[Abandoned] - Medieval Denmark

[Balsiefen]

Thanks MrBenn! I just spent 5 minutes in a panic searching drafts and abandoned looking for this, for some reason didnt think of checking the main foundry for ages

[Mr. Squirrel]

Assuming that this is the version you wanted to get opinions on, then I'd plump for the font on the green region.

Oh, and Happy Christmas:

I agree with Benn here. Light green looks fine and it is quite readable too. Also, congrats on the stamp.

[Balsiefen]

Green it is then

Right, I'll start getting the new map up, forgive me if it takes a while-lot of boarder changes to do.

Edit 21/12/08: Fraid I've been running into unexpected problems left and right, cant seem to redo the cont colours without pixelating things (dunno why yet), just posting to show I havnt given up yet as it may seem

[Balsiefen]

Medieval Denmark V2.1

Click image to enlarge.

Current map comments
Right, this should be all of the changes unless i've forgotten any. I've enlarged Laeso, Samso, Imbrae and Moon to fit in the army no's and Anund enough to see the colour. Also rejigged the boarders of Ostaerst, Almundae and Saling a little to make the text fit better. Switched the island touching Saling to the blue cont to clear up confusion

Feedback?

[captainwalrus]

I like this a lot. One issue I have is that i think the sea green bous region should be worth 4 or there should be a connection between langeland and eileam. This would make it more worth the 5. As a rule I generaly just make bonuses the amount of borders and then +1 for every 6 territories that can attack it and +1 if it has more than 6 territories. (the more than six is because at 6 you get an extra +1 for numbers to territs held most of the time) THis would make the sea greens a bonus of 4 as it stands now.

[Balsiefen]

I like this a lot. One issue I have is that i think the sea green bous region should be worth 4 or there should be a connection between langeland and eileam. This would make it more worth the 5. As a rule I generaly just make bonuses the amount of borders and then +1 for every 6 territories that can attack it and +1 if it has more than 6 territories. (the more than six is because at 6 you get an extra +1 for numbers to territs held most of the time) THis would make the sea greens a bonus of 4 as it stands now.

Yup, think your right there, I'll change it to a 4.

[TaCktiX]

- Your small continent bonuses I think are a little off. Blekyng & Burgendaland is 3 territs, defend 2 against 2. In most other maps, that's a 1.5, so the 1 is okay. Considering that to expand from B&B is to two different +4 continents, anyone dropping there is more or less screwed compared to someone who dropped North (fairly easy +3) or South Jutland (a +4). Look into making it a +2 and adding another connection to Albo (that'd solidify Skane as a +4 in my mind).
- North Jutland is 5 defend 2 against 4, whilst South Jutland is 4 defend 2 against 3. That's a tough situation where you could argue North Jutland goes to 3, but I leave that to you.
- Is Reign actually spelled Regn in Dutch, or is that a typo (the legend)?
- While the bolder colors are easy to see on the legend, some of the lighter tones (like B&B) are hard to read. Perhaps a subtle outer glow on all of them that's tan in tint.
- Sweden is really dang small, making the fact that there's another country up there not as obvious. A little larger font size should help. You can create the same effect for the HRE by broadening its length while not changing its height.
- Is there a significance to the bird in the top left that I missed?
- The island off Lyuthgud is too small to create a color, and thus looks like a screw-up instead of a right and nice island. Perhaps making it a smidge larger for the sake of consistency should do the trick (no other island is pure black).

Vlademar had better defend his territory well, for this map got

[Balsiefen]

Thanks for posting-was beggining to think people'd just let this drop

- Your small continent bonuses I think are a little off. Blekyng & Burgendaland is 3 territs, defend 2 against 2. In most other maps, that's a 1.5, so the 1 is okay. Considering that to expand from B&B is to two different +4 continents, anyone dropping there is more or less screwed compared to someone who dropped North (fairly easy +3) or South Jutland (a +4). Look into making it a +2 and adding another connection to Albo (that'd solidify Skane as a +4 in my mind).

I think your right about making B&B a 2, but I dont really want to make skane much harder to hold-Its a rather central crossroads as it is so I think it is more or less solid in it's bonus. Perhaps a connection from burgandeland to vaetland or barae would be better as they are already boarders

Actually, looking at it, I think Fyun and isles is only worth a 4 as well (7 territs defend 3 against 3)

- North Jutland is 5 defend 2 against 4, whilst South Jutland is 4 defend 2 against 3. That's a tough situation where you could argue North Jutland goes to 3, but I leave that to you.

I'd keep it where it is as north offers expantion into Halland while south is a dead end.

- Is Reign actually spelled Regn in Dutch, or is that a typo (the legend)?

Typo.

- While the bolder colors are easy to see on the legend, some of the lighter tones (like B&B) are hard to read. Perhaps a subtle outer glow on all of them that's tan in tint.

