Gilly754 LFAW [Warned]

[KoE_Sirius]

LFAW is a Master of Feudal.he wins game and doesnt need help.

It's not whether he needs, or wants, or even asks for help, that's being questioned. It's whether he gets help.

Thats why I wrote "no such evidence exists".
If you are going to quote me.Please do not edit it in such a way.Its dishonest !

[lancehoch]

Sirius, I just posted three posts ago to not post if you are not posting useful information. You have now posted twice without providing any information, please either give proof or do not post.

[LFAW]

Proof:

As I've stated, LFAW is an excellent player and an honourable one. FYI, he has a 61% win ratio for Feudal War according to map rank (701/1156). With multi-player games with Gilly754 in those games, his win percentage is 71% (won 25/35). Now, if Gilly754 showed favoritism towards LFAW, that's a completely different story and something that a) has been over-looked, and b) nothing that LFAW has any power over. And, if LFAW REALLY wanted to win some points, he would simply set up some Feudal games and easily rise up the ranks. He's been there, done that. And realistically, in the end this accusation is over 20 points. I'm sure that if LFAW had lost that amount, it would be like spilled milk to him.

Further more to my previous post would like to add this. Have just played a one on one with Gilly. SORRY GILLY, this may sting a little. It was mentioned earlier, but Gilly isn't exactly the best feudal player out, with our respective starting positions, I know of about 8players UFAW included that would have smoked me. I managed to win quite comfortably.......

And Lance, I respect your wishes to have evidence but what evidence can I give? Do I post Game Logs and highlight nothing as theres nothing to highlight?

The Evidence I have is the fact people know I am an honourable player and smoke anyone and everyone on feudal (except 101aces that guy is a GOD ) as those are most of the games that Fitz is highlighting it must be taken into consideration.

Tell me Lance, what evidence can you post to show there is nothing there? Post nothing?

LFAW

[AAFitz]

Proof:

As I've stated, LFAW is an excellent player and an honourable one. FYI, he has a 61% win ratio for Feudal War according to map rank (701/1156). With multi-player games with Gilly754 in those games, his win percentage is 71% (won 25/35). Now, if Gilly754 showed favoritism towards LFAW, that's a completely different story and something that a) has been over-looked, and b) nothing that LFAW has any power over.

LFAW

First, you could explain why you posted that no one ever accused you of cheating besides me, when there were many that I quoted. This doesnt really fit the definition of an honorable player.

Second. the numbers that he showed actually more suggest that there was cheating. The 61% is what you win with gilly in the game, as opposed to out of the game with 50%.

Third. he is actually agreeing that gilly could be throwing games. The fact is however that you do have power over that. You could have stopped joining games with gilly, especially since you were getting complaints in many games about cheating. Instead you kept joining more and more.

This is not proof that actually helps you. The proof that you would have had, was that in fact you played all those games, and no one ever suspected a thing. I assure you, If I never saw one mention of it, I would not have been so sure myself.

It is actually the fact that you are a good player which makes it obvious something is not right here. You are a good player, and it had to be clear to you that he was throwing games, since its so obvious in so many, and to so many in those games.

But once again I ask. Why did you state, that no one ever accused you in those games of cheating, when many did?

[LFAW]

Fitz, have you looked at the people that you bolded that supposedly accused us of cheating?

Shizumu: A KNOWN whiner and complainer
Detoorteg: He says it nearly every game he loses in...
EckoJ: Actually said Foed for bad play, there is no accusation of cheating there
n8tius: Who the frick is this guy? Infact I think I remember the game, Supermax? I took everyone out of General Population and Courtyard, they had no chance. Yet again was just bad play by Gilly.
Bruceswar: No reference to cheating just accusing Gilly of Bad play

The last game is Chrisamo: No reference to cheating
Last but not least, AAfitz: Well hmm if we're gona use quotes of ourselves as evidence how about some of mine

Wow great move Gilly

GG Gilly, well played

See how pathetic it looks?

As I have been asked to by Lance, I am going to go through all the games referenced by AAfitz. Here we go.

