Re: WWI: Gallipoli [9.9.15] V39 (p22) [Quenched]

[cairnswk]

WWI - Gallipoli



Draft Stamped 31.7.2009
Gameplay Stamped 13.7.2013 (4yrs - phew!)
Graphics Stamped 7.9.2013
XML STamped 21.9.2013
Beta Stamped 23.11.13


Map Name: WW1 - Gallipoli
Mapmaker: cairnswk
Number of Territories: 100
Special Features:Starting Neutrals, ranged attacks, losing condition, autodeploy, one-way borders, impassables
Fonts: Vagabond, Bookman Oldstyle
Software:Fireworks CS3 (image), Coreldraw X4 (text and legend)
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:
1. It is a classic battle that deserves a place on this site
2. The 100th anniversary of Gallipoli will occur in 2015.
3. Descriptions of any unique features or areas.
Battleships, Forts, Sea Mines, Landing Craft, Land Batteries...
Gallipoli was a big milestone in the Australian and New Zealand psyche for standing alongside each other in mateship and battle. It was also a huge disaster, but that didn't reduce the pride of Nationhoods.
The design features the outline of the War Memorial in Canberra atop the legend piece. Much of the Gallipoli collection is held in the Canberra War Memorial and I have viewed this fantastic collection of pieces. Suitable geographic and ship artwork will feature where necessary.

Map size:
Small - 650W x 600H
Large - 780W x 719H (1.2% larger)

Version 39
Small


Large

Click image to enlarge.

show: Starting positions - Version 38

show: V38 with 88s

show: CB version 37

show: Original Images

XML update 8 Aug 2015
download/file.php?mode=view&id=1961

...
i especially recommend that we reduce the first-turn advantage by increasing the neutrals on 12 of the landing beaches from n3 to n4 and on l06 from n6 to n7, which stops so many of the beaches from being overrun before player two has even had a turn.
ian.

Gameplay
Something for everyone in this one!
See special features above.

1. Total Territories
100 - 40 starts and 60 neutrals

2. The number of continents.
There are no actual continents for this map. Land positions and landing ships (not battleships) autodeploy to simulate the invasion fleet.

Losing Condition: Players failing to hold any land position will be eliminated

3. Starting Territories (40)


8 Battleships - start with 18 (no autodeplay) and can bombard any marked target as per the legend. They cannot be bombared from shore. They can be added to at the beginning of your turn. Use them wisely!
13 Invasion Craft - start with 6
3 Minesweepers - start with 6
8 Turkish terrs (start 6) on the east side of the Dardanelles (includes 1 land battery - represents the force that had to come from the Capital Constantinople after the invasion started).
8 Turkish terrs (start 6) on the western peninsula (includes 1 forts and 2 land batteries)

Each player starts with at least 1 battleship (BS).
That leaves 32 starting positions (SP) to be distributed by the luck of the drop on starting positions (as marked), and 32 is a golden number.

2P = 3BS + 10SP + 64N
3P = 3BS + 10SP + 64N
4P = 2BS + 8SP + 60N
5P = 1BS + 6SP + 65N
6P = 1BS + 5SP + 64N
7P = 1BS + 4SP + 65N
8P = 1BS + 4SP + 60N

[Incandenza]

Holy crap, a late xmas present!

[samuelc812]

Great Map
Ok i have a few Suggestions, about Graphics, not much on Gameplay yet but will come back later on

1. The Army Circles that indicate the forting: of land attack and sea bombard are a little hard to see the symbol attached, i spent a few minutes trying to find just that, maybe making them darker will make it better...
2. I am wondering whether it would be better to make the territory titles bold so they are clearer to read...
3. I think maytbe the Purple behind the title may grow on me but at the moment it isn't that appealing...
4. Love the Poppies what a great touch
5. How many Starting Territories does each player get at the start of a game?
6. How do players get to the Battleships in the game, they seem isolated, i am probably missing something

Lest We Forget...
Great Work So Far

[cairnswk]

Holy crap, a late xmas present!

