USA Map Pack [Quenched]

[pamoa]

Being a resident of South Carolina, I must disagree with the sailboats as its thematic symbol. The palmetto tree would be right nice, here's the state flag and an actual picture for some assistance on what to change it to:

And would would it be for Florida ?

[WidowMakers]

Thnaks but we are not doing teh symbols right now. I will be more than happy to go over those after the bonuses, borders, colors and cities are set.

[WidowMakers]

Southwest:

legend order

Arizona - New Mexico
Oklahoma - Arkansas
Texas - Louisiana

Southeaest:

legend order

Tennessee
North Carolina
Mississippi
Alabama
Georgia
South Carolina
Florida

Thanks for the icon suggestions. We will get to those after the other stuff I mentioned int eh previous post.

Now onto the Legend Order.
I positioned them the current order for two reasons.
1) Left to right (mostly)
2) To keep teh base colors as far apart as possible.

In both legends now, the base colors do not border each other (there are three base colors for each). I thought it was more important to keep the colors separate on the map and makeup for that in the legends by arranging them accordingly.

If it is really an issue we can always discuss it again but only after the colors are set and we know what to adjust.

Thanks

[TaCktiX]

Being a resident of South Carolina, I must disagree with the sailboats as its thematic symbol. The palmetto tree would be right nice, here's the state flag and an actual picture for some assistance on what to change it to:

And would would it be for Florida ?

There is a BIG difference between a generic palm tree and the palmetto. There is a lot of historical significance behind the tree for our state. Link here for the primary ones.

EDIT: WM, Charleston is in the middle of the coast, not down there near Savannah. Please fix or else a lot of historically minded Charlestonians will ream you forevermore.

[WidowMakers]

AWest: Worries me.
1. Three continents basically the same size and have the same bonuses (currently) but drastically differently situations.

a. Washington - 6 terr but only 1 border. I don't think this is worth 3 when you compare it to Nevada and Oregon. I'd go with 2 but the 1 border thing worries me
b. Oregon / Nevada: basically the same. Oregon borders all 3 states but you can hold both it and Wash. Nevada allows you to get the highway 80 bonus in addition to nevada very easily. these bonuses seem fine.
c. California - again only 3 borders but you've got 8 terr. 5 seems fine.

2. Washington only having 1 border. I don't really like it. Might be good to put a road from Pendleton to Kennewick. Then you can keep Oregon at 3 with the 2 borders and increase washington to 4.

3. highways. the 80 is basically Nevada+++. one more territory and you get an extra +3. too strong? The 5 is basically an end of game only continent. do we want that on such a small map?

BSouthwest: seems like it works
1. we want oklahoma to be 3 because a bunch of 2 bonuses might not be fun. But, I think adding a border from Boise City to Amarillo makes sense logically (they're just so close) and it give OK 3 borders and 5 terr which seems a lot more like a +3 to me than a 2 border 5 terr continent (also because it only borders 2 continents). Plus it makes the +5 for Texas make more sense right? Maybe I'm wrong here?

CRockies: rockin'
my only qualms are with the Highway bonuse

-90 is 7 terr and can be held with only 5 terr but 2 terr if you hold the north
-70 is 6 terr and can be held with only 2 terr quite easily
-25 is 6 terr and can be held with only 5 terr

but, the bonuses are 7, 6, 5 respectively

furthermore, the 25 is in the middle of the map. it's not going to be added to someone holding an area already. the 70 is going to be very strong for someone holding the south. it's the easiest to hold and should be the smallest bonus. +4

the 90 is the northern power. lots of terr so I'd still give it +5

the 25 intersects with both the 90 and the 70 and will not likely be held by someone dominating an area of the map. it needs a bonus to reflect this. +6

DSoutheast

Miss - 2
Tenn - 3
Al - 3
Geo - 5
Flo - 5
So Ca -3
No Ca - 3

Too many 3's? I agree.

Al is a 3-4 straddler. A naughty one. What? nothing. I'd like to give it a 4 but being so easy to hold that and Miss - 2 makes me say, "No way I can give an area a +6 with 2 borders and 9 territories when Florida is 10 territories with 3 borders and we're only giving it a +5." Maybe Montgomery to Columbus and it can be a 4? Not sure that's a smart attack route to add though. Maybe add a Memphis to Grenada route and you can make Tenn a +4 and keep Miss at 2. I like that actually. Asheville to Dalton might make sense too. That might make No Ca a 4 simply because it makes expansion harder. plus it's a better route addition to Georgia than Columbus. Florida is tough. 10 terr and +5 but only 3 borders. Not much we can do 'bout that though.

EGreat Lakes

Minn - 2
Iowa - 2
Ill - 3
Miss - 2
Del - 1
Wis - 3
Ind - 2
We Vi - 2
Ken -3
Mich - 5
Oh - 4
Ma - 2
Virgin - 3

80 is probably worth the same as the 64 and the 70 right? +5 or +6 seems fine.