I'll work on that- not something I know how to do atm but I'm always looking to new skills.

- Sweden is really dang small, making the fact that there's another country up there not as obvious. A little larger font size should help. You can create the same effect for the HRE by broadening its length while not changing its height.

I'll have a fiddle

- Is there a significance to the bird in the top left that I missed?

Was the danish flag and symbol of the early kingdom

- The island off Lyuthgud is too small to create a color, and thus looks like a screw-up instead of a right and nice island. Perhaps making it a smidge larger for the sake of consistency should do the trick (no other island is pure black).

I'll look into that, (though I might just get rid of it entirely)

Vlademar had better defend his territory well, for this map got

[Balsiefen]

Medieval Denmark V2.2

Click image to enlarge.

Current map comments
I've tried to make all the changes Tack suggested:
-Blekyng & burg continent now worth 2
-Added a sea route from burgendaland to Barae
-Fyun and isles down to 4 bonus
-typo fixed
-Sweden and HRE names fiddled with (I think sweden looks better, not sure about HRE)
-Got rid of the island off lyuthgud
-Added a bit of highlight onto the legend, Is this working well do people think?

[Balsiefen]

Comments anyone?

[edbeard]

You've got three continents of varying sizes worth +2. Anyone else find this troubling? Three territories with two borders is worth the same as four and five territories with two borders. I don't know that you can do anything about it though.

The fyun and islands is four terr with three borders. sounds like +3 to me.

Your water connections are going to be missed in several areas. People are going to be caught off guard. Try out some other styles for them.


This map is in dire need of a mini map. The legend is almost impossible to read. Making it readable doesn't necessarily fix your need of a mini-map.

[Balsiefen]

You've got three continents of varying sizes worth +2. Anyone else find this troubling? Three territories with two borders is worth the same as four and five territories with two borders. I don't know that you can do anything about it though.

hmm, that is rather a problem. North and south Jutland I think are worth the same: North has one more territory but it is also a favourable position to expand into Halland wheras South is on its own rather.

Possibly it would be most sensible to remove the barae-burg-land sea route and knock it back down to a 1.

The fyun and islands is four terr with three borders. sounds like +3 to me.

I make it 7 terr

Your water connections are going to be missed in several areas. People are going to be caught off guard. Try out some other styles for them.

Yea, I agree with you there.

This map is in dire need of a mini map. The legend is almost impossible to read. Making it readable doesn't necessarily fix your need of a mini-map.

not entirely sure where i could cram it, it's a rather busy map, perhaps directly below Barae at the bottom? Looking at making the legend better is still something I want to do if anyone has any more suggestions for that.

[madsanders]

Hi, great map.
I am Danish and I must say that most of your names doesn't really ring a bell with me. I've taken a look at the map you've used and tried to come up with more fitting names for the provinces. However for many of them I've chosen city names rathre than the names of provinces simply because they are still in use tday, adn also because many of the names you've chosen seems like rather administrative names that I cannot recoqnize from any historical descriptions either. I've tried to keep to the places that have been most important historically. Here we go:

Omungaer - Vibiaergh
Lofraeth - Horsnaes
Abo - Arus
Almundae - Kaldyng
Barvith - Hathaerslef
Eilaem - Ripae
Istathe - Hetheby
Flacke - Slaulosae
Tuzae - Kalundaeburgh (Perhaps Odz, if it's too long)
Tunae - Roskeldae
Stro - Haelsingoer (not on your map, but this is after all where Hamlet takes place and one of the most important sites of the time, so it should definitely be on your map)
Barae - Lund

I'm not so familiar with the Swedish part of the map, so I've only made one suggestion there.
Hope you can use it.
Mads

EDIT: A little research tells me that Haelsingoer was indeed not of great importance at this time in history, it gained importance later on. It is, though, mentioned by Valdemar in 1231, so it did exist, but as a simple fishing town. I'll leave that decision up to you.

And another thing: the straight between Thytae and Harthe was in fact not a straight but sanded shut (don't know how to say that in English) from 1100 to 1825 allowing passage from one region to the other. That is perhaps a detail.

And, with a very few exeptions, he's spelled Valdemar Sejr (not Vlademar, althgough it's a Danish version of Vladimir).
Mads

[sailorseal]

Very beautiful map. Some areas get a little cramped though and might become confusing. Just the names all seem to be on top of each other. The legend is difficult to read.

[MrBenn]

It's been just over a month since an update... please don't let this project fizzle out....

[Balsiefen]

sorry, thanks for comments and support (nice to have someone actually Danish to keep me in check).

Life for the past month has been deadly for me: I finally got a holiday but then I was rushed up and down the country so mapmaking has fallen rather to the bottom of things to feel guilty about not doing.