Game 2594581 No cheating at all. Looking at log nothing there, looking at chat

2008-06-06 10:39:48 - LFAW: erm red (Gilly)
2008-06-06 10:39:53 - LFAW: your a dick

LOL

Game 3313977 (Bolded by Fitz) LOL look at it, I mopped up they (all 3 of them) are all hereby accused of throwing me a game for awful play... happy fitz? Dunno how this was Gilly at all looking at log and chat.

Game 3314734 That game was awesome, so close and a massive storyline. No reference in Chat or Log to cheating. Except Shizumu saying Danryan and Gilly let me win... yeah sure, hes just whining.

Game 3314904 Easy round 10 win, 2 players had a fight, I mopped em up, Gilly tried to stop me, was too late as I had too many armies

Game 2607626 Gilly killed Ecko, I killed the others... Round 10 win... no suicide here Ecko was just upset Gilly killed him.

Game 3315141 Look at log, Gilly attacked me more times then other player and I still won... Skill won me the game not any kind of throwing or cheating

Game 3321599 Gilly killed N8tius, N8 sulked coz he was killed, I mopped up after everyone hit eachother

Game 3344062 Was a normal game except my internet died soon after Gillys did meaning a few mised turns. Nothing in log to suggest cheating.

Game 2607743 We turned a game into a fun build game, lol was funny and I don't know how this was throwing me a game, he got equal armies and we attacked eachothers stacks to nothing, i had great dice so had 100 more leftover.

Game 3344515 Imperium Romanum game and I quote:

2008-09-26 17:55:55 - Gilly754: 10 armies later i finally get it
2008-09-26 18:07:24 - Gilly754: Blue/Yellow we have to hit red together if we want to win
2008-09-26 18:07:40 - Gilly754: otherwise he wins

I was red in this game, thrown game? I don't think so.

Game 3355345 Imperium Romanum game, I won, nothing to show cheating

Game 3355740 City Mogul game, nothing in game log and chat to suggest any game throwing.

Game 2672386 Feudal War game and I quote. No game throwing indication in log.

2008-06-18 14:12:08 - Crissipos: this game is red's, no matter what we do
2008-06-18 14:16:23 - Gilly754: blue truce to take down red for a bit??

Game 3355862 (bolded by Fitz), was a Speed game we organised by PM to build up as many armies as possible. His internet died so he deadbeated. I don't know how that was a thrown game...

Game 3362141 In this chat Heavenly supports my view of Shizumu, he doesn't know what hes talking about. Gilly was winning I took him down by allying with Heavenly. No thrown game.

Game 3362384 Nothing here but me kicking some ass, no indication in chat or log of a thrown game

Game 2672621 Just managed victory here by taking the castles close game if I remember rightly

Game 4221861 (Bolded by Fitz) as anyone can attest to, you can't throw an 8 man, I won this as I was quicker then Gilly. Yes teal had 1 territ but Gilly had to travel the map b4 I cashed and killed him, it was a race and I won. No throwing here.

Game 4258477 AAFitz' sulk game. I have already explained we hit eachother, read game log for proof.

Game 3122072 (Bolded by Fitz) Feudal game and I quote (I am green)

2008-08-25 14:59:43 - Gilly754: blue green is stronger so use your armies on him
2008-08-25 15:00:07 - LFAW: Lol how?

Log: Blue hit Gilly, Gilly tried to kill him for cards he failed (as supported by game chat) by 6 armies and I got the cards. Close game which I won.

Game 2712858 I had argument with Green, Gilly hit me, I mopped up by getting castles. Nothing to indicate thrown game in log.

Game 3162464 (Bolded by Fitz) why was this bolded? No indication of thrown game whatsoever in chat or log.

Game 3162793 (Bolded by Fitz and is apparently best indication of cheating) now I don't think im blind but what the hell? Where is the thrown game Where?! Someone tell me how this was thrown at all, I worked bloody hard for that win after missing 2 turns... No indication in LOG or CHAT.

