; zurrieq/birzebbugia; via helipad.

yellow attack routes: 5 -- quormi/zebbug; quormi/kirkop; luqa/kirkop; luqa/zurrieq; birzebbugia/zurrieq.

Hmm...I think you are right. I was actually counting the territories you would have to defend and not the attack routes, but I think I made a mistake in that sense as well. That Qormi - Kirkop border isn't very clear either...maybe I should make it more prominent or else make it impassable.

[Guiscard]

Lose the gradients they make it look mucky. My problem with the colours is that they are in very similar 'bands'. Three quite bright colours at the bottom, 3 dark dingy ones in the middle and 3 lighter pastel shades at the top. Is that confusing? Sorry if I'm being a bit silly. You could mix up the colours a bit so there are one strong, one light and one dark colour in each 'band'

[Enigma]

Lose the gradients they make it look mucky. My problem with the colours is that they are in very similar 'bands'. Three quite bright colours at the bottom, 3 dark dingy ones in the middle and 3 lighter pastel shades at the top. Is that confusing? Sorry if I'm being a bit silly. You could mix up the colours a bit so there are one strong, one light and one dark colour in each 'band'

ya, the gradients make it loose the mediterranean feel. good idea bout mixing the colours up guiscard

[Ruben Cassar]

Lose the gradients they make it look mucky. My problem with the colours is that they are in very similar 'bands'. Three quite bright colours at the bottom, 3 dark dingy ones in the middle and 3 lighter pastel shades at the top. Is that confusing? Sorry if I'm being a bit silly. You could mix up the colours a bit so there are one strong, one light and one dark colour in each 'band'

ya, the gradients make it loose the mediterranean feel. good idea bout mixing the colours up guiscard

Okay I will work on something along those lines. I had actually put the similar colours next to each other because I had understood that it was one of the problems with one of the much earlier versions of the game. I guess I understood wrongly! I will try to fix that now.

[Guiscard]

I don;t think you misunderstood, they can still clash, but its just gone too far the other way in my opinion. too similar.

[Ruben Cassar]

I don;t think you misunderstood, they can still clash, but its just gone too far the other way in my opinion. too similar.

Which colours should I swap in your opinion? Should I just swap the colours without toning them or replacing them with new colours?