However, I think I feel like having another spurt of updates, I'll start working on it immediately.

[Balsiefen]

Omungaer - Vibiaergh
Lofraeth - Horsnaes
Abo - Arus
Almundae - Kaldyng
Barvith - Hathaerslef
Eilaem - Ripae
Istathe - Hetheby
Flacke - Slaulosae
Tuzae - Kalundaeburgh (Perhaps Odz, if it's too long)
Tunae - Roskeldae
Stro - Haelsingoer (not on your map, but this is after all where Hamlet takes place and one of the most important sites of the time, so it should definitely be on your map)
Barae - Lund

I'm not so familiar with the Swedish part of the map, so I've only made one suggestion there.
Hope you can use it.
Mads

EDIT: A little research tells me that Haelsingoer was indeed not of great importance at this time in history, it gained importance later on. It is, though, mentioned by Valdemar in 1231, so it did exist, but as a simple fishing town. I'll leave that decision up to you.

Mostly implemented: Hathaerslef, Slaulosae and Haelsingoer are unfortunately too long to fit in their countries and Roskeldae is touch and go even when I shorten it to it's modern name Roskilde. Also I cannot find any other sources supporting names either way so I'm trusting anyone who can find improvements.

And another thing: the straight between Thytae and Harthe was in fact not a straight but sanded shut (don't know how to say that in English) from 1100 to 1825 allowing passage from one region to the other. That is perhaps a detail.

I think I'll keep it as it is for now for gameplay reasons more than anything else. (plus a border that narrow would confuse people)

And, with a very few exeptions, he's spelled Valdemar Sejr (not Vlademar, althgough it's a Danish version of Vladimir).
Mads

Changed.

To concerns about the legend and addition of a minimap, I am currently having a fiddle with redoing it. Got an idea of what it could be like but not sure if it'll work out.

[madsanders]

Mostly implemented: Hathaerslef, Slaulosae and Haelsingoer are unfortunately too long to fit in their countries and Roskeldae is touch and go even when I shorten it to it's modern name Roskilde. Also I cannot find any other sources supporting names either way so I'm trusting anyone who can find improvements.

You could call the old Almundae Vaethlae and then use Kaldyng for Barvith (it's right on the border). Perhaps Soroe instead of Slaulosae, Ledra instead of Roskeldae and Esrum for Haelsingoer

Mads

[iancanton]

a map of schleswig gives the name of the bottom island as fehmarn, not imbrae.

http://www.tiscover.de/de/guide/5de,en, ... /home.html

this is a german name, the modern danish name being femern.

http://www.meeresblick.de/ostsee/stadt/ ... hland.html

Fehmarn (dänisch Femern) ist die drittgrößte der deutschen Ostseeinseln und Teil von Schleswig-Holstein.

there is some evidence that the name in the time of king knud the great (1022) was fembre.

http://www.fehmarn.de/service/kultur/kurzchronik.html

Dänenkönig Knud der Große unterstellt im Jahre 1022 die Insel Fehmarn...
Im Jahre 1076 erwähnt der Kirchenhistoriker Adam von Bremen die Insel „Fembre" als ein reiches Bauernland und voll von Seeräubern...

anund appears to be called anholt now, though i don't know the medieval name. it appears to have belonged to halland, not mid jutland, but was of minor importance and, when the rest of halland was ceded to sweden, the island was missed by the swedes and therefore remained in danish hands.

http://www.anholt.dk/turistinformation1.htm

Ved freden i Roskilde i 1658 måtte Danmark afstå Skåne, Halland, Blekinge og Bornholm til Sverige. Det siges at Anholt da ved et tilfælde forblev dansk, idet en af de danske forhandlere holdt sin hånd på landkortet så den dækkede Anholt.

anund (or anholt) needs to be on the map for neither historical nor gameplay reasons - i dislike the fact that there's no real gap between the jutland and halland/skane sides of the map, since the sea isn't proving to be much of a barrier - so i'd like u to consider replacing this territory with roskilde.

will u have room for roskilde as the capital city of denmark and "the biggest town in medieval northern europe", perhaps given a similar treatment as moscow in pepperonibread's soviet union? if u're pushed for space, then maybe a crown-shaped army shadow on both map and legend will suffice.

http://www.roskilde.com/cmarter.asp?doc=2961&node=984
http://www.roskilde.com/cmarter.asp?doc=2963&node=977

This former medieval capital of Denmark at the end of Roskilde fjord is not far from busy Copenhagen.
Already in the 10th century Roskilde was a residence for kings and bishops, the first stone church, Saint Clemens´, was build in 1030.
It was considered to be the biggest town in medieval northern Europe with 5 to 10, 000 inhabitants.

moon is actually spelt møn or moen.

http://www.feriecenter-siden.dk/holiday ... ands/moen/
http://www.insula-moenia.dk/index.html

i also agree with madsanders that lund must be included instead of barae.

http://www.lund.se/templates/Page____21316.aspx

From the 13th century Lund was Denmark's most important city - a city from which the archbishops exercised ecclesiastical power over all of Scandinavia.

ian.