Game 4231045 This is an assassin game, Gilly did nothing in this game so why this is there I don't know... LOL

There you go all games checked through, Admins, your thoughts.

[AAFitz]

Fitz, have you looked at the people that you bolded that supposedly accused us of cheating?

Shizumu: A KNOWN whiner and complainer ...oh, so because he complains, that means he didnt accuse you of cheating, and used the actual words...it was as if you guys had one account I guess this slipped your mind when you said no one ever accused you then.
Detoorteg: He says it nearly every game he loses in... but ironically in this one, gilly just happened to be the one that made the move that gave you the game
EckoJ: Actually said Foed for bad play, there is no accusation of cheating there : before in the chat he says that gilly demolished him...its pretty clear why hes mad
n8tius: Who the frick is this guy? Infact I think I remember the game, Supermax? I took everyone out of General Population and Courtyard, they had no chance. Yet again was just bad play by Gilly. I dont care who it is, the cheating claim was pretty straight forward
Bruceswar: No reference to cheating just accusing Gilly of Bad play yeah, he actually couldnt believe it.. he couldnt believe he one hit him, and then two couldnt win the game...

Supposedly? The accusations are pretty clear. So, when you said "no one has every accused you other than me in the games, you meant...

Others have accused me, but like you they were wrong? Is that you're argument here? That you didnt lie. But that because you didnt believe you were cheating, then the cheating accusations werent really accusations. Do you even believe that. You actually let people call you honorable? It was a blatent lie, and you know it.



Further, its safe to bet that not many of these players knew you two played so many games together, or that you always won them. I too only suspected cheating throught the game, but gave you the benefit of the doubt. But not even knowing you and gilly were doubles partners, they still pointed out that red seemed to be working with you. Which of course once again, you conveniently forgot when you said there were no cheating accusations in those games.

Also, you joined all these games with gilly, your partner, knowing full well that he was making these bad moves that you argue accidentally helped you but that you are completely innocent.

Im also glad you did post those chats by gilly. There really was only so much I could put in here, but I was able to see the pattern you two had in many, if not most of all of the games.

You would start off suggesting the other two players would hit each other, which they often did. Then, you would make your move, and gilly would nail the last guy standing, which is almost exactly what you did in the game with me. It happened so often it was almost systematic.

You have an excuse for every game. I fully agree with everyone that you are certainly good enough not to be stupid to make every game ridiculously blatent, but that does not mean he still wasnt throwing them. the other people in the games thought they were.

as anyone can attest to, you can't throw an 8 man,

Thats the dumbest line yet. You will just say anything here. Anyone can throw an 8 player game and you know it. You won two 8 player games in a row with gilly, and in one two players couldnt even understand how gilly was making the moves he .
made. Instead of winning, he gave you the game.

Finally, you keep saying that you guys attacked each other a few times. Well, its obvious youre good enough to know that you have to do that or it will be too obvious. Even still in games you had multiple accusations which you denied. It is at the end of the game that gilly was deciding these. Its clear as day in so many.. The pattern is the same. He is just unloading on the other players, and a turn later, you take over. The fact that hes only won one, shows he is just suiciding. It really is ridiculous to deny it.

However, ive shown what I saw, and perhaps gave more evidence and put more time into a cheating accusation than has ever been done. You already lied through your teeth, so I cant believe a word you say anymore. Its clear you will say anything to try and get out of this. Its also clear by reading those chats that you were used to those complaints, and you had to know this was coming at some point. You guys played 37 games together, and I see more cheating accusations in those, than I have seen in all of my 6000 games. Its just sad. Im very glad I put the time in to show these games and what you were doing.

you lied
youve been accused multiple times
the logs show gilly almost always smashing the other player, especially right before you win
In some of those he admits hes suiciding into the other guy out of revenge...conveniently its not you hes killing.
and out of 37 games, he was only able to win one of them
your win rate jumps up to 73% when he is in your games.

All I can say is that you should have known better. You saw this clear as day, as anyone who is as good as you are can. You should have been the honorable player everyone says you are, and just kept this guy as your dubs partner, when it was clear what he was doing. But then, you did win a lot of games didnt you.