Feast has arrived

Great Map
Ok i have a few Suggestions, about Graphics, not much on Gameplay yet but will come back later on

1. The Army Circles that indicate the forting: of land attack and sea bombard are a little hard to see the symbol attached, i spent a few minutes trying to find just that, maybe making them darker will make it better...
2. I am wondering whether it would be better to make the territory titles bold so they are clearer to read...
3. I think maytbe the Purple behind the title may grow on me but at the moment it isn't that appealing...
4. Love the Poppies what a great touch
5. How many Starting Territories does each player get at the start of a game?
6. How do players get to the Battleships in the game, they seem isolated, i am probably missing something

Lest We Forget...
Great Work So Far

1. Forts.... i will brick them up properly so that they stand out like real forts.
2. i will see about bolding later the tert names
3. i luv the purple
4. Gotta have the poppies
5. the game will be setup with 16 start terts on each side...so that an 8 player game gets 4 terts each. This game would be best for doubles etc. but the xml doesn't allow that to be coded (yet)
6. Yeh, gotta work on the battleships...they start with a high number so that they can bombard if necessary...and will auto reduce eventually...this is in line with how the battleships were in the real battle....they were withdrawn eventually because there was too much damage being done from u-boats. They will cease to be effective after X rounds.
But i am also considering linking them to shore landing positions so that that player may get some troops ashore...yes i'll do that.

[Qwert]

Ok,now i hope that you have same standards,not double standards,
When i say that in WWI Ottoman Empire you make big mistake with name Gelibolu, and that you need to change to proper english translation,you refuse and tell me that these is proper name for GAllipoli?!
Gallipoli need to be same names in bouth maps.
Now here i see something what im tell you that is correct name.
Little explanation will be good for me,because im a little confused.

[cairnswk]

Ok,now i hope that you have same standards,not double standards,
When i say that in WWI Ottoman Empire you make big mistake with name Gelibolu, and that you need to change to proper english translation,you refuse and tell me that these is proper name for GAllipoli?!
Gallipoli need to be same names in bouth maps.
Now here i see something what im tell you that is correct name.
Little explanation will be good for me,because im a little confused.

Qwert, thanks for your comments.
this is the english version of this campaign. Gallipoli is a town that is not even on this map but given a name sake for the territory.
I know it is Gelibolu on the Ottoman map, and that was done to appease the turkish player who had the decency to comment and request on that map.
I want this map to be in all english.
this is not double standards, but simply an alternative way of naming.
So don't be confused...it is good.

[Qwert]

Qwert, thanks for your comments.
this is the english version of this campaign. Gallipoli is a town that is not even on this map but given a name sake for the territory.
I know it is Gelibolu on the Ottoman map, and that was done to appease the turkish player who had the decency to comment and request on that map.
I want this map to be in all english.
this is not double standards, but simply an alternative way of naming.
So don't be confused...it is good.

No its not good,how many time these so call "turkish player"post in these topic?
Everybody know for famous Gallipoli battle,even i know for that, if someon tell me"do you heard for famous Gelibolu Battle?" i will definitly say that im not heard for such battle(and english is not mine language). I know that these turkish player wants to all names in WWI Ottoman map be turkish not english,well he even want to Constantinople be change with Istanbul. He have decency to comment and request to you change Gallipolli ,to be Gelibolu.
You want to be pleased to one person who posted 2-3 times in map foundry,and only because hes wishes is that these name must be in turkis,and all other names is in english translation.
Ofcourse mine oppinion,many time is ignored,and sometime is apply,only after long discusions. I will newer understand these, but these is yours map,and you can do what you want,i can not force you to do right thing,these is only small opservation, who sometime can be helpful,and some time can be ignored(well many time).
Good luck with these map, the start is good with More appropriate Famous name. I just hope that some other turkish player will not request that you change these name to Gelibolu,because after all these whas hes victory.

[cairnswk]

...
No its not good,how many time these so call "turkish player"post in these topic?
Everybody know for famous Gallipoli battle,even i know for that, if someon tell me"do you heard for famous Gelibolu Battle?" i will definitly say that im not heard for such battle(and english is not mine language). I know that these turkish player wants to all names in WWI Ottoman map be turkish not english,well he even want to Constantinople be change with Istanbul. He have decency to comment and request to you change Gallipolli ,to be Gelibolu.
You want to be pleased to one person who posted 2-3 times in map foundry,and only because hes wishes is that these name must be in turkis,and all other names is in english translation.
Ofcourse mine oppinion,many time is ignored,and sometime is apply,only after long discusions. I will newer understand these, but these is yours map,and you can do what you want,i can not force you to do right thing,these is only small opservation, who sometime can be helpful,and some time can be ignored(well many time).
Good luck with these map, the start is good with More appropriate Famous name. I just hope that some other turkish player will not request that you change these name to Gelibolu,because after all these whas hes victory.