[Balsiefen]

Wow, thanks for that stuff.


However, I'm very sorry to say that exams are now making it impossible to keep up with this. Thanks for all the support and interest but I'm afraid I have 12 GCSE's to keep up with.

VACATION UNTIL 24 JUNE 2009(ish)

[Joodoo]

suggesstion:add Holy Roman Empire and Sweden as territories (but don't make them belong to any continent)

[MrBenn]

VACATION UNTIL 24 JUNE 2009(ish)

[Moved]

All the best with your exams

One of the CAs will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made.

[Balsiefen]

well exams are through, I'm off on a trip to Oxford for a couple of days but watch this space

[Hatchman]

Seeing this map for the first time and I have to say I love it!

[Balsiefen]

a map of schleswig gives the name of the bottom island as fehmarn, not imbrae.

http://www.tiscover.de/de/guide/5de,en, ... /home.html

this is a german name, the modern danish name being femern.

http://www.meeresblick.de/ostsee/stadt/ ... hland.html

Fehmarn (dänisch Femern) ist die drittgrößte der deutschen Ostseeinseln und Teil von Schleswig-Holstein.

there is some evidence that the name in the time of king knud the great (1022) was fembre.

http://www.fehmarn.de/service/kultur/kurzchronik.html

Dänenkönig Knud der Große unterstellt im Jahre 1022 die Insel Fehmarn...
Im Jahre 1076 erwähnt der Kirchenhistoriker Adam von Bremen die Insel „Fembre" als ein reiches Bauernland und voll von Seeräubern...

I've changed it to Fembre for now.

[/quote]anund appears to be called anholt now, though i don't know the medieval name. it appears to have belonged to halland, not mid jutland, but was of minor importance and, when the rest of halland was ceded to sweden, the island was missed by the swedes and therefore remained in danish hands.

http://www.anholt.dk/turistinformation1.htm

Ved freden i Roskilde i 1658 måtte Danmark afstå Skåne, Halland, Blekinge og Bornholm til Sverige. Det siges at Anholt da ved et tilfælde forblev dansk, idet en af de danske forhandlere holdt sin hånd på landkortet så den dækkede Anholt.

anund (or anholt) needs to be on the map for neither historical nor gameplay reasons - i dislike the fact that there's no real gap between the jutland and halland/skane sides of the map, since the sea isn't proving to be much of a barrier - so i'd like u to consider replacing this territory with roskilde. [/quote]
I agree that it has little reason to be there except as a filler (the 42 territs thing). The sea not being much of a barrier is somewhat deliberate as for the danes, travel over sea was probably often more convenient than land. Also I wanted Halland to be slightly harder to hold as four 2 size territs is a little much and it boarders N Jutland which is also an easy territ to take. If I remove it however I need to find somewhere to add a replacement and roskilde isn't really suitable (see next bit)

will u have room for roskilde as the capital city of denmark and "the biggest town in medieval northern europe", perhaps given a similar treatment as moscow in pepperonibread's soviet union? if u're pushed for space, then maybe a crown-shaped army shadow on both map and legend will suffice.

http://www.roskilde.com/cmarter.asp?doc=2961&node=984
http://www.roskilde.com/cmarter.asp?doc=2963&node=977

This former medieval capital of Denmark at the end of Roskilde fjord is not far from busy Copenhagen.
Already in the 10th century Roskilde was a residence for kings and bishops, the first stone church, Saint Clemens´, was build in 1030.
It was considered to be the biggest town in medieval northern Europe with 5 to 10, 000 inhabitants.

I have changed the name of the territory to roskilde but splitting it or adding it as a separate city is impossible due to size restrictions (the name overlaps the boarder as it is with no space to spare, though I'll probably jig the Odz border to fit it in.)

moon is actually spelt møn or moen.

http://www.feriecenter-siden.dk/holiday ... ands/moen/
http://www.insula-moenia.dk/index.html

i also agree with madsanders that lund must be included instead of barae.

http://www.lund.se/templates/Page____21316.aspx

From the 13th century Lund was Denmark's most important city - a city from which the archbishops exercised ecclesiastical power over all of Scandinavia.

ian.

Done and done, thanks for that

suggesstion:add Holy Roman Empire and Sweden as territories (but don't make them belong to any continent)

Sorry, but I cant see this as being anything but awkward for gameplay and graphics alike.

Seeing this map for the first time and I have to say I love it!

Thanks!