[demonfork]

Wow good work AAfitz, the evidence that you added to page 1 is some of the most damning evidence that I have ever seen in a case like this.

After reading through all of the game chat that you posted on page 1, there is no doubt in my mind that LFAW and Gilly754 habitual cheaters.

In light of all of your evidence, I would hope to see, at the very least, a point reset.

[Timminz]

LFAW is a Master of Feudal.he wins game and doesnt need help.

It's not whether he needs, or wants, or even asks for help, that's being questioned. It's whether he gets help.

Thats why I wrote "no such evidence exists".
If you are going to quote me.Please do not edit it in such a way.Its dishonest !

Get a grip. By only commenting on one of the two sentences you wrote, I was in no way implying that the other sentence did not exist. I'm not even implying that LFAW is cheating. I haven't even looked at the games. I was simply pointing out that your comment on him not "needing" help to win had absolutely nothing to do with what is being suggested by AAFitz. Besides, saying "there is no such evidence" is not, in itself, evidence. Why is it so crucial for me to quote it? Your arguments are either not relevant to the case, or just picking in semantics. Both of which, you can go right back to if you want. I really have no stake nor concern with this case, I just can't stand it when backwards logic poses as valid rebuttal.

[AAFitz]

Wow good work AAfitz, the evidence that you added to page 1 is some of the most damning evidence that I have ever seen in a case like this.

After reading through all of the game chat that you posted on page 1, there is no doubt in my mind that LFAW and Gilly754 habitual cheaters.

In light of all of your evidence, I would hope to see, at the very least, a point reset.

Well, honestly, i was surprised to find so much of it. Even I believed him when he said there were no other accusations in games that there werent, until I started looking. I think its clear gilly is giving him quite a few games here, however, the quantity actually really isnt all that large. I suspect he just let it happen and gained a few here and there. In fact, quite a few were supposedly going to be doubles games which gilly messed up the settings on. But I honestly dont know what to believe in the chat at this point. Only on the last 3 did he really win a bunch, and those were the two back to back 8 player wins. In any case, it really isnt a ton of points. Its more a good number of players that were cheated, and obviously felt they were cheated. I only posted any of this and put the time in to keep others from having to deal with this situation. I have to admit, I really was hoping LFAW was going to just agree to stop playing with gilly after I presented it. He really is getting rave reviews. But once I saw all the other people complaining, and so many games where gilly is just coming up with excuses for suiciding, I honestly couldnt believe it.

The punishment means nothing to me, and its not my call. Id actually argue against a point reset in a case like this usually. However, a warning or a block would seem sufficient. And now that ive posted this, its fairly obvious that they have to stop doing it anyways, which has been my only goal. Most so called honorable players would have agreed to do that when they saw their own stats, and multiple cheating accusations. I wish LFAW did this in the beginning and saved everyone a bunch of time. Cases like this are brutal, because any good player knows exactly how to make any given game look like theres no cheating. Thats why you have to look at the big picture, and everything all together. Even then its impossible to know how much of it was intended, but since many other people saw the same things...a fact that he really just tried to cover up...suggests he really did know what was going on here. It really is unfortunate too. Its such a small number of games and points. Why not just avoid the whole situation altogether and not even take the chance, especially after so many other players complaining.

[LFAW]

Wow good work AAfitz, the evidence that you added to page 1 is some of the most damning evidence that I have ever seen in a case like this.

After reading through all of the game chat that you posted on page 1, there is no doubt in my mind that LFAW and Gilly754 habitual cheaters.

In light of all of your evidence, I would hope to see, at the very least, a point reset.