I would hope that since we're an international community it would be acceptable to cater for someone who only posts two or three times on a map and makes such a request. I don't have any issue with it. At least i can say that i listen and give4 the foundry 98% of what is asked. You appear to be the one who has an issue with this unfortunately. You have made your point and since it is only early days for this map, why don't you wait and see what happens. I might yet change everything to Yiddish, then we'd all be up the creek

[samuelc812]

Are there going to be set bonuses for different regions like any other map, or is this going to be just auto-deploys etc. ?

[cairnswk]

Are there going to be set bonuses for different regions like any other map, or is this going to be just auto-deploys etc. ?

Samual...please give me the pleasure of reading the posting topic at the head of this thread.

[samuelc812]

Sorry Cairns

[cairnswk]

Version 2.

1. Road along the Peninsula in place - this will possibly allow quick movement between villages
2. All terts except one have names
3. re-designed the right legend to allow fitting in of Chanak Kale - this is afterall known in Turkey as the Battle of Chanak Kale not Gallipoli.

[cairnswk]

Regarding the Battleships. I'm not sure how these can be changed. From my research, it appears they were used for bombarding the beaches and villages that held troops, and weren't used for landing troops as part of the invasion.
I will continue to look and research this fact however.

[MrBenn]

There's no mistaking this as anything other than a Cairns map

I'm afraid that the following is more a collection of random thoughts than coherent feedback, but here we go:

1. The attack lines from the boats gives the illusion of 1-way arrows, although I am assuming that they are 2-way attacks...

2. There is nothing on the legend to indicate how the battleships can be conquered/bombarded - and they are the only starting positions that can directly inflict damage on an opponent... wait, I've just seen the 3 orange 9s on land, and the red 3 bordering the green 9... Are these coloured to be starting positions? I'm assuming the grey 3s are all neutrals? It seems to me that if you get a battleship from the drop, you may as well spend all your armies bombarding wherever you can to avoid losing them unnecessarily through decay - this is what sometimes happens on dustbowl... In fact, the most sensible starting move is to attack and advance from all of your ships. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I'm not sure...

3. Is there any special significance (gameplay-wise) of the Turisk Hexagons?

4. With autodeploy on all the land territories, the 9s will become 10s, whereas the boats will change from 9s to 7s.... Are you planning on keeping a regular territory bonus (as +1 for every 3 terrs over 12), or abolishing it? I've sometimes thought about some kind of autodeploy-only map...

That's it for now

[cairnswk]

There's no mistaking this as anything other than a Cairns map

I'm afraid that the following is more a collection of random thoughts than coherent feedback, but here we go:

1. The attack lines from the boats gives the illusion of 1-way arrows, although I am assuming that they are 2-way attacks...

2. There is nothing on the legend to indicate how the battleships can be conquered/bombarded - and they are the only starting positions that can directly inflict damage on an opponent... wait, I've just seen the 3 orange 9s on land, and the red 3 bordering the green 9... Are these coloured to be starting positions? I'm assuming the grey 3s are all neutrals? It seems to me that if you get a battleship from the drop, you may as well spend all your armies bombarding wherever you can to avoid losing them unnecessarily through decay - this is what sometimes happens on dustbowl... In fact, the most sensible starting move is to attack and advance from all of your ships. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I'm not sure...

3. Is there any special significance (gameplay-wise) of the Turisk Hexagons?

4. With autodeploy on all the land territories, the 9s will become 10s, whereas the boats will change from 9s to 7s.... Are you planning on keeping a regular territory bonus (as +1 for every 3 terrs over 12), or abolishing it? I've sometimes thought about some kind of autodeploy-only map...

