[Abandoned] - Conquer National Bank

[ustus]

also there's a blank space, an alarm, and a money cart to the left of the upper entrance that don't appear to be connected to anything..... how do you get there?

[a.sub]

hmm... you could have a decided large mass of neutrals titled "safe door" representing the difficulty of this barrier... it just seems odd to me to get to the safe only from outside...

what if i made the vault lower down, and instead had the room to the bottom left an entrance? (and remove the money cart)

also there's a blank space, an alarm, and a money cart to the left of the upper entrance that don't appear to be connected to anything..... how do you get there?

right i didnt see that, shall be fixed asap

[a.sub]

With army numbers

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Without

Click image to enlarge.

[a.sub]

ok right now i want major game play discussions, a lot of the guns and alarms are poorly placed because of map changes, like how the alarms in the vault are completely avoidable, maybe make those guns and make the gun in the vault an alarm? etc.

[ustus]

nice solution on the vault this is the point that I can't help much anymore. Not the kind of map i'm used to playing. I don't see any obvious criticisms except dealing with the alarms / guns in the vault itself... which you already saw...

also, there is no reason I would ever take the alarm just south-east of the front door (i'm reffering to the top entryway as the front door, is that confusing??)

and you can get to the car without triggering an alarm, did you mean to do that? i do note that the path that way is longer, so it might be worth it to get the car...

are all the terits that are colored now going to be poss starting positions? cuz that one next to the car may give someone an unfair advantage. idk...

that's all i've got, if I'm wrong on anything someone point it out!

[a.sub]

nice solution on the vault this is the point that I can't help much anymore. Not the kind of map i'm used to playing. I don't see any obvious criticisms except dealing with the alarms / guns in the vault itself... which you already saw...
Thx and ill get to fixing that

also, there is no reason I would ever take the alarm just south-east of the front door (i'm reffering to the top entryway as the front door, is that confusing??)
i understood, and the alternate path should be a gun

and you can get to the car without triggering an alarm, did you mean to do that? i do note that the path that way is longer, so it might be worth it to get the car...
well the length and that the guns have more neutral on them a the start of the game

are all the terits that are colored now going to be poss starting positions? cuz that one next to the car may give someone an unfair advantage. idk...
this is true, since the guns have a larger neutral count i should prolly just eliminate this
but on top of that the car and the vault wall are going to have fairly large neutral caounts

that's all i've got, if I'm wrong on anything someone point it out!

[rishaed]

I like the idea of another entrance outside of the vault because it makes it be more than one choke point... or you could have the CEO or director...maybe lack if he'll agree..refering back to suggestion 4 players names... being able to bombard the money carts?

[ustus]

I have to admit, i lose interest in a map as soon as i see the word "bombard". But that's just me....

I think the concept of a bank lends itself to the idea of a chokepoint. So it makes sense that the bank would be a chokepoint

and having a single terit that would be able to attack all of the money carts would eliminate the whole idea of the alarms, so that wouldn't work as an idea to relplace bombardment. it's up to a.sub tho, we'll see what he thinks...

[a.sub]

I like the idea of another entrance outside of the vault because it makes it be more than one choke point... or you could have the CEO or director...maybe lack if he'll agree..refering back to suggestion 4 players names... being able to bombard the money carts?

I have to admit, i lose interest in a map as soon as i see the word "bombard". But that's just me....

I think the concept of a bank lends itself to the idea of a chokepoint. So it makes sense that the bank would be a chokepoint

and having a single terit that would be able to attack all of the money carts would eliminate the whole idea of the alarms, so that wouldn't work as an idea to relplace bombardment. it's up to a.sub tho, we'll see what he thinks...

im with ustus 100% on this, i think i speak for everyone when i say this map should be relatively simple. But im not the final judge this is a joint effort so lets also see what lzrman says.

[lzrman]

My thoughts:

I would not approve the use of bombardments, these are a waist possible men, and when you are in a bank setting you wanna build it "Fort Nox" style.

I still think we outta make the map look like a real bank, still looking more like a house.

Other then that I like the money cart objective.
I think we should have a secondary objective that shares part of the first objective.

[ustus]

hey, i found two more alarms i'd never take in a game, as well as a cart with no alarm

idk if you wanted ALL the carts on alarms, but the cart all the way to the right in the room above the room in the bottom right corner with a gun doesn't have one. BTW i think you really need some kind of more specific name, at least test1 test2 etc and cart1 cart2 neway, you get the idea... I feel very confusing trying to tell you what cart or alarm i'm talking about....

First alarm is in the room with a divider down the middle, though this one is, again, a shorter route and if the neutrals on the gun are enough higher than the neutrals on the alarm, still might take it, but unlikely.

Second alarm is the next space you come to if you travel due east of the first alarm. No reason i'd ever take that alarm, so it's kind of a wasted space.