Well, honestly, I was surprised to find so much of it. Even I believed him when he said there were no other accusations in games that there werent, until I started looking. I think its clear gilly is giving him quite a few games here, however, the quantity actually really isnt all that large. I suspect he just let it happen and gained a few here and there. In fact, quite a few were supposedly going to be doubles games which gilly messed up the settings on. But I honestly dont know what to believe in the chat at this point. Only on the last 3 did he really win a bunch, and those were the two back to back 8 player wins. In any case, it really isnt a ton of points. Its more a good number of players that were cheated, and obviously felt they were cheated. I only posted any of this and put the time in to keep others from having to deal with this situation. I have to admit, I really was hoping LFAW was going to just agree to stop playing with gilly after I presented it. He really is getting rave reviews. But once I saw all the other people complaining, and so many games where gilly is just coming up with excuses for suiciding, I honestly couldnt believe it.

The punishment means nothing to me, and its not my call. Id actually argue against a point reset in a case like this usually. However, a warning or a block would seem sufficient. And now that ive posted this, its fairly obvious that they have to stop doing it anyways, which has been my only goal. Most so called honorable players would have agreed to do that when they saw their own stats, and multiple cheating accusations. I wish LFAW did this in the beginning and saved everyone a bunch of time. Cases like this are brutal, because any good player knows exactly how to make any given game look like theres no cheating. Thats why you have to look at the big picture, and everything all together. Even then its impossible to know how much of it was intended, but since many other people saw the same things...a fact that he really just tried to cover up...suggests he really did know what was going on here. It really is unfortunate too. Its such a small number of games and points. Why not just avoid the whole situation altogether and not even take the chance, especially after so many other players complaining.

Have you just seen who you've got supporting you? I mean seriously? The most idiotic and retarded player on CC comes along and joins Fitz, what does that say about your arguments in this thread or judgement of a player?

I've been told by his friends in his own clan that KronomeD was his Multi and looking at the various abuse threads including babysitting and others about what this guy has done I am suprised you can even respond to such a statement. Seriously Demon, get out of C&A I know your name belongs here but you don't have to repsond.

And Fitz, lets highlight a few things you have said here:

Even I believed him when he said there were no other accusations in games that there werent

Thats because funny as it may seem people accuse eachother of alliances all the time, looking at the people that were accusing me who the hell apart from yourself takes it seriously? Its just them whining because they lost.

But once I saw all the other people complaining,

3 people

Even then its impossible to know how much of it was intended, but since many other people saw the same things...a fact that he really just tried to cover up...suggests he really did know what was going on here.

If theres NOTHING happening how the hell am I meant to cover up something that isn't there? MANY OTHERS?! There was 3 people, all of which are complainers and whiners and say that in nearly every game they play.
And tbh with you Fitz, how the hell am I meant to remember something from 6 months/9 months ago? Unlike you I do leave the computer to do other stuff. Especially when out of their mouths it comes so frequently. And No, The rest of the people you highlighted never made any accusation of Cheating.

Others have accused me, but like you they were wrong? Is that you're argument here? That you didnt lie. But that because you didnt believe you were cheating, then the cheating accusations werent really accusations. Do you even believe that. You actually let people call you honorable? It was a blatent lie, and you know it.

Blatant Lie Fitz? If I don't remember because I am so used to bollocks coming out of their mouths then how am I meant to remember about the cheating accusations?

Further, its safe to bet that not many of these players knew you two played so many games together, or that you always won them. I too only suspected cheating throught the game, but gave you the benefit of the doubt. But not even knowing you and gilly were doubles partners, they still pointed out that red seemed to be working with you. Which of course once again, you conveniently forgot when you said there were no cheating accusations in those games.

Many of the 3 Fitz? If there was so much cheating going on why did Shizumu and Detoorteg join more? Or are they throwing games aswell?

Also, you joined all these games with gilly, your partner, knowing full well that he was making these bad moves that you argue accidentally helped you but that you are completely innocent.

Im also glad you did post those chats by gilly. There really was only so much I could put in here, but I was able to see the pattern you two had in many, if not most of all of the games.

Here comes more bollocks to fill up a post and look like hes got some evidence...

You would start off suggesting the other two players would hit each other, which they often did. Then, you would make your move, and gilly would nail the last guy standing, which is almost exactly what you did in the game with me. It happened so often it was almost systematic.

