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When good mapmakers make bad maps.

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When good mapmakers make bad maps.

Postby oaktown on Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:08 pm

Yes, it happens. Sometimes a talented, experienced, Foundry-savvy mapmaker puts together a lousy map.

I consider myself to be among the more experienced Foundry goers, and I hope that I am at least somewhat talented, and yet I have come up with some real doosies. The Los Angeles map? A popular idea, but it looked like crap, wasn't going to play well, and each draft was worse than the previous one. Battleship? That idea smelled bad in under a week.

But now that I think I'm one of the site's "vetted" mapmakers, once I throw myself into a project it can be hard to let it go. For example, I made eight drafts of Los Angeles over two months, and there was a steady chorus of loyal supporters. I could have very easily marched that map right through the Foundry and gotten it stamped and Forged and Quenched... only then to realize I had put my name on a piece of shit.

Perhaps you're thinking, "Well, if the map was that bad it wouldn't have made it that far." But I say it would have. We have some pretty outspoken critics around here - and we need them - but they (we) tend to go after the newbs who make crappy maps before they go after the regulars who make crappy maps. Mibi, Widowmakers, yeti, cairns, gimil, edbeard, MrBenn, and all of the many other Foundry veterans whose opinions I highly value did not tell me to quit production on the LA map. But I don't fault them for this, because I would be loathe to tell them that they should quit a map. In large part this is because I know that the regulars have the skills and experience to work their shit out, while a newb mapmaker who is really up against a big wall may not, and needs to hear just how big that wall is.

But what happens when that veteran DOESN'T work their shit out? Do I hope that somebody else will say something first? Do I wait until the last minute to point out how bad a project is? Do I ignore the problem because I like so-and-so and I don't want to upset him?

I don't know that there's any single solution, or any change to the rules that we have to make. Maybe there is, and I'd be willing to hear it. But as I see it the Foundry is running at least as well now as it ever has.

Instead, I'd like to present the veteran foundry-goers (including myself) with a list of challenges:

    1. When you begin a new map, consider whether or not that map meets Rule #1: that it be "inherently unique either in gameplay, location, or theme." If it's not, or even if it's questionable, move on to a new project.

    2. When you start a new map, ask yourself "is it going to be better than my last map?" If the answer is "It's about the same," think about what would make it "better."

    3. When others criticize your map, presume that the critic does so with the best intentions; nobody is trying to trip you up, they are simply and honestly trying to help you make your map better. That doesn't mean you have to agree with every suggestion, but you should at least consider it and be able to give a reasoned response.

    4. Don't expect that your map should move faster than other maps. Some mapmakers (myself included) are getting their threads into the Forge with lower and lower page counts. This could mean that we have a winning formula, or it could mean that we aren't doing the work that would really make our maps better.

    5. For every post you receive in your map thread, leave FOUR posts in other map threads. If the veteran mapmakers were visiting each others' threads earlier and more often, we'd all be producing better maps.
Finally, before I hop on a plane and forget about CC entirely for two weeks, I'll leave you all with this... in my opinion, the three most visually interesting maps to hit the Forge in the past few weeks have been by new mapmakers. They entered the process with no preconceptions about how fast their map would be stamped/quenched, they received a ton of constructive criticism early on in the process, they made some mistakes and had those mistakes pointed out, and they produced impressive and original maps. These may not be the best maps ever to hit CC, but they are fresh and unique.
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Re: When good mapmakers make bad maps.

Postby whitestazn88 on Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:34 am

preach brotha!

ps. chinese checkers should have never made it out of the foundry alive.... sorry buddy. have a good 2 weeks
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Re: When good mapmakers make bad maps.

Postby lgoasklucyl on Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:25 am

I'm bored to death at work and happened to come across this post- I disagree entirely on Chinese Checkers. I'm not kissing ass or anything, I legitimately enjoy that map. Granted, I've only played on it a few times but it does provide rather unique gameplay and easily deserves a place in the maps. A lot of luck is eliminated with the amount of equal bonus opportunities, something I feel is important with the current high ranked player:noobs ratio.
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Re: When good mapmakers make bad maps.

Postby InkL0sed on Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:42 pm

Funny how you're basically saying the same thing I said in my editorial, but in the opposite way.

Clearly, I agree.
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