FNew England

NY - 6
Penn - 3
NJ - 2
Mass - 3
Con - 1 or 2 hmmm. ok same as Ver so 2
RI - 1
Ver - 2
NH - 2
Maine - 2

feels a bit weird in that West way. We've got NJ, Maine, Ver, NH, Conn which are all +2. Seems unfair to Maine and NJ to be +2 when other places have 1 less terr than you. Oh well I guess you can't do much about it. Should be interesting because of so many tiny continents.

OK here goes
A
1) So you think I should make Wash +2 and keep the 1 border
2) Add another border between Wash and Oreg. But then Oregon had 4 borders. so it get +4 and Wash gets +3 (you switched them in your writeup)
3)Make Highway 80 only +2 or make 80 go to San Fran and Keep +3

B
OK That makes sense. Oklahoma is now not too strong and Texas has another border city but not another border increase (still at 4)

C
I know there was a desire to break up the overlapping interstates of 90 and 25. I will see what I can do. If these stay then I think your bonus suggestions are closer to the right amount. TBD

D
If we add a Memphis/Grenada Route Miss will need to increase to 3. A 4 tert/3 border bonus in worth more than 2. Especially since Tenn will be a 5 tert/3 border worth 4.
Miss - 2
Tenn - 3
Al - 3
Geo - 5
Flo - 5
So Ca -3
No Ca - 4

How about that and just add Asheville to Dalton, then increase No Car to 4.

E
As far as I can tell it looks good.

F
I think this will be debated for a bit.
STATE[Cities / Borders] = Bonus
Maine [4 / 2] = 2
NY [7 / 5] = 6
Penn [5 / 3] = 4
NJ [4 /2] = 3
Mass [4 /2] = 3
Con [3 /2] = 2
RI [2 /1] = 1
Ver [3 /3] = 3
NH [3 /2] = 2


thanks ed.

WM

[edbeard]

NEW ENGLAND: yea I think all those 2's will work well in New England. not sure if that came across clearly in my post or not since I came to that conclusion as I was typing away.


SOUTHEAST: sorry about my mixup in the Southeast. I forgot about the 2nd border in the south for Miss when I was giving the second part of my analysis there. So you're going to just leave those borders as they are (not put the Memphis/Grenada) but put the Asheville-Dalton one in? if that's so then those bonuses make sense to me.


WEST: I think it'd be better to add the extra border between Wash and Oregon and make 80 go to San Fran. I'm still concerned about the 5 being a useless bonus on this small map. maybe there's no real way to fix that without truncating the 5 which wouldn't make much sense since it's a major highway on the west coast. all of these bonuses are tough because it's a quite small map. I'm only one man though so someone else needs to chime in about all this.

[pamoa]

at least try this order because North Carolina upper right angle and down bottom of the list is very confusing

North Carolina
Tennessee
Mississippi
Alabama
Georgia
South Carolina
Florida

There is a BIG difference between a generic palm tree and the palmetto

But my question was, as you are so informed about those south east states, what do you propose for Florida ?

[iancanton]

a mouse with big ears?

ian.

[TaCktiX]

But my question was, as you are so informed about those south east states, what do you propose for Florida ?

I appreciate the blanket generalization there, but Florida IS called the Sunshine State, so a lovely tropical sun should do the trick.

[InkL0sed]

New England should be called the Northeast.

[pamoa]

But my question was, as you are so informed about those south east states, what do you propose for Florida ?

a mouse with big ears?

... Florida IS called the Sunshine State, so a lovely tropical sun should do the trick.

I prefer the ian suggestion, I love the idea of a state producing tons and tons of lovely mouse with big ears

[WidowMakers]

New England should be called the Northeast.

it is called New England because that is the bonus name on the current USA map.

[WidowMakers]

Updates based on edbeards bonus figures and connection suggestions
Version 6 WEST


Version 4 SOUTHWEST


Version 7 SOUTHEAST


Version 12 GREAT LAKES

[WidowMakers]

I will try to get the NE and Rockies redrawn by this weekend.

WM

[gimil]

On the southwestern map in the state capitals legends could I ask that you bump over the '+5 for all' a few spaces to the right to give is space from the '+3 for 5'. And could I ask the same on the southeast map? The '+6 for all' is a little to close to '+4 for 6'.

Also on the southeast, can you pleas ecurve the attack line between daytona beach and west palm beach? Just for the sake of making that attack line a little more noticeable please?

That should be enought out of me for today. I love the look of these maps WM and they all compliment each other beautifully.

[yeti_c]

On the southwestern map in the state capitals legends could I ask that you bump over the '+5 for all' a few spaces to the right to give is space from the '+3 for 5'. And could I ask the same on the southeast map? The '+6 for all' is a little to close to '+4 for 6'.

Also on the southeast, can you pleas ecurve the attack line between daytona beach and west palm beach? Just for the sake of making that attack line a little more noticeable please?

That should be enought out of me for today. I love the look of these maps WM and they all compliment each other beautifully.

Yeah agree with those couple of points - especially the Daytona beach one - it's because it's parrallel to the border of the state.

C.