1) This has happened in very few games but conveniently this is the one you mention as it means you can fill in the spaces between your arguments with crap including your own quotes.
2) What more likely happened is the following: I get two people to ally against the strongest player and I destroy them all. Its called GOOD PLAY. Infact just to prove this is the case in most 4 player games I play later on today I will find 4 player games without Gilly in it where people have been played by myself.
3) How many games did this actually happen in Fitz? 3 maybe?

You have an excuse for every game. I fully agree with everyone that you are certainly good enough not to be stupid to make every game ridiculously blatent, but that does not mean he still wasnt throwing them. the other people in the games thought they were.

Yet again I use the line 3 people, the other people would have numbered over 50. Furthermore 2 of the 3 people highlighted by yourself were in more of the games so clearly, they can't have felt very strongly about their accusation. Or perhaps they say it so often it is just a normal day occurence? Perhaps so

Thats the dumbest line yet. You will just say anything here. Anyone can throw an 8 player game and you know it. You won two 8 player games in a row with gilly, and in one two players couldnt even understand how gilly was making the moves he .
made. Instead of winning, he gave you the game.

No, it is not dumb, it is true. How you can throw an 8 man with so many good people around I don't know, I managed to sweep and yes coincedently also through good play Gilly managed to avoid the sweep as did grey. He had to travel half the map to get teals last territ, which he couldn't do. I killed it and swept from there.

*Imagines a court room* I would like to call Bruceswar to the stand may he shed some light on the esc game...

and as I have said before in the assassin Gilly couldn't have done anything to help me win and he didn't... I killed my target through good dice... How is that a thrown game? He couldn't have attacked any neutrals I had to go thru nor did he attack my target so how Fitz?

Finally, you keep saying that you guys attacked each other a few times. Well, its obvious youre good enough to know that you have to do that or it will be too obvious. Even still in games you had multiple accusations which you denied. It is at the end of the game that gilly was deciding these. Its clear as day in so many.. The pattern is the same. He is just unloading on the other players, and a turn later, you take over. The fact that hes only won one, shows he is just suiciding. It really is ridiculous to deny it.

As I have said before, LOOK AT THE GAME LOGS
Secondly, 3 people accused us, 2 of which joined more games and said nothing
Thirdly, I sound like a stuck record... someone change me, perhaps I could sing some Opera
Fourthly, yes I still deny it as there was nothing going on, I did nothing and Gilly did nothing. I won through skill and as attested by MANY more players then you can find in this thread, I do NOT need to cheat to win these games. Seeing as you only like figures and game chat let me find more later on this afternoon along with lots of 4 player games that I have won without Gilly.

However, ive shown what I saw, and perhaps gave more evidence and put more time into a cheating accusation than has ever been done. You already lied through your teeth, so I cant believe a word you say anymore. Its clear you will say anything to try and get out of this. Its also clear by reading those chats that you were used to those complaints, and you had to know this was coming at some point. You guys played 37 games together, and I see more cheating accusations in those, than I have seen in all of my 6000 games. Its just sad. Im very glad I put the time in to show these games and what you were doing.

Lol, you're so amazing Fitz, the time you have spent is trying to create an accusation out of a Statistic. and I haven't lied once? There is no lie here... I forgot about the cheating accusations as they didn't mean anything and nothing came of them. 2 of the players *stuck record* say it in almost every game they lose.

you lied
youve been accused multiple times
the logs show gilly almost always smashing the other player, especially right before you win
In some of those he admits hes suiciding into the other guy out of revenge...conveniently its not you hes killing.
and out of 37 games, he was only able to win one of them
your win rate jumps up to 73% when he is in your games.

All I can say is that you should have known better. You saw this clear as day, as anyone who is as good as you are can. You should have been the honorable player everyone says you are, and just kept this guy as your dubs partner, when it was clear what he was doing. But then, you did win a lot of games didnt you.

The admins can read the logs alot better then you can and like me and 99% of CC they will see that nothing happened, it was a god damn game and I won. Yes it a few times, woopdedo. Its happened far more many times no matter WHO was in the game.