Btw, thanks a bunch for supporting no bombardments, i feel like every draft i've visited recently has somebody saying "what? classic gameplay? add bombardment!" and, though i realize you're making a scenario map, it's good to see that someone else finds bombardment annoying...

[a.sub]

hey, i found two more alarms i'd never take in a game, as well as a cart with no alarm

idk if you wanted ALL the carts on alarms, but the cart all the way to the right in the room above the room in the bottom right corner with a gun doesn't have one. BTW i think you really need some kind of more specific name, at least test1 test2 etc and cart1 cart2 neway, you get the idea... I feel very confusing trying to tell you what cart or alarm i'm talking about....
haha yeah in the next major update ill use legit names or something, put out a thread. and yeah ill number the carts lol

First alarm is in the room with a divider down the middle, though this one is, again, a shorter route and if the neutrals on the gun are enough higher than the neutrals on the alarm, still might take it, but unlikely.
i think ill leave this one so people have to chose between a short term loss or a long term one

Second alarm is the next space you come to if you travel due east of the first alarm. No reason i'd ever take that alarm, so it's kind of a wasted space.
i agree with this one, ill remove one of the guns from that room and put it where this alarm is

Btw, thanks a bunch for supporting no bombardments, i feel like every draft i've visited recently has somebody saying "what? classic gameplay? add bombardment!" and, though i realize you're making a scenario map, it's good to see that someone else finds bombardment annoying...
QFT sooooo many people think adding bombardments makes their map have unique game play there are only a few maps that have done them well my favorite is D-Day:Omaha Beach.

[rishaed]

I only suggested bombardments to add more difficulty to the map... I usually don't because I see no use for them but can I get a reply on the second route the vault or the C4 entrance so that whoever controls the vault in the beginning doesn't always win..would make the map very boring!!!

[ustus]

there appear to be all neutrals in the vault, which means no one starts with it - at least that's how i'd do it. Putting only one route in, and a lot of neutrals on the entrance makes it difficult to get in at all, plus one or two alarms in the vault causes the vault to actually result in NEGATIVE reinforcements, so... it's not gonna make anyone win. besides, a vault ( think i said bank earlier by accident, i meant vault) is designed to have only one access.... C4 would make it easier to get into the vault, which is kind of against the idea of a vault. That's my response. Again, it's A.sub's map, so i don't choose, this is just my opinion.

[lzrman]

If there is only one path, that would make it extremely difficult to get at all, perhaps we need to re think our approch to enter the vault.

[a.sub]

well maybe we could add c4 entrance on the side, but you have to get past 2 gunmen?
that way its a large amount of neutrals to bypass

it's A.sub's map

1) its a shared effort, not my map, or even my idea
2) but even then the map should reflect what the players want
3) thank you for ur humble-ness (that a word?)

[ustus]

it's A.sub's map

1) its a shared effort, not my map, or even my idea
2) but even then the map should reflect what the players want
3) thank you for ur humble-ness (that a word?)

1)oops!!! i'm sorry lzrman! my mistake i keep seeing a.sub on the map update post and forgetting you're working on this too. will try to remember that in the future...
2)good point. I'm only offering my own opinion, this is one of the reasons i'm saying i don't make the decisions... i don't.... and if a lot of ppl think it's a good idea, in this realm, it probably is.
3)the word is humility, and i'm only really achieving it cuz i know that i don't know everything (or, practiacally, anything) about map making. I'm really following this map closely because a) it's a really cool idea, and b) i want to learn something about the process, what's good, what's bad, what works, what doesn't, etc... and i hope i never get to be one of the proud people on the forum. I'd hate to be obnoxious... Thanks for the complement.

[a.sub]

well either way thx for your critique so far, its has been greatly helpful to the map

[rishaed]

well either way thx for your critique so far, its has been greatly helpful to the map

I agree even though you have shot down a couple of my ideas.. and with the C4 route maybe gunmen on the outside and alarms on the inside with a guard/space in the middle?

[a.sub]

thats an interesting thought risa
wht if in order to enter from the bombed out place, u have to go through the terr with the c4 (so there is only one enterance) and it has a large neutral count like the vault door?

[rishaed]

sounds good, see what irzman says.

[ustus]

I can definitely see the idea working, maybe graphically try to either create the impression of a completely destroyed section, or draw a circle with the caption "place C4 here" as though this blueprint was the plan for the robery and that's where the explosives should go to ideally destroy the wall.

and I'm glad i've been helpful!

[a.sub]

UPDATE

Click image to enlarge.

[rishaed]

there should be an alarm next to the C4 entrance b/c it'd be pretty obvious that part of the building just got nailed with an explosive

[a.sub]

there should be an alarm next to the C4 entrance b/c it'd be pretty obvious that part of the building just got nailed with an explosive

theyd be dead lol
instead we could make teh neutral count on it larger than the safe's