[pamoa]

In South-West between Arkansas and Louisiana, I think it would be better if you change the connection road from Hope-Shreveport to Hope-Monroe so Louisiana will have 2 entry point the same as Arkansas for the same bonus.

[WidowMakers]

In South-West between Arkansas and Louisiana, I think it would be better if you change the connection road from Hope-Shreveport to Hope-Monroe so Louisiana will have 2 entry point the same as Arkansas for the same bonus.

We could do that but that is the same as Oceania and South America. Same bonus but SA has 2 borders.

[WidowMakers]

On the southwestern map in the state capitals legends could I ask that you bump over the '+5 for all' a few spaces to the right to give is space from the '+3 for 5'. And could I ask the same on the southeast map? The '+6 for all' is a little to close to '+4 for 6'.

Also on the southeast, can you pleas ecurve the attack line between daytona beach and west palm beach? Just for the sake of making that attack line a little more noticeable please?

That should be enought out of me for today. I love the look of these maps WM and they all compliment each other beautifully.

Yeah agree with those couple of points - especially the Daytona beach one - it's because it's parrallel to the border of the state.

C.

Here you go.

Version 5 SOUTHWEST


Version 8 SOUTHEAST

[pamoa]

In South-West between Arkansas and Louisiana, I think it would be better if you change the connection road from Hope-Shreveport to Hope-Monroe so Louisiana will have 2 entry point the same as Arkansas for the same bonus.

We could do that but that is the same as Oceania and South America. Same bonus but SA has 2 borders.

Right but you are not obliged to repeat a non-optimal solution.

[iancanton]

West: Worries me.

1. Three continents basically the same size and have the same bonuses (currently) but drastically differently situations.

a. Washington - 6 terr but only 1 border. I don't think this is worth 3 when you compare it to Nevada and Oregon. I'd go with 2 but the 1 border thing worries me

b. Oregon / Nevada: basically the same. Oregon borders all 3 states but you can hold both it and Wash. Nevada allows you to get the highway 80 bonus in addition to nevada very easily. these bonuses seem fine.

2. Washington only having 1 border. I don't really like it. Might be good to put a road from Pendleton to Kennewick. Then you can keep Oregon at 3 with the 2 borders and increase washington to 4.

WEST: I think it'd be better to add the extra border between Wash and Oregon and make 80 go to San Fran.

good analysis, edbeard. i agree with ur original feeling that the washington bonus is a +2 and not a +3. being connected to only one other state makes it the most desirable starting position by far. with the extra connection to washington, oregon (which is the only state that can be attacked directly by all others) becomes even more difficult to hold, possibly more so than even california, and is worthy of a +4 bonus. the state capitals will usually be ignored, since +3 isn't so hot; the +1 for holding three will sometimes be taken, but a +4 or even +5 bonus is needed for anyone even to think about taking the fourth capital, since splitting up ur forces like this can often prove to be fatal on a small map - big risk deserves big reward.

ian.

[WidowMakers]

Version 4 New England
UPDATED GFX

[AceArtemis]

In South-West between Arkansas and Louisiana, I think it would be better if you change the connection road from Hope-Shreveport to Hope-Monroe so Louisiana will have 2 entry point the same as Arkansas for the same bonus.

We could do that but that is the same as Oceania and South America. Same bonus but SA has 2 borders.

Right but you are not obliged to repeat a non-optimal solution.

The difference is that here, Louisiana has an easy place to expand to. On the Classic map, Australia can only expand into Asia, which is a very difficult place to hold.

[iancanton]

Version 4 New England
UPDATED GFX

the initial distribution of state capitals in a 1v1 game (the most common type) is likely to be 4-3-2, 5-3-1, 4-4-1, 5-2-2 or 3-3-3. the balance of this map will therefore be helped greatly if the bonuses for holding 4 and 5 capitals are eliminated, with the others being adjusted accordingly.

swap the names of vermont and new hampshire with each other, since they are the wrong way round.

rather than st albans (not st albins), how about putting in burlington, which is much larger and better-known (especially for those of us who've considered using burlington airport as an alternative to montréal trudeau)?

plattsburgh has an h on the end and isn't plattsburg. this was the scene of a famous american victory in the war of 1812.

massachusetts has a city called worcester, not worchester.

ian.

[WidowMakers]

Version 4 New England
UPDATED GFX

the initial distribution of state capitals in a 1v1 game (the most common type) is likely to be 4-3-2, 5-3-1, 4-4-1, 5-2-2 or 3-3-3. the balance of this map will therefore be helped greatly if the bonuses for holding 4 and 5 capitals are eliminated, with the others being adjusted accordingly.

swap the names of vermont and new hampshire with each other, since they are the wrong way round.

rather than st albans (not st albins), how about putting in burlington, which is much larger and better-known (especially for those of us who've considered using burlington airport as an alternative to montréal trudeau)?

plattsburgh has an h on the end and isn't plattsburg. this was the scene of a famous american victory in the war of 1812.

massachusetts has a city called worcester, not worchester.

ian.

Version 5 New England
Fixed all of errors and adjustments Ian found. (page 19)