As I have said before and I will do this afternoon check my 4 player stats against players like Boat4Hire and Shizumu and you will see my regular Pwning.

Tbh Fitz, with the amount of pms I have got about this everyone thinks you are a Sore Loser and a Whiner spending so much of your time to form a cheating thread out of a statistic.

Thank god you're not a multi hunter. Or anyone who wins a few games in a row will be doomed

Over to you admins, take in all evidence his and mine and read the logs.

Have fun,
LFAW

Btw Fitz so I don't have to read anymore of your crap and as many people have suggested, you're foed.

[AAFitz]

There are far more than 3 accusations of cheating. There is game after game of complaints. You said no one ever accused you in those games. Now you want me to believe you when you say you forgot or that they didnt count?

It seems your main argument to all these facts, is that the people making them, including myself have opinions that dont matter. There's certainly no love between demon and myself. In fact, in the last cheating thread, he was arguing that I was wrong, so he isnt trying to help me out. Besides, ive seen many secret alliance threads myself. Ive never seen anyone put so much into it either. Again, I get nothing out of this but lost time, and the chance to keep other players from being cheated, but sometimes it takes work to do that.

Since youve just degraded to personal attacks and lies here, and I have no evidence beyond the games and what Ive listed, Ill let this stand. If I feel Ive missed something, ill add it to the first page.

[LFAW]

There are far more than 3 accusations of cheating. There is game after game of complaints. You said no one ever accused you in those games. Now you want me to believe you when you say you forgot or that they didnt count?

I count 3. Show me some more. And yes I forgot because of the arguments stated in my last post.

It seems your main argument to all these facts, is that the people making them, including myself have opinions that dont matter. There's certainly no love between demon and myself. In fact, in the last cheating thread, he was arguing that I was wrong, so he isnt trying to help me out. Besides, ive seen many secret alliance threads myself. Ive never seen anyone put so much into it either. Again, I get nothing out of this but lost time, and the chance to keep other players from being cheated, but sometimes it takes work to do that.

That is a mere paragraph of my argument where I address the validity of the people that complained. I have supported my view by saying how 2 of the 3 have joined more of the games.

I never said you got anything out of this so why make so much work? I have told you that nothing went on and have given evidence to support it so why bother?

Since youve just degraded to personal attacks and lies here, and I have no evidence beyond the games and what Ive listed, Ill let this stand. If I feel Ive missed something, ill add it to the first page.

Sounds good. Btw check PM.

[lancehoch]

Gilly754 and LFAW have been Warned for their actions in the listed games.

[LFAW]

Understandable, thankyou for the leniant verdict I can understand how this could have been determined otherwise due to the statistics.

Regards,
LFAW

[AAFitz]

This was indeed the only possible action. The only goal was to keep it from happening any more, and the number of points here really wasnt that much. It was also clear that some of these games were supposed to be doubles games in the first place, so while you won, you may not have planned it.

I do suggest you avoid games with this guy in open games. Even if he is just really bad, and happens to suicide and you accidentally win, it does look bad from the other players point of view, and certainly many felt cheated. At the very least you are taking advantage of him. He either is throwing them, or is so bad that you are just stealing his points either way.

Im very glad you were able to accept some responsibility here, and apologize for the personal attacks. I realize it sucks being accused, but its tough seeing a well respected player, described as honorable, just start trashing other players, even if they did at one point accuse you.

In any case, the entire situation was unfortunate, and I got no pleasure from this. I for one am completely impressed and honored that you were able to apologize, and accept my apology for having to do this. I do see now why people posted that you were an honorable guy. I thought so too, and was just hoping to actually see that shine through at some point during this process. Im glad it finally did.

[Tammy DeLee]

This is totally ridiculous... not even worthy of a comment... chin up little one, people like this dont have a life and need SOMETHING to do, too bad their something is trying to make others as miserable as they must be themselves. Wake up and smell the coffee guy... its a game! just a stupid game! Games are supposed to be fun, not an instrument to pick on others with... what is wrong with you?