That's it for now

Thanks for the comments Mr Benn.
You've jumped in as I'm in the process of still designing.
1. there will be 8 battleships (one for each player) that will be able to bombard turkish postiions marked with the red target marker. The battleship will start off with high numbers (still to be determined) and will be an auto-reducing by -2 each round so that if a player doesn't use all the shells to bombard, then their bad luck. Eventually these will fizzle out and become redundant in the game, just like the battelships were withdrawn from the real battle.
2. there will be 4 craft that can attack the mine fields in the Dardenalles and 12 other landing craft so that some players will get two landing craft and others get one of each. The landing craft will be able to be bombarded from the beach but not attacked. The Minesweepers will be able to be bombarded from the turkish fortresses along the Dardenelles.
3. no particular relevance to the turkish hexagons and may yet change to normal circles - for now they exist for differentiation.
4. Not yet thought about regular territory bonus apart from the fact that every land tert conquered has a +1 bonus...that too can change depending on the feedback for gameplay.

But for now i am working on the Queen Elizabeth class battleship to put into effect...so watch this space...version 3 will reveal more.

Scale model used - time to draw - 1/2 hour

[cairnswk]

Version 3.

1. Battleships added - suggested gameplay prompt
2. 16 starting terts sorted on Allies side - Turksih side still to do.
3. changed the landing routes and will probably need to change them again.
4. as map grows and changes, so does the legend.

[The Neon Peon]

How did I miss this map? It is amazing. Trying to figure out most of it. But
1. Huge number of territories,
2. Complex Gameplay
That is all you need. This map is done, right there.

Beautiful graphics. Nice new style.

Forts are kind of hard to see.
The Turkish Crossing points could use some work
What is the line down the center of the map?

I like that you have made the starting points uneven. Makes a whole new strategy depending on the drop, and not a bad thing. Good to add even more factors to how you play.

You are way too good at this stuff. Your versions 3 (for the latest few maps) are good enough to be sent to the main foundry, in my opinion. Keep up the good work.

[cairnswk]

How did I miss this map? It is amazing. Trying to figure out most of it. But
1. Huge number of territories,
2. Complex Gameplay
That is all you need. This map is done, right there.

Beautiful graphics. Nice new style.

Forts are kind of hard to see.
The Turkish Crossing points could use some work
What is the line down the center of the map?

I like that you have made the starting points uneven. Makes a whole new strategy depending on the drop, and not a bad thing. Good to add even more factors to how you play.

You are way too good at this stuff. Your versions 3 (for the latest few maps) are good enough to be sent to the main foundry, in my opinion. Keep up the good work.

Everything noted Neon....

Below is Version 4.
1. Villages added to roads with gameplay instruction
2. Forts enhanced
3. Tekke Burnu area sorted


To do:
1. Sort turkish start points
2. attack lines for minesweepers.
3. the contour lines, borders, and the painted land.
4. Turkish crossing points.

[cairnswk]

Comments anyone?

[samuelc812]

Are the purple glows around Achi Baba and Chunuk Bair, going to have black strokes like the rest of them? or are they something different?

The "Forts: Land Attack or sea bombard" are a lot better

[cairnswk]

Are the purple glows around Achi Baba and Chunuk Bair, going to have black strokes like the rest of them? or are they something different?

The "Forts: Land Attack or sea bombard" are a lot better

Samuel
1. Yes, they will be inproved those ridge indicators are simply there for the moment because they are easy to grab in a separate layer from the map and don't interfere with the black lines.
2. yes, i quite like the forts also

I'll be putting up another version later today.

[cairnswk]

Version 5.

1. Beaches added - other terrain to be additioned later.
2. Landing craft changed
3. left legend changed slightly
4. turkish positions fixed (subject to gameplay change)
5. impassable lines fixed

[the.killing.44]

If you're really gonna make the beaches mean something, they seem very overshadowed by some of the army shadows. Of course, you have the lines so no biggie, unless you have some thing in mind

[The Neon Peon]

I disagree with the suggested gameplay. I would think it is break out, kill the people next to you, then bombard. If you break out and start off going to land, I don't think you are going to be that successful when others come at you from behind.

[cairnswk]

If you're really gonna make the beaches mean something, they seem very overshadowed by some of the army shadows. Of course, you have the lines so no biggie, unless you have some thing in mind

Sorry .44, i don't understand what you're on about here.