[AAFitz]

This is totally ridiculous... not even worthy of a comment... chin up little one, people like this dont have a life and need SOMETHING to do, too bad their something is trying to make others as miserable as they must be themselves. Wake up and smell the coffee guy... its a game! just a stupid game! Games are supposed to be fun, not an instrument to pick on others with... what is wrong with you?

So, are you making fun of me, while making fun of people who try to make others miserable. Thats pretty fun.

But, in this case, I was just trying to point out what looks like cheating in many games. In fact, it was LFAW who sent out the personal insults. In fact, the accusation really just points out the games and the chat in them.

I do agree, its just a stupid game though, which is why cheating is silly, and many work hard to prevent it for others. Though you may read through the chat of game after game where people are annoyed at their behavior and not care. Some do.

The coffee is down that hall. You should maybe grab yourself a cup.

[Tammy DeLee]

This is totally ridiculous... not even worthy of a comment... chin up little one, people like this dont have a life and need SOMETHING to do, too bad their something is trying to make others as miserable as they must be themselves. Wake up and smell the coffee guy... its a game! just a stupid game! Games are supposed to be fun, not an instrument to pick on others with... what is wrong with you?

So, are you making fun of me, while making fun of people who try to make others miserable. Thats pretty fun.

But, in this case, I was just trying to point out what looks like cheating in many games. In fact, it was LFAW who sent out the personal insults. In fact, the accusation really just points out the games and the chat in them.

I do agree, its just a stupid game though, which is why cheating is silly, and many work hard to prevent it for others. Though you may read through the chat of game after game where people are annoyed at their behavior and not care. Some do.

The coffee is down that hall. You should maybe grab yourself a cup.

I love it when people get annoyed at their behavior... that means they're not getting annoyed with mine!

and I was not making fun of you... but I've been on the receiving end a couple of times for stuff like this and it does truly irritate me because I like playing here... seriously though, I could take it or leave it. but I love the people here. the friends I've made here amazes me... who wouldve ever thought that I would find so many of such a high caliber on a game site? I know Luke very well... hes young, which explains alot of the "personal insults" you refer to, but he's also got the biggest heart I've seen in a long time. All I'm saying is that biting ones tongue and perhaps getting to know someone and until then, giving them the benefit of the doubt... is actually alot more rewarding and helpful to all concerned than something like this. Oh.. and thanks, but I dont drink coffee... makes me talk too much

[AAFitz]

Well, this isnt the place for this, but i like the sense of humor. You should know that ive played 6k games, and I have made very few cheating threads in that time. This was one of them. I agree that LFAW is a good guy. What you may see is me hoping he is guilty, when the whole time, I was hoping he was innocent. I know most of the people that vouched for him, so I did not continue this lightly.

However, I also know the game, and know a thing or two about how its played, and I definitely know when two people are favoring each other. In this case, it was gilly favoring LFAW. The stats showed it, the logs showed it, and the game chats showed it.

I would have loved nothing more than him to just accept this early on, and just say he wouldnt play like this in those games, but instead it dragged on. Still, I can not think of one honorable player I can think of that would ever join so many games with his doubles partner, when he lost every single one. Especially since he suicided in so many. And im not guessing about the suicide...gilly announces it half the time.

In any case, though this may look personal on my end, it never was. I truly wish I checked the games and found nothing.

I knew id take heat on this one, since these cases are impossible, but if it saves a few players from the experience I had, and obviously others had, so be it. I do appreciate the support for LFAW, because it did make me recheck everything to make sure I wasnt jumping to conclusions. I suspected it based on the numbers alone. It was actually after people said he was so good that i checked the logs to make sure it wasnt just a coincidence. Once I found game after game after game of complaints, and outright accusations...something that LFAW conveniently forgot about...I knew the situation was pretty much what I figured. Actually it was worse. I didnt even suspect it was that blatent. I wish it wasnt. In any case people with think what they will. I showed why I suspected foul play. Some will see it as that, and others will just see it as..well i dont know...two doubles partners playing together, and one innocently losing every game I guess. In any case, I doubt people have to worry about it again, which is the only goal of these threads.